Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time
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FileUnder: because asking the user would be too simple
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Looks like the good people in Rochdale have some foresight.
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They used to handle this the right way. Why can't we just go back to this:
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The current system uses guesswork to arbitrarily pick a moment to fuck up your day while the next generation will use state of the art computer science to ensure maximum disruption.
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@mott555 said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
They used to handle this the right way.
Almost.
If you don't answer that popup for about 10 minutes, it goes "Fuck You" and reboot anyway
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Why are they still putting so much effort into going down the wrong path? If they put half that much effort into making it so you don't have to reboot in the first place, they'd have solved it already!
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@TimeBandit said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
@mott555 said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
They used to handle this the right way.
Almost.
If you don't answer that popup for about 10 minutes, it goes "Fuck You" and reboot anyway
Hmm, that's not how I remember it. Maybe yours just rebooted because DRAM cells don't work well in the cold or something.
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@mott555 said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
Hmm, that's not how I remember it.
I was playing a game in fullscreen and BAM!
It inspired my signature
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My computer never forces a reboot. Configuration is key.
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@mott555 said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
They used to handle this the right way. Why can't we just go back to this:
Because people would set it to the maximum amount of time and hit Postpone for months.
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@pie_flavor said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
My computer never forces a reboot.
ConfigurationLinux is key.FTFM
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@pie_flavor said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
@mott555 said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
They used to handle this the right way. Why can't we just go back to this:
Because people would set it to the maximum amount of time and hit Postpone for months.
I seem to recall the maximum time was only 4 hours. After a few days of clicking postpone, I usually gave in and let it reboot.
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Ever since the last feature upgrade, my Windows 10 stopped auto-installing updates. Instead, it nags me almost every day that it "needs some updates". 9 out of 10 times, there are definition updates for Windows Defender.
Just install the bloody things already, I don't care about it.
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@pie_flavor said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
My computer never forces a reboot. Configuration is key.
Is it because you update regularly on your own, or have you found some secret to how to fix my computer?
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@Gąska said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
Is it because you update regularly on your own
For me, it's that.
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@masonwheeler Yeah, I agree.
Linux used to have kernel modules to let you do this, but I don't know if they've been maintained. Nobody did anything big with them publicly.
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@pie_flavor said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
Because people would set it to the maximum amount of time and hit Postpone for months.
So what?
It's my computer. Microsoft needs to piss off and mind their own business.
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@Captain said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
Linux used to have kernel modules to let you do this, but I don't know if they've been maintained. Nobody did anything big with them publicly.
Oracle ruined that too... https://ksplice.oracle.com/
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@TimeBandit said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
Almost.
If you don't answer that popup for about 10 minutes, it goes "Fuck You" and reboot anyway
Never seen this happen. What I have seen is it starting flashing on the taskbar to get your attention.
I do believe at some point it would bring itself to the top so it would be easy to accidentally accept it by pressing Enter or Space.
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@Gąska said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
@pie_flavor said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
My computer never forces a reboot. Configuration is key.
Is it because you update regularly on your own, or have you found some secret to how to fix my computer?
I do in fact turn it off regularly. But the registry is your friend.
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\AU] "AUOptions"=dword:00000002
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@pie_flavor said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
My computer never forces a reboot. Configuration is key.
Correct
> net stop wuauserv
Filed under: For when Windows Update takes 100% CPU for a month
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@El_Heffe said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
It's my computer. Microsoft needs to piss off and mind their own business.
The usual counter-argument is "but average users would never update their systems otherwise, and their machine would end up in a botnet!".
Which is stupid, because you can fix this by leaving mandatory updating enabled by default, but providing a way to disable it in the advanced options. Average users won't look there, and real power users know enough to keep their machines up-to-date themselves. Self-proclaimed power users will disable it and get bitten, but they have a hundred ways of shooting themselves in the foot anyways, so it doesn't matter.
(and if users hate updates that much, maybe, just maybe, you could think about how it ended up like that. Just sayin'.)
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@TimeBandit said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
FileUnder: because asking the user would be too simple
But asking people would be yet another job for those wimps at the social sciences department, and the higher ups promised that they give the next job to our machine learning department!
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@Zerosquare said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
Self-proclaimed power users will disable it and get bitten, but they have a hundred ways of shooting themselves in the foot anyways, so it doesn't matter.
I think that's what happens already. If you want to disable - dig around in regedit.
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I still wouldn't trust Microsoft to not fuck up something like a video encoding being left to do its thing for a few hours. "No user present, time to reboot!" Considering Windows (XP) managed to download updates like an hour into an 8-hour encode and then start nagging for reboot, then instead of honoring the "postpone for 4 hours" it nagged me every hour and after the third postpone rebooted anyway.
For me, being a poweruser that likes to keep my software on the latest stable version whenever possible with all security patches, all that's needed is a little icon in the corner of the screen (like on Linux Mint).Whenever the green checkbox changes to the blue exclamation mark it's something I have to sort asap. Although what helps me on Windows is that I shut off my computer every night which gives Windows an opportunity to install any pending updates in a way that don't intrude on my usage much. The next boot may take a few seconds longer, no big deal. If I would leave my computer on all night I would have a special reason for doing so and NOT want any forced reboots happening during that time and I don't trust MS to be smart enough to figure that.
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@Zerosquare said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
@El_Heffe said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
It's my computer. Microsoft needs to piss off and mind their own business.
The usual counter-argument is "but average users would never update their systems otherwise, and their machine would end up in a botnet!".
And here's the number reason why people avoid updates:
"A few weeks ago, Skype updated itself. It went from Skype 7 ("Skype Classic") to the brand spanking new Skype 8, which is built on Electron.
Fuuuuucccckkk it was godawful. Its performance was absolutely abysmal, to the point where it was unusable. Thankfully I could upgrade it back to Skype 7, but this option is being axed next month."
Microsoft keeps doing stupid shit like this, and can't figure out why people are avoiding updates, so they say "duuuuurrrrr must force everyone to update, no matter what."
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@mott555 said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
They used to handle this the right way. Why can't we just go back to this:
Is it because
Restart Now
is usually the default button and activates next time you tap the space bar when you think you're typing into Microsoft Word?
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@masonwheeler said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
If they put half that much effort into making it so you don't have to reboot in the first place, they'd have solved it already!
Or at least start by making the reboots last 2 minutes instead of 20.
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@El_Heffe said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
"A few weeks ago, Skype updated itself. It went from Skype 7 ("Skype Classic") to the brand spanking new Skype 8, which is built on Electron.
Fuuuuucccckkk it was godawful. Its performance was absolutely abysmal, to the point where it was unusable. Thankfully I could upgrade it back to Skype 7, but this option is being axed next month."
Microsoft keeps doing stupid shit like this, and can't figure out why people are avoiding updates, so they say "duuuuurrrrr must force everyone to update, no matter what."
Skype is not handled by Windows update though. Please try again.
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@anonymous234 said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
@masonwheeler said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
If they put half that much effort into making it so you don't have to reboot in the first place, they'd have solved it already!
Or at least start by making the reboots last 2 minutes instead of 20.
Funny, that. My Apple machines take about 4 times as long to update as my windows machines. Last one (on an SSD, mind) was well over 1.5 hours and that was not even a named version update. Going up a major version in windows (Spring Creator's) took ~25 minutes.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
Funny, that. My Apple machines take about 4 times as long to update as my windows machines. Last one (on an SSD, mind) was well over 1.5 hours and that was not even a named version update. Going up a major version in windows (Spring Creator's) took ~25 minutes.
While I get the reverse. Any macOS update on my 2011 MacBook Air takes ~10 minutes while a Windows feature update takes 30+ minutes on my HEDT PC. (Or in the case of my 2016 work laptop: a couple hours.)
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@Benjamin-Hall Well, both are bad.
As long as there's enough space, the updated files should be written to disk while the system is still running. Then on reboot it should just move them where they belong (i.e. change the pointers in the folder to the new data). This way each file takes milliseconds instead of minutes.
But god knows what kind of fucked up algorithms Windows Update uses to make changes. It probably does a checksum of the entire Windows folder, then changes one file, then repeats.
On my tablet, which has admittedly a very slow 32GB flash memory chip, a major Windows update easily takes one hour.
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@Atazhaia said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
I still wouldn't trust Microsoft to not fuck up something like a video encoding being left to do its thing for a few hours. "No user present, time to reboot!"
Our IT overlords eventually got this sorted out via Group Policy. Before then, my Win10 machines would sometimes reboot for updates during long processes like build jobs or unit test suites--like 4 hours into a 5-hour process, basically wasting an entire man-day of time.
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@Helix said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
I think that's what happens already. If you want to disable - dig around in regedit.
Sure, but:
- you shouldn't have to dig around in regedit to make your OS not randomly reboot in the first place
- the next major update is most likely going to reset the setting without asking, because MS obviously knows what's best for you (or is no longer able to deliver anything that's not half-broken).
@Rhywden said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
Skype is not handled by Windows update though. Please try again.
Do you honestly think the average user is going to notice or care, considering both Skype and Windows are made by the same company?
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@Rhywden said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
Skype is not handled by Windows update though. Please try again.
Unless you check the box next to "Fetch updates for other Microsoft products when I update Windows." in the advanced settings.
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@Rhywden said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
Skype is not handled by Windows update though.
I never said it was. I was just using that as an example of Microsoft constantly breaking things with forced updates.
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@TimeBandit said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
@pie_flavor said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
My computer never forces a reboot.
ConfigurationLinux is key.FTFM
Not until it can run all the games I own OOTB.
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Status: Not even Visual Studio is immune to forced updates!
What the literal fuck?!?!
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Does Windows have an API to expose when an application has open, unsaved files?
Can it check to see if you're in the middle of an activity, say by checking for your input every few minutes?
Either an unsaved file or user input should be an automatic veto.
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@Captain said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
Does Windows have an API to expose when an application has open, unsaved files?
It has an API to say "please don't shutdown!"
Whether Windows will respect that or not is up to the OS, of course.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
@anonymous234 said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
@masonwheeler said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
If they put half that much effort into making it so you don't have to reboot in the first place, they'd have solved it already!
Or at least start by making the reboots last 2 minutes instead of 20.
Funny, that. My Apple machines take about 4 times as long to update as my windows machines. Last one (on an SSD, mind) was well over 1.5 hours and that was not even a named version update. Going up a major version in windows (Spring Creator's) took ~25 minutes.
That's all (for the Mac)? Oh, wait, you're not including the I-clicked-update-all-let's-wait-an-unknown-time-before-download-even-starts time.
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@Zecc said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
Whether Windows will respect that or not is up to the OS, of course.
After all, it's not like it's your fucking computer.
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@dcon said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
@Benjamin-Hall said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
@anonymous234 said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
@masonwheeler said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
If they put half that much effort into making it so you don't have to reboot in the first place, they'd have solved it already!
Or at least start by making the reboots last 2 minutes instead of 20.
Funny, that. My Apple machines take about 4 times as long to update as my windows machines. Last one (on an SSD, mind) was well over 1.5 hours and that was not even a named version update. Going up a major version in windows (Spring Creator's) took ~25 minutes.
That's all (for the Mac)? Oh, wait, you're not including the I-clicked-update-all-let's-wait-an-unknown-time-before-download-even-starts time.
That was just the after-reboot install time. Not the time to download and wait for it to download (Xcode, I'm looking at you!)
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
(Xcode, I'm looking at you!)
*twitch*
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@dcon
Xcode
can be defeated handily, it will keep trying to grumble about it in updates but you can reduce it to the command line tools and then override those.
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@Zecc said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
Whether Windows will respect that or not is up to the OS, of course.
Yes. It doesn't respect that if it's rebooting for updates.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
It doesn't respect that if it's rebooting for updates.
I intentionally repeat myself: After all, it's not like it's your fucking computer.
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@Gribnit said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
It doesn't respect that if it's rebooting for updates.
I intentionally repeat myself: After all, it's not like it's your fucking computer.
I fuck my computers regularly... Wait.
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@Captain said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
Linux used to have kernel modules to let you do this, but I don't know if they've been maintained. Nobody did anything big with them publicly.
I think the latest Ubuntu lets you subscribe to Canonical's rebootless update service. (Free for regular users, paid subscription for commercial use.)
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@mott555 said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
@Atazhaia said in Next Windows 10 major update will use machine learning to "try" not to force-reboot at the wrong time:
I still wouldn't trust Microsoft to not fuck up something like a video encoding being left to do its thing for a few hours. "No user present, time to reboot!"
Our IT overlords eventually got this sorted out via Group Policy. Before then, my Win10 machines would sometimes reboot for updates during long processes like build jobs or unit test suites--like 4 hours into a 5-hour process, basically wasting an entire man-day of time.
I'm not sure what's more incredible. That they actually ship an "operating system" like that or that people are willing to put with it.