WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else
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@flabdablet said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
That's actually not fair. A Debian update package is a complete installation package, not any kind of diff.
Compared to Windows 10, where it downloads a full OS image.
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@TimeBandit Again, that's a little unfair. Most Windows updates are nowhere near the size of the Windows 10 update.
Windows's model is more like Debian Stable than Testing, in that updating from one release of Stable to the next also involves a massive download session that replaces essentially all packages.
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
So, they looked at how Debian update and took some notes ?
Or they used their fucking common sense and took some notes.
Not that the design matters since they'll fuck up the implementation in 50 different ways.
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@flabdablet said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@TimeBandit Again, that's a little unfair. Most Windows updates are nowhere near the size of the Windows 10 update.
Windows's model is more like Debian Stable than Testing, in that updating from one release of Stable to the next also involves a massive download session that replaces essentially all packages.
To use your words: that's a little unfair.
Updating Debian from one release to the other is like upgrading from Windows 8 to Windows 10.
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@flabdablet said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@TimeBandit Again, that's a little unfair. Most Windows updates are nowhere near the size of the Windows 10 update.
Windows's model is more like Debian Stable than Testing, in that updating from one release of Stable to the next also involves a massive download session that replaces essentially all packages.
To use your words: that's a little unfair.
Updating Debian from one release to the other is like upgrading from Windows 8 to Windows 10.A progressive loss of control?
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Updating Debian from one release to the other is like upgrading from Windows 8 to Windows 10
...which was my point. It's only on that kind of update where Windows Update will download what's essentially an entire system image. Most of the time, an update is only replacing a handful of .exe and .dll files and messing with a bit of config, just like apt does when pulling in security updates (or new package versions for Testing or Unstable).
My beefs with Windows Update are not so much the underlying update model, which is reasonable; when it works, it even handles recovering from failed updates more elegantly than Debian does. What I loathe and detest about it are (a) the ridiculous complexity of the implementation and (b) the incredible amount of battery it chews through and (c) how insanely slow it is. Oh, and the restarting. But that's more Windows's fault than Windows Update's.
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@flabdablet said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
it even handles recovering from failed updates more elegantly than Debian does.
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@TimeBandit WHEN IT WORKS. Which is only some of the time, obviously.
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@anonymous234 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
So, um, is Microsoft finally replacing Windows Update?
From the blog:
A differential download package contains only the changes that have been made since the last time you updated your device, rather than a full build.
So, they looked at how Debian update and took some notes ?
sudo apt-get update -windows-update
?
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@Dreikin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
sudo apt-get update -windows-update
?From the same blog post:
With UUP, we now have logic in the client that can automatically fallback to what we call a “canonical” build
Ubuntu indeed
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@Dreikin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@flabdablet said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@TimeBandit Again, that's a little unfair. Most Windows updates are nowhere near the size of the Windows 10 update.
Windows's model is more like Debian Stable than Testing, in that updating from one release of Stable to the next also involves a massive download session that replaces essentially all packages.
To use your words: that's a little unfair.
Updating Debian from one release to the other is like upgrading from Windows 8 to Windows 10.A progressive loss of control?
The 🚻 is
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@flabdablet said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
(b) the incredible amount of battery it chews through and (c) how insanely slow it is
I would guess that these are closely related, and might be because some lunatic is StoogeSorting the list of things to add after every step. Or something equally stupid. The speed and the power usage problems are probably the same thing gone wrong.
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@dkf It's to encourage you to buy new hardware. (No trolleybus because knowing Microsoft this is exactly what they would do.)
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So, my Windows 10 just updated the (Nvidia) graphics driver and told me I need to restart the computer. I shut down the computer a while later (not because of this), then when I booted it up again, bam, 800x600 screen.
I go check Windows Update, and surprise, it still says I need to restart. I restart. Everything works again.
So I guess, since shutting down and starting up is no longer the same as a reboot, it somehow killed the old driver but failed to install the new one.
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@anonymous234 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
So I guess, since shutting down and starting up is no longer the same as a reboot
Hasn't been since Windows 8. Shutting down is somewhat similar to hibernating in Windows 10.
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@anonymous234 Odd that it asked for a reboot. On my PC, it just restarts the card without needing a reboot. Then again, I've been using GeForce Experience to update the drivers.
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@RaceProUK said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Then again, I've been using GeForce Experience to update the drivers.
No reboot required on mine even installing the drivers without GeForce Experience.
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Should I break it to her that it's not our choice when the auto-restarts happen?
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@asdf said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Shutting down is somewhat similar to hibernating in Windows 10.
Indeed. And as this causes endless issues for dual-boot configurations that need to access a shut-down Windows partition from an alternate system, it's worth knowing how to turn that off.
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@asdf said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Shutting down is somewhat similar to hibernating in Windows 10.
To be ic, it shuts down userspace and hibernates kernelspace.
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@anonymous234 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
So, my Windows 10 just updated the (Nvidia) graphics driver and told me I need to restart the computer. I shut down the computer a while later (not because of this), then when I booted it up again, bam, 800x600 screen.
I go check Windows Update, and surprise, it still says I need to restart. I restart. Everything works again.
So I guess, since shutting down and starting up is no longer the same as a reboot, it somehow killed the old driver but failed to install the new one.
How did you shut it down? When a restart is needed, the "Shut down" option is always replaced with "Update and shut down".
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@marczellm I may have used the shutdown button on my keyboard (yeah it has one of those).
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Did Micro-Soft realized forced-update may not be such a good idea after all ?
Also, a real improvement
Microsoft is also giving users an easier way to connect to a virtual private network. Once Windows 10 has a user's VPN settings loaded, it's possible to activate the connection with the tap of a button without opening up VPN settings.
Like what I get when I click on the network icon in KDE's
system traynotification area ?Keep up the good work MS, soon you'll have something close to KDE's user-friendliness
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Did Micro-Soft realized forced-update may not be such a good idea after all ?
Also, a real improvement
Microsoft is also giving users an easier way to connect to a virtual private network. Once Windows 10 has a user's VPN settings loaded, it's possible to activate the connection with the tap of a button without opening up VPN settings.
The build allows folks with the Windows 10 Professional, Education, and Enterprise versions to defer new updates for up to 35 days. In addition, the company will allow those users to decide whether or not they want to include driver updates when they want to update Windows.
That's been present for a while, but only for OS feature updates. Looks like it's being expanded to all updates now.
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@TimeBandit didn't they say that about the scummy w10 upgrades? And then they went back on that promise
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@bb36e said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@TimeBandit didn't they say that about the scummy w10 upgrades? And then they went back on that promise
Micro-Soft always respect its promise
And they will certainly deliver on this one
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Keep up the good work MS, soon you'll have something close to KDE's user-friendliness
I'm told that X-like primary selection clipboards would cause Windows to crash and explode your monitor.
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@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Keep up the good work MS, soon you'll have something close to KDE's user-friendliness
I'm told that X-like primary selection clipboards would cause Windows to crash and explode your monitor.
No, no, no, no, no! You couldn't be more wrong! It would make Windows explode and crash your monitor! Everyone knows that!
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@RaceProUK said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
No, no, no, no, no! You couldn't be more wrong!
This sounds like a challenge.
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
system traynotification areaI know it's what it's called (in Windows at least), but every time I read that correction I can't help thinking of a smart-ass response like "hey, I'm being notified that I have a sound volume I can adjust!"
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@RaceProUK said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
No, no, no, no, no! You couldn't be more wrong!
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@Lorne-Kates said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@anonymous234 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
So, um, is Microsoft finally replacing Windows Update?
They're replacing it with Windows Update Edge, which is a
pathetic crayon reskinground-up rewrite of Windows Update. Itre-implementsfixes all the mistakes that Windows Update accumulated over the years.I've tried a couple of the recent Insider Preview builds and Windows Update seems to be even more broken than before. Just trying to look at Windows Update crashes with the wonderful error message:
"The C++ runtime has requested to terminate in an unusual manner"
18 months in and they still can't get their shit together.
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Did Micro-Soft realized forced-update may not be such a good idea after all ?
Also, a real improvement
Microsoft is also giving users an easier way to connect to a virtual private network. Once Windows 10 has a user's VPN settings loaded, it's possible to activate the connection with the tap of a button without opening up VPN settings.
Like what I get when I click on the network icon in KDE's
system traynotification area ?Keep up the good work MS, soon you'll have something close to KDE's user-friendliness
Wait, VPN connections don't have that in their connection card thing? Huh, TIL.
Then again, I use the DirectAccess thing (rarely) and it doesn't work anyways, so
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Did Micro-Soft realized forced-update may not be such a good idea after all ?
No, not really:
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defer new updates for up to 35 days
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users can steer clear of updates they don’t want to install yet (what's likely to change in 30 days?)
As an extra bonus, the most recent Insider build has Narration turned on by default during installation. It's bad enough that Windows sets your speaker volume to 80% during installation, which gives you a nasty surprise the first time you do something that generates sound. Now it's going to talk at you as well.
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@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Now it's going to talk at you as well.
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@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I'm told that X-like primary selection clipboards would cause Windows to crash and explode your monitor.
No, just confuse people who aren't used to it. I've never really seen the point and can't think of any situations off the top of my head where having another clipboard, especially one that could be cleared by clicking and dragging in the wrong place, would have made my live easier
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@Jaloopa said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I've never really seen the point and can't think of any situations off the top of my head where having another clipboard, especially one that could be cleared by clicking and dragging in the wrong place, would have made my live easier
I see you've never tried one handed computing. That context menu takes forever to use, and requires you to be really accurate
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@bb36e pasting the exact search terms you need?
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@Jaloopa one time I pasted all over the keyboard
But really, I've found it to be handy for things like copying text between two side by side documents. It's really not a must-have IMO
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@Jaloopa said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
No, just confuse people who aren't used to it.
This doesn't seem to be a thing Microsoft worries about in the evolution of the UI any more.
@Jaloopa said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I've never really seen the point and can't think of any situations off the top of my head where having another clipboard, especially one that could be cleared by clicking and dragging in the wrong place, would have made my live easier
Filed Under: Blub
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Urgh.
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Urgh.
Shit, I feel like I'm missing so much by not using Windows 10
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Really? Ads in an OS you paid at least $80 for is fine? What are you smoking? Whatever it is, I don't want any.
YES.
I do and I do, so long as the prices are reasonable, and I don't get adverts.
So, Home users (who, btw, have also paid for Windows) should have ads, but us 'elites' with Pro shouldn't? Why do you hate users of Home?
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Urgh.
Shit, I feel like I'm missing so much by not using Windows 10
If I knew Win10 was going to go this way, I might have switched to Linux from Windows 8.1 instead of upgrading to 10.
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@RaceProUK What's stopping you?
Linux is still a completely different landscape where you might lose your bearings, but it's not like you can't switch at any moment...
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@JBert said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@RaceProUK What's stopping you?
Games, mostly.
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@RaceProUK In my case its games and more, as even Xfce's WM starts bothering me after just a few hours.
Running Arch when dual-booting might also have something to do with it...
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Sounds like our Prime Decider is working to fight through IT and get my team W10, which will be convenient since we're working with windows containers.
I expect many problems, but then my PC explodes every half second even on W7.
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@RaceProUK said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Ads in an OS you paid at least $80 for is fine?
Hey, plenty of suckers pay around that much per month for cable or satellite TV...