Firefox alienating its users
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@admiral_p said in Firefox alienating its users:
opt out
Adding privacy-invading features that are on by default is evil. "Thank you for opting out. Of course, as soon as you first opened the browser, we sucked up all your browsing data in one gulp, so we've already gotten the majority of what we'd get from you"
How long until someone at Mozilla forgets (accidentally or on purpose) to disable the profile telemetry when in private mode, and exposed a ton of data.
I'll also accept "invades html forms and ends up taking unencrypted credit card info and then a data breach exposes it all"
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This post is deleted!
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@Parody said in Firefox alienating its users:
I wonder how much of their 5%-of-all-browsing userbase gets some use out of them.
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@admiral_p said in Firefox alienating its users:
@loopback0 there is Tuxracer, you know.
It's not a game. It's actually an extremely forgiving OpenGL benchmark, designed so that Linux users can claim: "My games run at 200 fps, so those who say the free graphics drivers suck are liars!"
(They used to use glxgears for that, but the lack of gameplay was getting too obvious).
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I'm somewhat surprised they put it at the top of the release notes. Are they proud of this?
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@kazitor: they have to put something into the release notes. "- Yet another thing we're copying from Chrome with a 3-month delay" only goes so far.
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@Zerosquare said in Firefox alienating its users:
@admiral_p said in Firefox alienating its users:
@loopback0 there is Tuxracer, you know.
It's not a game. It's actually an extremely forgiving OpenGL benchmark, designed so that Linux users can claim: "My games run at 200 fps, so those who say the free graphics drivers suck are liars!"
(They used to use glxgears for that, but the lack of gameplay was getting too obvious).
It's not gameplay, it's educational!
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@Lorne-Kates I guess. Google Image Search and by-URL leads me to threads here, but no info.
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@Parody That's Mozilla's Most Advanced User.
Here's an old post by @boomzilla explaining it to someone else.
@boomzilla said in What favorite UI element will we lose next? Everything?:
It's the Most Advanced Mozilla user guy who wants grumpy cat. From @Lorne_Kates' sig on the old forum (and a thread about that guy and the study he appeared in).
See, e.g.,
Unfortunately the link in that post has expired. But the picture and "looking for Grumpy Cat" both come from that Mozilla user study.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in Firefox alienating its users:
getting a court jester
You should have posted this to the Good Ideas Thread rather than here.
well, maybe you did, I'm still 4 years behind on that one...
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Firefox alienating its users:
Six versions of Windows behind is XP, if memory serves.
Depends on how you count: consumer OS only, NT and classic, do you include Server, Phone, etc.?
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@pie_flavor said in Firefox alienating its users:
Since Ubuntu is aimed at current Windows users it doesn't seem that far fetched that Canonical would try to improve the "feature" parity.
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@remi said in Firefox alienating its users:
@admiral_p I'm sure you've already heard the story of the team of Italian engineers in charge of developing a new armoured vehicle? When demonstrating to the top brass, they proudly claim that their design has "6 reverse gears, and a forward one". When asked why a forward gear, they answer "well, what if the enemy comes from behind us?"
Are you sure that wasn't just the French export version?
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@admiral_p said in Firefox alienating its users:
(Italians and military incompetence, I can smell it coming already).
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@Zerosquare Don't you diss Tux Racer, it's one of the few Linux games that's actually fun.
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@anonymous234 the music is nightmarish though.
I'm partial to the Bomberman clone and the Mario Kart clone. Also, the roguelikes. I play like it's 1988.
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@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
A very bad version of Windows
Until they do updates like Windows Update does, it's still better than Windows
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@TimeBandit said in Firefox alienating its users:
@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
A very bad version of Windows
Until they do updates like Windows Update does, it's still better than Windows
If you honestly think desktop Linux is better than windows you are mentally ill
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@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
@TimeBandit said in Firefox alienating its users:
@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
A very bad version of Windows
Until they do updates like Windows Update does, it's still better than Windows
If you honestly think desktop Linux is better than windows you are mentally ill
By this criteria, I guess Windows 10 made me mentally ill.
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@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
If you honestly think desktop Linux is better than windows you are mentally ill
If you honestly think having updates shoved down your throat (and your personal files deleted), and your computer rebooted without your consent, I am less mentally ill than you
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@sweaty_gammon how is desktop Linux worse than Windows? There are things that are worse, mind you. But you'll find that the drawbacks of desktop Linux are not necessarily a problem.
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I will say I don't mind Windows Updates on my home PC anymore. It's got an NVMe drive in it so it reboots in like 22 milliseconds, and it never interferes with my work because I do the important things over on my Linux PC where Windows Updates can't interfere.
Windows Updates seems smart enough to recognize Steam games as "someone is using this PC so don't reboot." That's about the only use case for that PC anymore. And Blender I guess, for modeling for the 3D printer. My Linux PC has a Celeron and integrated Intel GPU so Blender's kind of a no-go there.
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@admiral_p said in Firefox alienating its users:
@sweaty_gammon how is desktop Linux worse than Windows?
Obviously, being able to leave your computer On when you leave and coming back to work after the weekend with all your programs still opened and your files where you left them so you can just continue where you left off is NOT the way things should be
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@TimeBandit said in Firefox alienating its users:
@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
If you honestly think desktop Linux is better than windows you are mentally ill
If you honestly think having updates shoved down your throat (and your personal files deleted), and your computer rebooted without your consent, I am less mentally ill than you
Desktop Linux environments have never worked properly, never will work properly and when the community gets bored with a toolkit they will throw away years worth of development and start over from scratch.
While windows does have its problems. They aren’t fundamental to the platform itself
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@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
Desktop Linux environments have never worked properly, never will work properly and when the community gets bored with a toolkit they will throw away years worth of development and start over from scratch.
That all changed with Linux Mint. If you can use Windows 10, you can use Mint.
EDIT: And to be clear, I'm not a Linux apologist. I hate Linux. I just hate Windows more now.
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@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
Desktop Linux environments have never worked properly, never will work properly
Proof you're wrong : https://www.kde.org/
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@TimeBandit I'll be honest and I'll actually make a list (as a daily Linux user) of what is somewhat worse than Windows
- in general, "fit and finish" (even the best DEs, which basically are GNOME and KDE, are less refined aesthetically than Windows)
- out-of-the-box fonts and font rendering (depends on the distro really)
- performance issues with GNOME especially
- HiDPI management (GNOME is incapable of fractional scaling, KDE seemingly is)
- battery management (generally worse than on Windows)
- availability of "prosumer" software and productivity tools
- in general the fact that Linux is stuck in a limbo between X11 being a decent functioning abomination and Wayland being immature
On the other hand, if you know your way around the command line and if you have a basic understanding of how it works Linux lets you get shit done.
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@TimeBandit said in Firefox alienating its users:
@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
Desktop Linux environments have never worked properly, never will work properly
Proof you're wrong : https://www.kde.org/
Lmfao
Sorry what happened when they went from kde3 to 4. Oh they basically decided to rewrite everything. The same happened to gnome with 2 to 3 transition.
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@sweaty_gammon so what?
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Oh and they're probably going to rewrite everything when it comes to GNOME 4. You can start revving your engines @sweaty_gammon.
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@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
Sorry what happened when they went from kde3 to 4. Oh they basically decided to rewrite everything.
I'm currently on KDE 5 (Debian Stretch) and doesn't seem that different from KDE 4
What happened when Windows went from 7 to 8?
Then from 8 to 10?
Yeah, the user interface is totally stable
Fake Edit: Are they done rewriting the control panel yet or do you still have two of them?
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@TimeBandit said in Firefox alienating its users:
Fake Edit: Are they done rewriting the control panel yet or do you still have two of them?
There seems to be three of them on my work PC now...
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@TimeBandit said in Firefox alienating its users:
@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
Sorry what happened when they went from kde3 to 4. Oh they basically decided to rewrite everything.
I'm currently on KDE 5 (Debian Stretch) and doesn't seem that different from KDE 4
What happened when Windows went from 7 to 8?
Then from 8 to 10?
Yeah, the user interface is totally stable
Fake Edit: Are they done rewriting the control panel yet or do you still have two of them?
I gave up with Linux about 10 years ago. I am not wasting any more of my time with it. I downloaded Ubuntu recently and it is still the same iffy mess of things half working, the user interface lacking polish and third party software installation issues.
You mention the change in the interface changes in windows. While it isn’t brilliant at least I can fucking install software without having to google why dkpg won’t install a package.
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@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
I downloaded Ubuntu recently
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@mott555 said in Firefox alienating its users:
By this criteria, I guess Windows 10 made me mentally ill.
Your sanity is just where you left it.
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@mott555 said in Firefox alienating its users:
@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
I downloaded Ubuntu recently
It is the best out of a bad bunch. That is really how pitiful the situation is.
Windows 10 which is an awful OS compared to 7 is still better than the best Linux distribution.
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@sweaty_gammon I haven't had issues for a very long time. Now, with snaps and stuff, even less so (even though badly made snaps will usually work, but the theming is off). As long as you are within the repos, anyway, no issues at all. If you go outside the repos you may have a few issues. In some rare cases (badly unmaintained closed source software usually, or unmaintained software in general) it may be more convenient to run Windows executables with Wine, I'll admit it. This happened to me with DuncanAmps Tone Stack Calculator for example (a very specialist utility anyway). They have a Linux version but it dates back to the late 90s/early 00s and I don't even understand what libraries they're referring to.
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@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
It is the best out of a bad bunch.
The only people who think Ubuntu is the best are Ubuntu's own marketing people.
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@admiral_p "with snaps and stuff".
Great another installation method that probably doesn't work properly.
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@sweaty_gammon you don't even know that it does. (There are a few gotchas but it's a new "technology" - I hate when they call them that).
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@admiral_p said in Firefox alienating its users:
are less refined aesthetically than Windows
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Honestly, the last time I tried Linux (Mint, even), it was slow, ugly (made Windows XP look like a pinnacle of design), unstable (yes, you didn't have to reboot for updates. But you had updates daily, many of which broke important parts of the system like sound or other programs. Or just didn't install right and had to be fixed on the command line), a pain to use (frequent use of command-line and text-config file editing), and lacking most of the programs I use frequently. And this was this decade, even. Before that it was way worse. I wrote my dissertation on a Linux machine. That thing gave me more pain....
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@sweaty_gammon so?
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@admiral_p It is another installation method. Just as I stated previously.
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@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
I gave up with Linux about 10 years ago.
Yeah, and Windows is an insecure POS that can't handle 64 bits because XP was 32bits (I know there was a 64bits version but nobody used that)
at least I can fucking install software without having to google why dkpg won’t install a package.
That's what you get for using Ubuntu.
Ubuntu is based on Debian Testing, with packages from Unstable, and some custom patches by Ubuntu.
And you end up in the mess you saw.
Try Linux Mint if you want something less buggy.
Myself, I use Debian Stable so I never have any of those issue.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Firefox alienating its users:
Honestly, the last time I tried Linux (Mint, even), it was slow, ugly (made Windows XP look like a pinnacle of design), unstable (yes, you didn't have to reboot for updates. But you had updates daily, many of which broke important parts of the system like sound or other programs. Or just didn't install right and had to be fixed on the command line), a pain to use (frequent use of command-line and text-config file editing), and lacking most of the programs I use frequently. And this was this decade, even. Before that it was way worse. I wrote my dissertation on a Linux machine. That thing gave me more pain....
Updates breaking stuff only happens on rolling releases these days, and even then, it's usually the aggressively cutting edge ones where users are expected to be OK with being testers basically. Slow, I don't know. It depends. It's not slower than Windows usually (games excluded) and it can often be leaner (which usually means "have a last-decade UX with an otherwise up-to-date OS"). Frequent command line use is not an issue for me, I don't dislike it. I actually prefer it for many things. For example, installing software, I never do it through the store app. It's just pointless, it takes more time and clicks. Ugly, I wouldn't say that, with the right DE/theme/font choice, desktop Linux is ugly. It tends to lack polish, but it's not necessarily ugly.
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@TimeBandit said in Firefox alienating its users:
@sweaty_gammon said in Firefox alienating its users:
I gave up with Linux about 10 years ago.
That's what you get for using Ubuntu.
Ubuntu is based on Debian Testing, with packages from Unstable, and some custom patches by Ubuntu.
And you end up in the mess you saw.
Try Linux Mint if you want something less buggy.
Myself, I use Debian Stable so I never have any of those issue.
Keep trying another OS based on Linux until it works.
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@sweaty_gammon re-read my post. A hint:
You don't even know that [NOT what] it does.
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@admiral_p said in Firefox alienating its users:
@sweaty_gammon re-read my post. A hint:
You don't even know that [NOT what] it does.
I don't really care tbh.