The thread of movie titles and absence of badges. In previous episodes, it was signs you're getting older, chiropractic vs. medicine, atheism vs. Mormonism and religion vs. science with no existentialism nor philosophy thrown in
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I have a friend who is a chiropractor. He is also a fully licensed family practice M.D. You can't tell me all chiropractors are frauds.
Yes I can. You can choose not to believe my assertion, but you cannot say that I cannot tell you that.
All chiropractors are frauds.
You said it could not be done.
In all fairness, I do believe that most of them believe they are doing good work. They are just wrong about that. They are quacks. The truly corrupt know they are quacks. Presumably your friend does not.
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You never crack your neck or your back?
Of course I do. Not nearly as much after I had my spine surgery. But yes I do. I am just not foolish enough to pay someone to do so for me. I can do so, myself, with nothing more than a tense twist or arching over a chair back. No quacks required.
Sorry, but it ain't a placebo when the chiropractor pops one of my ribs and my left arm magically becomes stronger and not in pain anymore
Go see a real doctor, who might actually fix said condition instead of just maintaining it in order to make his Porsche payment.
a chiropractor is able to diagnose a car accident from 15 years prior via X-Ray and then show me a new X-Ray
Did you sign a consent to treat prior to...you know...him treating you? Part of those entitles them to a review of your medical records. It is not a real miracle. It is a "miracle" just like circus tent evangelists perform every day. As I said, most chiropractors are good salespeople.
show me a new X-Ray a year later where my spine is visibly less messed up.
Are you qualified to read a radiograph? I am not. I work with Doctors who are not. Real ones. Not quacks. They send their radiographs to professionals to read. They will tell you that they can make a loose approximation, but would absolutely never make a diagnosis based upon their interpretation. We maintain systems that their only purpose is to send x-rays from Dr's offices to specialists that read them. So, no, I do not believe that you can actually ascertain whether or not your spine was:
visibly less messed up
No offense meant. I am just being realistic. I also fully admit that I would also not be able to make such a judgment call myself. I leave that to professionals, as I am not qualified. Seriously, this is not a personal attack. I am merely stating our limitations.
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Go see a real doctor, who might actually fix said condition instead of just maintaining it in order to make his Porsche payment.
Because a "real" doctor would probably do spinal fusion and/or prescribe a ton of drugs which could easily cause more problems than it's worth, and is far more risk than it's worth. I even know someone who had back surgery that made things worse, and afterwards only chiropractic was able to give him a normal life.
Did you sign a consent to treat prior to...you know...him treating you? Part of those entitles them to a review of your medical records. It is not a real miracle. It is a "miracle" just like circus tent evangelists perform every day. As I said, most chiropractors are good salespeople.
Yes, I signed a consent form, just like any medical practice. The car accident was not in my medical records because I didn't know I had an injury and never saw a doctor about anything. We all walked away from it.
Are you qualified to read a radiograph? I am not. I work with Doctors who are not. Real ones. Not quacks. They send their radiographs to professionals to read. They will tell you that they can make a loose approximation, but would absolutely never make a diagnosis based upon their interpretation. We maintain systems that their only purpose is to send x-rays from Dr's offices to specialists that read them. So, no, I do not believe that you can actually ascertain whether or not your spine was:
I'm not qualified to read radiographs, but I can see when something isn't right compared to an ideal model. And I can also tell when something has visibly moved closer to the ideal model. In my case I had two vertebrae in my lower back that were at a very funny angle to each other, and a year later they were nearly normal.
(To be fair there was more than just spinal adjustments, the guy had me doing all kinds of physical therapy too to stretch out some muscles and ligaments and train my posture to be better, but without spinal adjustments the posture thing was very difficult to manage. And he was taught all of the therapy techniques at chiropractic school.)
No offense meant. I am just being realistic. I also fully admit that I would also not be able to make such a judgment call myself. I leave that to professionals, as I am not qualified. Seriously, this is not a personal attack. I am merely stating our limitations.
No offense taken. I'm a big boy who's not easily rankled
I originally went because of lower back issues. That's pretty much solved now, through years of chiropractic and physical therapy, now I just have mid/upper back issues mainly because I'm sedentary and losing the muscle mass I had from growing up on a farm. Tends to cause skeletal issues when muscle groups become imbalanced. Really I need to exercise and work out more, but chiropractic is able to fix my pinched nerve immediately when I throw something out (and I always know immediately when I cause whatever it is to slip).
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Because a real doctor would probably do spinal fusion or something which would cause more problems than it's worth, and is far more risk than it's worth. I even know someone who had back surgery that made things worse, and afterwards only chiropractic was able to give him a normal life.
Yeah, well, anecdotes do not equal data. I had spinal fusion surgery and I am as near to 100% as I can tell. Chiropractors did not do anything for me. I tried. I would have tried anything. I finally went to a good doctor and made a full recovery.
To be fair there was more than just spinal adjustments, the guy had me doing all kinds of physical therapy too to stretch out some muscles and ligaments and train my posture to be better
There's the fix. I can tell you right now that if I do not exercise regularly I regress. No spinal adjustments required.
now I just have mid/upper back issues mainly because I'm sedentary and losing the muscle mass I had from growing up on a farm
I feel ya. I am much the same in that regard.
Really I need to exercise and work out more
Presumably everyone in this thread does. It is a part of getting older. ;)
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I'm about to turn 27 and I'm still single, and she keeps telling me about how I was born when she was 27. Kind of depressing and annoying at the same time.
+1
Is it a bad sign if you already start to feel old when you're actually still young?
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Is it a bad sign if you already start to feel old when you're actually still young?
All my cards are on the table with no ace left in the hole
I'm much too young to feel this damn old
Diesel Boy-Much Too Young – 01:55
— TheLandos45
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Because a real doctor would probably do spinal fusion or something which would cause more problems than it's worth, and is far more risk than it's worth. I even know someone who had back surgery that made things worse, and afterwards only chiropractic was able to give him a normal life.
Yeah, well, anecdotes do not equal data. I had spinal fusion surgery and I am as near to 100% as I can tell. Chiropractors did not do anything for me. I tried. I would have tried anything. I finally went to a good doctor and made a full recovery.
A real doctor will try to tell you that your back doesn't really hurt.
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I turn 0x28 today, and started to feel really old when in another thread on this forum people were reminiscing their first computers and got nostalgic over that they only had 16-odd MB of RAM. Mine had 16k...
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My back hurts. Also, male pattern baldness.
ATM | Problems | Wednesdays, 9pm, ABC1 – 02:04
— ABC iview
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I turn 0x28 today, and started to feel really old when in another thread on this forum people were reminiscing their first computers and got nostalgic over that they only had 16-odd MB of RAM. Mine had 16k...
That sounds familiar. Our first computer was a VIC-20. I still remember waiting several minutes for a few hundred lines of code to finish saving to cassette tape.
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...waking up with a dull pain in your lower back/upper ass area, having done nothing of significance other than sleep on memoryfoam or sit in an Aeron for the 24 hours before...
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Yeah, I remember being 20 and being able to do most anything without waking up sore. A few years ago I built a big fence here at our place and at the end of each day I was stiff and sore.
Now 5 years later it can happen and I will have no idea why. My body is not aging well. I should see a chiropractor about that. I hear they can fix anything.
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I really dig going to the barber.
Yeah, but he said "hairdresser", so
You can curse. Drink a beer. Tell coarse jokes.
was probably out.
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You can't tell me all chiropractors are frauds.
If I learned anything from Star Trek, it's that his MD half could be legit and his chiropracter half could be a fraud.
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drink or two every night. I may sound like an alcoholic, but I need something
[Emphasis mine]
I highlighted the only word there that screams "alcoholic". You may have used it the way I do, like sometimes I need a beer when it's hot or I've been working hard or it's a day ending in 'y'. If it's a real need, as in you don't function well without it, you may be an alcoholic.
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Not having kids (for whatever reason) always seems a bit tragic to me.
Some people just don't like kids. Some people think overpopulation is a problem. Some people enjoy time, money and freedom. Some people don't find suitable partners. Some people are infertile. Some people are incapable of parenting and are self-aware enough to avoid having kids. Some people think forcing the world to deal with their brats is selfish.
I'm sure there are other reasons. The only one I listed that I consider a tragedy is infertility.
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I think not having kids is fine as long as you don't steal other people's kids.
But that's just me.It's generally accepted to steal others' kids if you have kids of your own as well.
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The only one I listed that I consider a tragedy is infertility.
The tragedy isn't necessarily the missing kids but the
fucked updamaged non-parent.
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Maybe you spent less time crying over others, others would have less reason to cry over you?
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The tragedy isn't necessarily the missing kids but the fucked up damaged non-parent.
The tragedy is never the missing kids, they don't exist. The tragedy is the grief felt by the infertile who really want kids.
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I don't spend time "crying over others," and I'm not sure why they'd cry over me (you're welcome to if you really want). But I can recognize still recognize stuff.
The tragedy is the grief felt by the infertile who really want kids.
Yes, that is terrible.
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Of course I do. Not nearly as much after I had my spine surgery. But yes I do. I am just not foolish enough to pay someone to do so for me.
Since you had spinal surgery, it is likely you had something severe enough that it was beyond the scope of chiropractic to repair. Now, it would be inadvisable for you to see a chiropractor because it could cause re-injury. It's also a bad idea to have a chiropractic adjustment if you have any damage to a spinal disk. The reason for that is that the adjustment can aggravate the existing damage.
Just like any "traditional" medical treatment, there are times when the treatment will be more damaging than helpful. You have to weigh the costs and benefits before proceeding.
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Since you had spinal surgery, it is likely you had something severe enough that it was beyond the scope of chiropractic to repair.
I get that, but on the advice of friends I saw chiropractors over the years. It was an issue that built for a long while. In the time I was seeing quacks, not a single one of them said, "Maybe you should see a real doctor."
Most of them seem to think their particular brand of snake oil is a panacea that can fix everything. I spent years managing the problem. I finally went and saw a surgeon and was fixed in no time.
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In the time I was seeing quacks,
It's unfortunate that you encountered all quacks.
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don't see how that could possibly be right.
Many people say the same thing about other forms of alternative medicine: acupuncture, reflexology, etc. Chiropractors are still considered "alternative medicine". Alternative medicine that has been proven to work is just called "medicine".
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acupuncture
Even my chiropractors think acupuncture is quackery. And one of them was a licensed acupuncturist though he would never actually do it.
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Some chiropractors aren't quacks. Some accept that they're glorified massage therapists and don't try to claim any more. Osteopaths are slightly closer to respectability
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Even my chiropractors think acupuncture is quackery.
I find that terribly amusing. ;)
And one of them was a licensed acupuncturist
Regardless of whether he would do it or not, he at one point thought there was something to it, which I think also reflects on his choice to become a chiropractor.
Some accept that they're glorified massage therapists and don't try to claim any more.
For those that hold such a belief (I know one, he also does a lot of ergonomics, etc), I do not feel they are quacks.
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Chiropractors are still considered "alternative medicine". Alternative medicine that has been proven to work is just called "medicine".
Yawn. You're just worshiping at the altar of "medicine." I don't consider chiropractors on the same level as doctors either (and I have plenty of skepticism for what often passes for "medicine" these days). As @Jaloopa said, more like massage therapists. I suppose you'll tell me massage is bullshit, too.
Sometimes I can crack my back or neck and get some nice relief. The chiropractor does a much better and consistent job of it, though. That's what I'm paying him for.
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Regardless of whether he would do it or not, he at one point thought there was something to it, which I think also reflects on his choice to become a chiropractor.
AIUI, some states used to/still license the two together. He may not have had a choice.
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I suppose you'll tell me massage is bullshit, too.
Absolutely not. But I do not see it as medicine. I see it as therapeutic and relaxing, and very temporary.
Sometimes I can crack my back or neck and get some nice relief.
I can do the same utilizing the back of the chair or just twisting in place. No need for an appointment or payment.
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I can do the same utilizing the back of the chair or just twisting in place. No need for an appointment or payment.
You're lucky (though I wouldn't trade for your permanent spinal issues). Like I said, I often get some relief from stuff like that, but not as much and not as consistently.
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AIUI, some states used to/still license the two together. He may not have had a choice.
One license for two forms of quackery, it keeps them lumped together. For once, our government is being efficient. ;)
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I wouldn't trade for your permanent spinal issues
I know everyone has an anecdote about someone who had back surgery and ended up worse than they were before, but I am not one of those. I still have mild numbness in one foot (I had partial left-side paralysis when I went to see the surgeon, and no other doctor had ever found that), but other than that I am totally recovered. If I were a religious man, my surgeon would be my son's godfather. If he needed a kidney, he only needs to ask (the liver is pretty used up, or I would give him a chunk of that).
I was up walking the day after surgery. Very slowly, and not without pain, but I was walking. Within a week or so, I was walking over a mile a day as part of my PT. I was off painkillers inside of a month.
I won't say that I never have back pain, but I do not have any more than any other 35 year old man. I laid some tile a year ago in one of our bathrooms and I was stiff the next day, but so was my friend who helped me and had never had back issues. ;)
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I won't say that I never have back pain, but I do not have any more than any other 35 year old man.
OK. From previous posts, it sounded worse.
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It can be, if I do not exercise regularly. I have no point of comparison though, and it gives me good motivation to go to the gym, which is definitely not a bad thing. Well, except that we humans become gerbils with opposable thumbs. They just need big wheels at the gym instead of treadmills and ellipticals.
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I think you're failing to realize that all that posture and such is to straighten the back to reduce strain, fatigue, and keep the bones from settling in an unnatural position.
Bone cracking, isn't necessarily just to pop the bones, but to release the tension and restore flexibility.
If your backbone is settled in an unnatural position, all the posture advice in the world won't help, because the back is not flexible to restore good posture.
I think you need to look at a few x-rays.
We check kids for spinal malformations.
We have spinal surgeons.
Why would going to a therapist who can straighten your back over time, be a bad thing?
I had a neural surgeon tell me that he could do back surgery, but I'd be back in 5 years because it would only delay the problem.
I have a chiropractor that did 2 years of therapy, and then sent me off for a scan which revealed that the slipped disc in my spine had restored its height, and the curve I had to the right side had straightened significantly.
My neck had restored its natural curve, and the bone deterioration had been reduced.How the hell is all that a bad thing?
Some people need surgery and benefit from it.
Some people just need therapy.
There is room for both.I was lucky enough to have an honest enough surgeon to tell me that surgery wasn't a good option for me.
How many quack surgeons perform surgery at every opportunity and think that surgery is the cure-all for back problems. I guarantee you that this is the cause of so many back surgeries gone awry.
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it gives me good motivation to go to the gym,
Yeah, I have no motivation to do that sort of thing. This is one reason why I do martial arts. I get some good workouts and have fun while doing it.
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I have no motivation to do that sort of thing. This is one reason why I do martial arts. I get some good workouts and have fun while doing it.
Whatever works for you to keep you active and to each their own. I have friends who play basketball to get their exercise. I cannot think of anything more dull and boring. I would much rather get on the elliptical and read a book (lower impact than a treadmill). I would certainly do martial arts before basketball.
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you can manage to read on an elliptical?
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How many quack surgeons perform surgery at every opportunity
and think that surgery is the cure-all for back problems.because they get paid regardless of how the surgery works and thanks to the hospital paying their malpractice insurance have not motivation to deny an unneeded procedure.FTFY
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you can manage to read on an elliptical?
with practice, yes you can.
i prefer a treadmill personally but the procedure is quite simmilar.
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you can manage to read on an elliptical?
Kindle app on Android tablet. I bump the text size up just a touch. I also go for higher resistance at a slower speed, so maybe that helps?
Or, sometimes I just pull up Youtube or Hulu and watch something mindless. Depends on the day.
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Back to the topic: Another sign I am getting older...rogue hairs. Back of my arms, etc. I went to the barber the other day and he shaved my neckline down to my collar. When I was younger, that was sufficient. Now there is another 3-4" down my back.
A year or so ago, I looked in the mirror and noticed something strange. A solitary hair growing right out of the middle of my forehead. Just one. I plucked it and thankfully it has not come back, or invited friends to the party.
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A solitary hair growing right out of the middle of my forehead.
I get these. I refer to them as my proceeding hair line. It seems like they pop out of nowhere. We never seem to notice them until they are nearly an inch long.
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We never seem to notice them until they are nearly an inch long.
That was probably the length of this one. That was what surprised me most. How the hell could I not notice it as it grew to that length??
