Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
-
@perverted_vixen said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@benjamin-hall said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@tsaukpaetra said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@el_heffe said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@anonymous234 said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
I always thought Windows should just try to detect any deviations from the standard (no matter how small) and pop up a message like
Warning: the NVIDIA driver for your NVIDIA device has returned an internal error. Your NVIDIA device or driver might be faulty. Please contact NVIDIA for a replacement or a fix
And Nvidia will say it's Microsoft's fault.
Then what?
Cat fight! With Mud!
Does Nvidia have a kawaii mascot like the Windows-chan (if those are even a thing anymore)? If so, that might work. Otherwise, no one wants to see the stereotypical programmer mud-wrestle.
I dunno...... I mean you're right about the 180kg programmer stereotype, but the 75kg programmers that you actually find in the dojo after work.... yeah that one would be worth watching. with popcorn..... and maybe joining them in the showers after......
But how many programmers are going to the dojo? If I had thought that those were an appreciable fraction of Microsoft or Nvidia employees, I'd have phrased things differently.
-
@boomzilla Works for me. Shut down and startup are faster, and I've encountered no side effects. If you have a weird corner case like having two OSes on a single hard drive then I guess you need to change the settings from the default that works for 99% of users
-
@benjamin-hall said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
But how many programmers are going to the dojo?
i only need two to get a good exhibition match.
-
@jaloopa said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@boomzilla Works for me. Shut down and startup are faster, and I've encountered no side effects. If you have a weird corner case like having two OSes on a single hard drive then I guess you need to change the settings from the default that works for 99% of users
Nah, only one OS these days. Life is much better.
-
@boomzilla Yeah, Windows 10 does remove the need for other operating systems
-
@benjamin-hall said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
But how many programmers are going to the dojo?
And how many of those are Boomzilla-alts?
-
@jaloopa said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@boomzilla Yeah, Windows 10 does remove the need for other operating systems
You might want to have a doctor check that out for you.
-
@cark said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
The thing that gets me is that the C drive isn't marked as "clean" or however it's done with a proper shutdown, so Linux won't touch the partition.
AIUI that's because it's not clean - the system isn't actually shut down, it's merely hibernated-ish. So allowing things to edit the disk could be very bad
-
@sloosecannon Working as designed
-
@boomzilla said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@jaloopa said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@boomzilla Yeah, Windows 10 does remove the need for other operating systems
You might want to have a doctor check that out for you.
In the UK, most doctors still use XP
-
@jaloopa said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@sloosecannon Working as designed
Pretty much.
-
@neighborhoodbutcher said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@blakeyrat said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@neighborhoodbutcher said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
It's not only Chrome. I see other applications being already started when I log in,
99% of the time when people say "log in" they really mean "computer woke from sleep".
You're already logged-in at that point, you're just unlocking your screen. So yeah, it makes perfect sense that your applications are running just the same way they were when you put the machine to sleep, that's how it's all supposed to work.
Like I said, the only mild surprise here is that applications not currently being displayed can play audio. But I can see a lot of use-cases where you'd want that behavior, so.
I don't put my system to sleep, so by "log in" I mean "log in".
Blakey assumes everyone is retarded. Blakey gets mad when others assume he is retarded.
-
@steve_the_cynic said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
And this whole sorry episode sounds like they've changed the default from "shut down" to "sleep".
I remember hearing that that is true. But it happened a while ago... (don't remember when)
-
@dcon said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@steve_the_cynic said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
And this whole sorry episode sounds like they've changed the default from "shut down" to "sleep".
I remember hearing that that is true. But it happened a while ago... (don't remember when)
My machine is on the original Creator's Edition, and it still has "sleep" separate from "shut down". It behaves differently - in both cases, the case lights go out and the fans stop, but in sleep, the "power" light blinks and the machine wakes up rapidly to an "unlock me" screen, while in "shut down", the power light doesn't blink, and the machine powers up through the BIOS screen and a normal Windows "log in" screen.
-
@kt_ said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@atazhaia said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Yeah, at this point I would suggest nuking and paving the OS disk. And then preferrably leaving something minty fresh in its place. Ofc, that may not be an option and Windows is needed. In that case refresh/reinstall. Although that wont unfuck the OS either.
Yeah, installing a Linux wouldn’t unfuck the OS, either. If anything, it would probably be even more of a clusterfuck.
Also, if hibernation isn't needed I also make a point of disabling that. It frees up some HDD space and disables FastBoot all in one go! Otherwise, just disable FastBoot, because it's a pointless piece of shite feature only designed to make Windows look faster.
As mentioned maybe here but definitely elsewhere, Fast Boot is basically Windows logging you off then hibernating the system instead of actually shutting down.
-
@tsaukpaetra said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
It is, though usually that only happened on machines that don't actually support power state 5, and Windows thought you had merely immediately resumed.
All those various power states -- sleep, hibernate, etc. -- have never really worked properly, all the time, on any version of Windows. (If you count on/running and completely shut down, there are 8 different power states )
I've made it standard practice to immediately disable all of it when installing Windows. My computer is either on or off, and I've never found a need for any of those in-between power states.
-
@tsaukpaetra said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@kt_ said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@atazhaia said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Yeah, at this point I would suggest nuking and paving the OS disk. And then preferrably leaving something minty fresh in its place. Ofc, that may not be an option and Windows is needed. In that case refresh/reinstall. Although that wont unfuck the OS either.
Yeah, installing a Linux wouldn’t unfuck the OS, either. If anything, it would probably be even more of a clusterfuck.
Also, if hibernation isn't needed I also make a point of disabling that. It frees up some HDD space and disables FastBoot all in one go! Otherwise, just disable FastBoot, because it's a pointless piece of shite feature only designed to make Windows look faster.
As mentioned maybe here but definitely elsewhere, Fast Boot is basically Windows logging you off then hibernating the system instead of actually shutting down.
I know. The is not about Windows, is about saying it’s “a pointless piece of shite feature”. It’s not. It’s cool. It saves time.
-
@homobalkanus said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@neighborhoodbutcher said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Today, without logging in, I heard YouTube playing from my computer.
That's not really new. It happened to me several times before after I put my laptop to sleep instead of shutting it down. My guess is that it tries to load as much stuff as possible, as soon as possible so you can be amazed with the speed it wakes from sleep
although going against the thread topic, i must add it not only does that, but also re-launches almost all the apps into the state they were in, eveb after it retardedly forcibly update-restart your machine because you weren't moving the mouse and didn't dismiss the restart dialog. so it must mean it's idle.
amongst all the idiotic update fuckery, this one thing is actually really cool
-
@el_heffe said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
have never really worked properly, all the time, on any version of Windows
And Windows works like a charm on that topic compared to Linux.
ACPI is basically complete shit.
-
@anonymous234 said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
I hate defending Windows, but the fact is that 99% of hardware (and its drivers) is a buggy, dysfunctional piece of shit, and most of those weird computer problems come from it.
Remember when Windows users used to laugh at Linux users for blaming hardware manufacturers for shitty and non-existent drivers? Fun times.
-
@el_heffe said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
All those various power states -- sleep, hibernate, etc. -- have never really worked properly, all the time, on any version of Windows.
I've found it's extremely dependent on the underlying hardware.
-
@gwowen said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Remember when Windows users used to laugh at Linux users for blaming hardware manufacturers for shitty and non-existent drivers? Fun times.
Nah, we laughed at Linux because they simply didn't have the drivers for the hardware. We SMASHSMASHSMASH because many of the drivers we have are absolute shite.
-
@gwowen said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Remember when Windows users used to laugh at Linux users for blaming hardware manufacturers for shitty and non-existent drivers? Fun times.
When you have driver issue on Linux, it's Linux fault. And when you have driver issue on Windows, it's the hardware manufacturer's fault.
Except when the hardware manufacturer is Microsoft... then it's Intel's fault
-
@sh_code said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
this one thing is actually really cool
But it's only cool if the app registers itself and handles that appropriately. If not, you don't get the nice new feature.
-
I made a test and disabled fast boot. The OS managed to shut itself down. More testing is required, but I guess I've found the reason.
Congratulations to MS for creating such a dumpsterfire of an OS. They haven't made such a turd since Windows 8.
-
@timebandit said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
When you have driver issue on Linux, it's Linux fault. And when you have driver issue on Windows, it's the hardware manufacturer's fault.
Except when the hardware manufacturer is Microsoft... then it's Intel's faultThe real problem is using Linux hardware
-
@hungrier said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
The real problem is using Linux hardware with Windows
FTFY
It works fine with Linux
-
@timebandit said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@hungrier said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
The real problem is using Linux hardware with Windows
FTFY
It works fine with Linux
Sure, but then you have to use Linux. At that point it's like the cure is worse than the disease
-
@hungrier said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Sure, but then you have to use Linux. At that point it's like the cure is worse than the disease
Sure, because you can't enjoy your computer saying "Fuck you, I'm rebooting"
-
@timebandit See, that's what I'm talking about. How good can Linux be, if it can't even get a simple feature like that working right?
-
@kt_ said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
I know. The is not about Windows, is about saying it’s “a pointless piece of shite feature”. It’s not. It’s cool. It saves time.
If you're running Windows off an SSD as you should, it saves a neglible amount of time. I count 3 seconds at max on my old 2011 hardware with the SSD on a SATA2 port. If you have a modern computer and run Windows off a proper PCIe M.2 SSD I expect the time savings to be nothing.
Also, with a decent amount of RAM the feature requires a lot of HDD space (75% of installed RAM for hibernate), which could end up a non-neglible amount of space if running Windows off an SSD. So, yeah. Explain to me the point of FastBoot for anyone who isn't still running Windows off a mechanical harddrive?
-
@atazhaia said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Explain to me the point of FastBoot for anyone who isn't still running Windows off a mechanical harddrive?
I guess it makes some sense when the hardware enumerator is a buggy pile of shit that tends to take forever to find out that, no, you've not changed what CPU you've got plugged into the mobo of that cheap-ass laptop…
-
@atazhaia said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Also, with a decent amount of RAM the feature requires a lot of HDD space (75% of installed RAM for hibernate), which could end up a non-neglible amount of space if running Windows off an SSD.
That's for sure. After the FCU installed I started getting disk space errors because it'd turned hibernate back on (+ the backup of Windows, multiple copies of Visual Studio, blah blah, goodbye boot SSD space).
Reset the power stuff back to how I'd had it (turn off monitors but nothing else, no sleep, no hibernation) and things are much happier now.
-
@benjamin-hall said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
But how many programmers are going to the dojo?
I also weigh somewhere pretty close to 75kg, if I'm doing the conversion from real units properly.
-
@steve_the_cynic said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
My machine is on the original Creator's Edition, and it still has "sleep" separate from "shut down". It behaves differently - in both cases, the case lights go out and the fans stop, but in sleep, the "power" light blinks and the machine wakes up rapidly to an "unlock me" screen, while in "shut down", the power light doesn't blink, and the machine powers up through the BIOS screen and a normal Windows "log in" screen.
why exactly did you feel it necessary to describe what everyone already knows?
-
@atazhaia said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Explain to me the point of FastBoot for anyone who isn't still running Windows off a mechanical harddrive?
those people actually exist, you know? Only my computer geek friends and IT professionals use SSDs AFAIK.
-
@marczellm That's why I said what I said. I've only seen a benefit of using FastBoot with a mechanical drive, so for them it's nice I suppose. I cannot see any benefits using it with an SSD however.
-
@perverted_vixen said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
180kg
I don't speak European.
-
@pie_flavor It's an international standard unit of measurement, not exclusive to Europe.
-
@luhmann said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@benjamin-hall said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
But how many programmers are going to the dojo?
And how many of those are Boomzilla-alts?
Boomzilla alts exist in real life now? That's somewhat scary.
-
@lb_ said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@pie_flavor It's an international standard unit of measurement, not exclusive to Europe.
'Murica. *folds arms*
-
@timebandit said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@hungrier said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Sure, but then you have to use Linux. At that point it's like the cure is worse than the disease
Sure, because you can't enjoy your computer saying "Fuck you, I'm rebooting"
Anyone know where the language file is? I want mine to literally say that.
-
@neighborhoodbutcher said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
I made a test and disabled fast boot. The OS managed to shut itself down. More testing is required, but I guess I've found the reason.
Congratulations to MS for creating such a dumpsterfire of an OS. They haven't made such a turd since Windows 8.
No shit, Sherlock. Windows 8 was the previous OS. Windows 10 is the only thing since Windows 8.
-
@pie_flavor said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Windows 8 was the previous OS. As in, the only thing since Windows 8.
8.1 is considered a separate release
-
@timebandit said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@pie_flavor said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Windows 8 was the previous OS. As in, the only thing since Windows 8.
8.1 is considered a separate release
Good point. So the statement is even more stupid, because Windows 8 was a massive dumpster fire, way more than these nitpicks, and 8.1 didn't change much.
-
I'm still on 7--the last release that wasn't awful--until they manage to produce something new that's not awful.
-
I just updated to the FCU, and I haven't had any real issues yet. Everything works (so far).
I've never had any major issues with WinX. The only BSOD I've had was caused by a faulty Nvidia driver (apparently one of their developers was testing in production).
I may just be lucky (with a decent machine).
-
@timebandit Only if you're running a preview build. If you're running a normal one, it always warns you.
-
@pie_flavor said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@perverted_vixen said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
180kg
I don't speak European.
Don't worry, you're in good company. Liberia and Myanmar are still with you.
-
I've had zero problems with win 10 that weren't my own fault. And it's been a stable or more so than 7, plus with more features I've used and appreciated.