Firefox alienating its users
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@admiral_p said in Firefox alienating its users:
Vim and Emacs (both of them) are really beyond my reach
I know enough
vim
for simple-ish edits to config files, scripts or the odd.java
file on servers. For anything more complex Iscp
it to my laptop and edit it in Sublime Text.
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@admiral_p said in Firefox alienating its users:
I use nano
Me too. For simple text editing on the CLI, it's nice.
Or gedit.
Or Kate
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@TimeBandit I'd use it too if I used a Qt-based DE. If LxQt ever becomes stable, I might use it. (I don't really like KDE).
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@loopback0 said in Firefox alienating its users:
For anything more complex I scp it to my laptop and edit it in Sublime Text.
I just browse to the file using Konqueror, right-click it, and open it with Kate. Once editing is done, it's saved on the server.
Life is soooo complicated in Linux
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@TimeBandit said in Firefox alienating its users:
I just browse to the file using Konqueror, right-click it, and open it with Kate. Once editing is done, it's saved on the server.
I can probably do it directly in Sublime but it's not a common activity and the way I do it now only adds a few seconds so
@TimeBandit said in Firefox alienating its users:
Life is soooo complicated in Linux
Linux is only an option for servers where I work, not laptops or desktops.
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@loopback0 With some minimal setup, WinSCP can stick it in a temp directory and open it in sublime (or whatever other text editor), then update it whenever you save the file.
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@hungrier I like to use X11 forwarding and gedit and edit remotely with a local GUI.
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@loopback0 said in Firefox alienating its users:
Linux is only an option for servers where I work, not laptops or desktops.
That's why you choose on a Mac
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@hungrier It can but my work laptop is macOS not Windows.
@TimeBandit said in Firefox alienating its users:
That's why you choose on a Mac
It's not the only reason but having bash and a proper command line is useful.
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@loopback0 said in Firefox alienating its users:
It's not the only reason but having bash and a proper command line is useful.
But... you're missing on Candy Crush Saga
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@TimeBandit said in Firefox alienating its users:
But... you're missing on Candy Crush Saga
We're still on Windows 7 here, and have only had 64-bit on 'standard' builds for the last year or so. At this rate, Windows Candy Crush Edition is years away.
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@admiral_p said in Firefox alienating its users:
It tends to lack polish, but it's not necessarily ugly.
I like ugly. At least I can tell which window has the focus. Windows applications that have have pretty curlicues in the title bar but ignore the system settings and subtly change just the title bar text color to indicate focus/blur, not so much.
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@boomzilla said in Firefox alienating its users:
Where being refined means minimalist crap that relies on pop unders for critical interactions?
Ooh, I had one of those just today. Modal dialog opened behind the window it was disabling; I couldn't even move or minimize the window to see the dialog. I just had to Enter and accept whatever the dialog's default action was. Great UX.
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@admiral_p said in Firefox alienating its users:
It tends to lack polish, but it's not necessarily ugly.
That does, however, render it unusable for @Gąska.
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@boomzilla said in Firefox alienating its users:
The Universe can have "Linux + Printers Work" or "Good Discourse" but not both at once.
If that were true, and these states were inverse of each other, then we'd have God-fucking amazing printers that automatically connect to any computer, generate their own printer drivers, always print double sided the right way everytime without guessing, filters out airborne carbon to make its own toner, never jams, has photo realistic dpi, and is also a fax machine.
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@Lorne-Kates My printer does most of those.
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@admiral_p said in Firefox alienating its users:
I'll concede that Vim and Emacs (both of them) are really beyond my reach.
I like vim, but mostly because I've been using it for over 30 years, so I know how to do just about anything I ever need to do. (There are a lot of relatively obscure tricks I don't know. There are a lot of configuration settings I don't know offhand, because I've never or rarely needed to change them. For example, I've never needed to enable Hebrew or Arabic modes.)
Emacs, I'm sure, is fine, too. But (unless it's the GUI version) I don't know how to do the most basic operations in it. The vim jokes about having to spend half an hour reading the manual just to quit describe my reaction to emacs.
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@admiral_p said in Firefox alienating its users:
I really love the default font. It's elegant, it's classy.
Wait, you mean Computer Modern?
There's definitely no accounting for taste. I find it desperately boring and poorly designed (for example, the strokes are too thin). Its only advantage is that it screams "scientific paper" so much that you could use it to read WTDWTF at work without anybody noticing.
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@mott555 said in Firefox alienating its users:
Skype on Windows always claims I don't have a webcam or microphone.
Is it the Windows Store / UWP version? That one needs explicit permission given in the Settings app.
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@mott555 said in Firefox alienating its users:
Oh yeah? I wrote my own word processor for my novel-writing.
wait, are you Donald Knuth?
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@Zerosquare said in Firefox alienating its users:
it screams "scientific paper" so much that you could use it to read WTDWTF at work without anybody noticing.
Make it so:
Fig. 1Dr. Kates, Lorne (2018). WTDWTF, Inedo Publishing, "Wordpress 5 considered harmful", p.1.
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@Zerosquare it's a modern font. I'm not an expert, but IIRC thin strokes are a characteristic of modern fonts. Bodoni is another famous one. It's a style. It's possibly a bit rigid, but I don't find it boring.
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@admiral_p No opinion on the font, but the strokes do look horrible when scaled down.[1]
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@kazitor yes, there is something off there. In the footnotes in the scientific papers the size is small but yet it's better. It looks like a hinting issue.
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@marczellm said in Firefox alienating its users:
@mott555 said in Firefox alienating its users:
Skype on Windows always claims I don't have a webcam or microphone.
Is it the Windows Store / UWP version? That one needs explicit permission given in the Settings app.
It's the Electron version, which is also what I have installed on my Linux PC.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in Firefox alienating its users:
Dr. Kates, Lorne (2018). WTDWTF, Inedo Publishing, "Wordpress 5 considered harmful", p.1.
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@pie_flavor that's Times New Roman though.
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@anonymous234 said in Firefox alienating its users:
@Zerosquare Don't you diss Tux Racer, it's one of the few Linux games
that's actually fun.FTFY
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@remi said in Firefox alienating its users:
@pie_flavor He's Polish. They take turns with us to be invaded by Germany, so of course he's already internalized their sense of humour.
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@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
@TimeBandit said in Firefox alienating its users:
@admiral_p Since Ubuntu is trying to be Windows, it's plausible
A very bad version of Windows
ME? Vista? 10?
Need more details.
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@pie_flavor said in Firefox alienating its users:
@Lorne-Kates My printer does most of those.
Your mom does most of those.
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@admiral_p said in Firefox alienating its users:
Ugly, I wouldn't say that, with the right DE/theme/font choice, desktop Linux is ugly.
Ubuntu, by default, is ugly. But they go out of their way to make everything ugly brown just like MS went out of their way to make Win 8 purple.
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@topspin said in Firefox alienating its users:
@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
@TimeBandit said in Firefox alienating its users:
@admiral_p Since Ubuntu is trying to be Windows, it's plausible
A very bad version of Windows
ME? Vista? 10?
Need more details.I had a laptop with ME, it worked perfectly fine. I think I wiped it and put Windows 2000 on it.
Vista was fine. 10 is okay for the most part.
Honestly I think the worst version of Windows was XP.
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@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
I had a laptop with ME, it worked perfectly fine. I think I wiped it and put Windows 2000 on it.
Vista was fine. 10 is okay for the most part.
Honestly I think the worst version of Windows was XP.And you think I'm mentally hill
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@sweaty_gammon XP was fine if you either 1) ran it air-gapped from the internet, or 2) had SP 3 or whatever installed.
ME blue-screened when you looked at it.
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@TimeBandit said in Firefox alienating its users:
@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
I had a laptop with ME, it worked perfectly fine. I think I wiped it and put Windows 2000 on it.
Vista was fine. 10 is okay for the most part.
Honestly I think the worst version of Windows was XP.And you think I'm mentally hill
I've been using unix/linux since IRIX on SGI machines. The problems with Windows are well documented and there is normally a way to solve it, even if you have to resort to the registry nonsense and the Local Group Policy. Sometimes when you run into a problem with Linux you are normally searching through fossilised forum posts on the 3rd page of google.
I know this is old but at the time this was how you installed the Radeon Driver for Suse 9.2 (which was a mainstream distro at the time).
Also Fedora for quite a while had two sets of repos that were incompatible for years and you had to patch X to get cleartype working correctly on the system.
At some point you realise you have spent 2 days trying to setup up a machine. I did a reinstall of Win 10 (I had screwed up an SQL Server install) with VS2017, SQL Server 2017 and had my dev environment working in about 2-3 hours. It took me about 20 minutes to enable and download Ubuntu 18.04 on WSL, so if I need a Linux like environment it is already there. If I need an X application you can install something like XMing.
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@topspin said in Firefox alienating its users:
ME blue-screened when you looked at it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDBWuEI7YF0
This chap built a rig that was period correct with Windows ME.
It ran fine for me. I was running Visual Studio 6 (I think) and a few other things. It was okay. Windows 2000 was much better though.
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@brie said in Firefox alienating its users:
@remi said in Firefox alienating its users:
@pie_flavor He's Polish. They take turns with us to be invaded by Germany, so of course he's already internalized their sense of humour.
...And...it was...and here's where it got interesting. She didn't bat an eyelash. She just went "No". At that point, even God's going, "Do you get it?!" German comedy: "Knock-knock--We ask the questions!".
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@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
Honestly I think the worst version of Windows was XP.
ME and Vista are the terrible two.
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@TimeBandit said in Firefox alienating its users:
@admiral_p said in Firefox alienating its users:
Or gedit.
Or Kate
kate : gedit = notepad++ :
notepadedlin
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@loopback0 Vista was fine after SP1. Fundamentally the OS was sound, the problem was several things compounded.
- Hardware really meant for XP was sold with Vista. The OS really wanted 1gb of ram or more, but there were machines being sold with 512mb or less.
- The API or whatever for Drivers had changed between XP and Vista and loads of drivers were ported across poorly by third parties.
- Lots of third party software didn't use the correct Windows environment variables (user profile folders etc) and thus broke that software if it wasn't running as Admin. By default UAC didn't allow that.
- Microsoft had to split resources from Vista development to deal with the massive security problems of Windows XP. I think we all remember the blaster worm.
Vista towards the end of it life was literally just Windows 7 with a slightly different UI.
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@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
Vista towards the end of it life was literally just Windows 7 with a slightly different UI.
Well, 7 was fine too until they had to EOL it.
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@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
Suse 9.2 (which was a mainstream distro at the time).
I have SuSE on my Linux server. It hasn't even had a power cord connected in so long that it might still have 9.2 installed.
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@topspin Windows 7 was good at the time. But as someone that moves between both there are quite a few annoying problems.
- Windows 7 still has the 240 character limit for filepaths. I end up having a VHD for each TFS workspace I have to use to keep file paths as short as possible. Most of the time I am using git but I still have things in TFS Online that are in TFS classic.
- Powershell takes quite a lot of time to open up.
- No WSL. Yes I can run a VM on the machine, but that is much more resource intensive and Windows drives etc aren't mapped so setup time it a little longer.
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@HardwareGeek said in Firefox alienating its users:
@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
Suse 9.2 (which was a mainstream distro at the time).
I have SuSE on my Linux server. It hasn't even had a power cord connected in so long that it might still have 9.2 installed.
I was just illustrating the headaches trying to get 3d working correctly. Also until recently the Nvidia drivers would just decide to replace parts of X. Things are better now, but it was pretty bad until about 2014 still.
If you keep to machine that has Intel everything on the chipset everything works. But if you use a piece of hardware not in the mainline kernel it can be an absolute ballache to get it working. It is even worse if you had one of those dual GPU laptops that would save power by turning off the gaming GPU and use the Intel built in GPU instead.
People shit a lot on Ubuntu because of the weird artwork, colour scheme of the original distros, Unity being garbage. But it was popular and quite a lot of third parties just found it easier to target that as it was 90% of their Linux user base.
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@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
At some point you realise you have spent 2 days trying to setup up a machine.
I spent about 30 minutes setting up my work desktop.
That was on Debian 7.
I've upgraded to 8, then 9 since then.Everything just work, no reinstall needed
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@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
The problems with Windows are well documented and there is normally a way to solve it, even if you have to resort to the registry nonsense and the Local Group Policy. Sometimes when you run into a problem with Linux you are normally searching through fossilised forum posts on the 3rd page of google.
I have the opposite problem. Whenever I try to find information on some windows-related problem, you have to dig through a quagmire of useless or straight-up idiotic information.
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@TimeBandit I've done debian upgrades it doesn't take as little as 30 minutes. Upgrading ubuntu (which is just debian unstable) took about an hour. I have a 45mbit/s connection and the upgrade was running on a SSD.