Regular Keyboard that isn't crap
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@masonwheeler said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
I am a professional working on professional tools. I've been using $10 crap keyboards throughout my career.
You're lucky you've never had tenosynovitis, then.
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@asdf Had it? I've never even heard of it!
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@masonwheeler Trust me, if you ever had it, you'll gladly spend 200 bucks on a keyboard in the hope it might prevent you from getting it ever again.
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@accalia said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
Daskeyboard
IMO Das is nothing compared to a Poker 3 (aka pok3r). Typing on it just feels much more solid, compared to the das (blue MX switch).
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@bb36e said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
@accalia said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
Daskeyboard
IMO Das is nothing compared to a Poker 3 (aka pok3r). Typing on it just feels much more solid, compared to the das (blue switch).
i've got the borwns on my Das, i'll look at the pok3r when i next need a keyboard..... if they're still around in like ten years or so when the Das finally wears out anyway.
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@accalia I actually just ordered a Leopold 660m to bring to work (other people in the posts office have blue switch boards so I might as well) but yeah, my home keyboard is gonna stick around until it stops working.
(And yes, @Lorne-Kates I guess this does make me "that guy"... But we have to use Macs. And they come with the shitty Mac keyboards)
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
@Parody Ooh! Another emoji!
Use it in good health. :)
@Lorne-Kates said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
@Parody said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
Model M
oh so you're one of those assholes.
Maybe, but as I don't know to what you're objecting it's hard to say.
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I like £10 cheap, basic keyboards. I've used ergonomics in the past, but the MS ones won't fit in the slide out keyboard drawer on my desk at home so I don't use one at the moment.
I think my current KB is a Logitech, the cheapest one I found at Staples and the most comfortable keys when I tried a few out.
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@asdf Amen to that.
@lucas1 - you're young, and probably drunk as usual, and therefore see advice to get a decent keyboard as being bullshit, but when you're older, and wake up in the middle of the night with your hands clamped in fists of pain, and your wrists ache continually, you might consider that this was, on reflection, good advice that you ignored.
Moving to a mechanical keyboard as opposed to a $10 piece of shite should improve your typing, if nothing else, and hopefully avoid bottoming out the keys on every keypress, the repeated shock of which is exceptionally bad for your fingers. Moving to an ergo board, or at least a more ergonomic layout than QWERTY, will also help enormously. Sure, it's a hundred dollars or so, and you could be spending 5$, but it's an investment in your future health.
Advice only, of course, and as you don't like me I'm sure you'll feel free to ignore it; personally, I wish someone I disliked had given me the same advice 30+ years ago, 'cause my hands and wrists hurt like hell. Every fucking day.
Also, cherry is not the only fruit. Matias Quiet Pro FTW if you must stick with a staggered board.
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@Jaloopa said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
I've used ergonomics in the past, but the MS ones won't fit in the slide out keyboard drawer on my desk at home so I don't use one at the moment.
I don't have that particular problem, my keyboard is a lot smaller than most:
@TrulyErgonomic CLEAVE Keyboard - The Most Comfortable Keyboard on the Planet!
@TrulyErgonomic CLEAVE Keyboard - The Most Comfortable Keyboard on the Planet. Available Now!
You can call me an idiot for spending that much money on a keyboard, but my typing has improved considerably and my wrists are okay now, so it was totally worth it as far as I'm concerned.
Also, I can now confuse everyone who tries to use my keyboard, since I reprogrammed a few of the keys.
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So I am going to hijack this thread a little. I actually prefer the chiclet keyboards because they are flatter. This makes it possible to "hang down" with my hands on the keyboard instead of having to twist my wrists to "reach up" to the keys. What injuries am I looking forward to experiencing?
Back to topic: I also prefer tenkeyless keyboards so I don't have to lift my hand over a completely useless wasteland of keys just to reach the mouse when I have to use it. My third requirement when last I bought a new keyboard was that I wanted to be able to connect my keyboard to several machines so that I would not need to clutter up my desktop with other keyboards, all just outside comfortable range. My fourth requirement, which turned out to be easy, was that it should work with Mac. Fifth requirement: Swedish layout.
Result: Logitech K380. I've been using it for a year now, and I'll give it four
's out of five. (Docking one because I had to do some tweaks to get it working well with Mac)
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@Mikael_Svahnberg said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
chiclet keyboards
ewww.
I understand why they're used in laptops where space is at a premium, but I really hate typing on them. Big part of the reason I've never really used laptops. I will never understand why Apple decided to use them on their keyboards
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@asdf I tried to love the TE, I really did. The layout's pretty awesome, but the firmware's shite; my two (I sent the first one back, got another one, and then sent that back and got a refund) dropped keypresses like nobody's business. You'd have to hammer the 'K' to get it to register, then it would drop 20 presses in, kill the power and plug it back in and the 'K' would work but instead the 'F' went flakey, etc. Maddening.
Seems to be the debouncing code that's bad, there's a 3rd party replacement firmware with a different debouncing routine hacked in which apparently improves matters.
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@Jaloopa said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
I will never understand why Apple decided to use them on their keyboards
They wanted to reproduce the
awfulwonderful experience of the first ColorComputer from 1980
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@Jaloopa said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
I will never understand why Apple decided to use them on their keyboards
Because Apple; duh. Looking cool is far more important than being usable.
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@TimeBandit I always figured it was along these lines:
Hey, our laptops sell better than our desktops.
Interesting. I wonder what it is about the laptop form factor that makes them so successful?
Must be the keyboard and trackpad. Lets start selling desktops with those
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@Jaloopa said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
@TimeBandit I always figured it was along these lines:
Hey, our laptops sell better than our desktops.
Interesting. I wonder what it is about the laptop form factor that makes them so successful?
Must be the keyboard and trackpad. Lets start selling desktops with those
Hey, our iPhone sells a lot more than anything else, I wonder what it is about them that makes them so successful ?
Must be the on-screen keyboard and lack of mouse support. Lets start selling desktop and laptop with touchscreen keyboards.
Now you know how the iPad Pro came to life.
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@TimeBandit imagine what your ipad pro could do if your ipad pro was a computer
(in case that campaign is UK only, here's what I'm parodying)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zPYW6Ipgok
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@Parody said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
Maybe, but as I don't know to what you're objecting it's hard to say.
It's CLICK also CLICK hard CLICK to CLICK hear.
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@tufty said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
Also, cherry is not the only fruit. Matias Quiet Pro FTW if you must stick with a staggered board.
I plan on getting one of these for work. I have been planning to do that for over half a year though currently, so I should really put in my order at some point.
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@Lorne-Kates said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
@Parody said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
Maybe, but as I don't know to what you're objecting it's hard to say.
It's CLICK also CLICK hard CLICK to CLICK hear.
As I only use a Model M on my home office/gaming computer, I don't see how I'm being a jerk about it. In the office I use the same generic Dell keyboards as everyone else. (Well, I stuck with an older one with full-size keys rather than the newer laptop-style, but there's a pile of them in the place where computer parts go to die so anyone who wanted could have one.)
The noise annoyance in that office is the lady who still fills out forms with a typewriter.
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@Mikael_Svahnberg
A lot of the RSI injuries people get from keyboards comes from having their wrists below the level of their hand, which leads to a "petting the cat" motion when they type. Not sure if you personally play the piano, or have any spawn or siblings that did, but the correct posture for typing is very similar to the correct posture for playing the piano/keyboard: ideally your hands will be relatively level (compared to the desk), elbows turned slightly out (not clamped to your side, but rather so they can float freely). On a piano, this gives you the ability to get the full range of power (dynamics) without having to change your posture; on a computer keyboard, it's more about minimizing the amount of motion your wrists and arms undertake for each keystroke (and doing most of your typing with your fingers).I can see the argument for lopping off the number pad if you're not working in a field that needs a lot of numbers. And, as other people have mentioned, most mechanical switches have a "break" point in them that registers the keypress without submitting your hand to the "sudden stop" of hitting the bottom of the key - in theory, you should adjust to that break point and gain more typing speed with less RSI damage to your hand. In my experience, I haven't had that happen (though that may be a function of me continuing to use keyboards at work that are closer to chiclet than "good" -- my current work keyboard is a Logitech Natural Wave keyboard, which is basically full size caps on top of a chiclet switch. And has all the normal problems of wireless keyboards to boot, grr.)
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@tufty said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
You'd have to hammer the 'K' to get it to register, then it would drop 20 presses in, kill the power and plug it back in and the 'K' would work but instead the 'F' went flakey, etc. Maddening.
Weird, didn't happen to me. (I saw a few reviews that mentioned that problem, but was glad when my model was okay.)
The only problem I experienced was that flashing a customized firmware (re-mapped keys) would sometimes cause some keys to stop registering keypresses. The solution is to re-flash the firmware a few times until the problem disappears. Maybe you should try that? Apparently, the firmware update process is a bit unreliable, so maybe it also sometimes fails when the firmware is originally flashed?!
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@Lorne-Kates said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
It's called an ergonomic keyboard. They've been around-- and fairly standard-- since 1990.
I know, and they're shit, and I despise them.
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For a more serious response to the question, though, I looked for a keyboard that's specifically designed for typing regular expressions, and I couldn't find anything. The closest I found was this:
(oh, did I say serious? ha.
)
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@asdf said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
@tufty said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
You'd have to hammer the 'K' to get it to register, then it would drop 20 presses in, kill the power and plug it back in and the 'K' would work but instead the 'F' went flakey, etc. Maddening.
Weird, didn't happen to me. (I saw a few reviews that mentioned that problem, but was glad when my model was okay.)
The solution I found was "send the unreliable fucking piece of shit back to Truly Ergonomic". And even that was a fucking chore. At that point, they magically stopped answering emails when you had problems, although this may have changed now.
The only problem I experienced was that flashing a customized firmware (re-mapped keys) would sometimes cause some keys to stop registering keypresses. The solution is to re-flash the firmware a few times until the problem disappears. Maybe you should try that? Apparently, the firmware update process is a bit unreliable, so maybe it also sometimes fails when the firmware is originally flashed?!
I've flashed a lot of firmware in my time, and I can say that a firmware update almost always does not fail in weird ways that cause a few keys to stop registering keypresses. A failed firmware update generally results in what is technically referred to as "a brick". What causes keys to stop responding to keypresses is either broken keyswitches, bad hardware design causing jamming, or a bug in the firmware. That a 3rd party reverse-engineered and modified firmware with changed debouncing code allegedly makes things better is rather telling, is it not?
When I had mine, TE's only advice was "unplug it and plug it back in again". Then they told me they'd had some problems with the keyswitches, at which point I sent it back for replacement, despite the fact the keyswitch thing was an obvious lie, as keyswitches are either broken or not; unplugging and plugging in does not magically fix one key whilst breaking another 3...
I have a few theories as to why they break for one person and not for another; they all come down to shitty software engineering, though. If I'd known about it at the time, I would have ripped out the controller, rewired the grid and put in a teensy running TMK. Like I said, I did like the layout. Might see if I can pick one up on the 'bay and do just that, actually.
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@tufty said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
At that point, they magically stopped answering emails when you had problems, although this may have changed now.
I wouldn't know, but I heard those stories as well and purchased the keyboard from a third party because of it.
I've flashed a lot of firmware in my time, and I can say that a firmware update almost always does not fail in weird ways that cause a few keys to stop registering keypresses. A failed firmware update generally results in what is technically referred to as "a brick".
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the flashing process itself was successful. But there may be some buggy initialization routine that runs after a new firmware is installed or whatever which causes the bug I experienced. But well, the workaround is easy, so I don't really care.
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@izzion said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
@Mikael_Svahnberg
A lot of the RSI injuries people get from keyboards comes from having their wrists below the level of their hand, which leads to a "petting the cat" motion when they type. Not sure if you personally play the piano, or have any spawn or siblings that did, but the correct posture for typing is very similar to the correct posture for playing the piano/keyboard: ideally your hands will be relatively level (compared to the desk), elbows turned slightly out (not clamped to your side, but rather so they can float freely). On a piano, this gives you the ability to get the full range of power (dynamics) without having to change your posture; on a computer keyboard, it's more about minimizing the amount of motion your wrists and arms undertake for each keystroke (and doing most of your typing with your fingers).I can see the argument for lopping off the number pad if you're not working in a field that needs a lot of numbers. And, as other people have mentioned, most mechanical switches have a "break" point in them that registers the keypress without submitting your hand to the "sudden stop" of hitting the bottom of the key - in theory, you should adjust to that break point and gain more typing speed with less RSI damage to your hand. In my experience, I haven't had that happen (though that may be a function of me continuing to use keyboards at work that are closer to chiclet than "good" -- my current work keyboard is a Logitech Natural Wave keyboard, which is basically full size caps on top of a chiclet switch. And has all the normal problems of wireless keyboards to boot, grr.)
Thanks.
I do play the piano, but I'm self-taught. However, your description seems like the only way to actually play the rather heavy keys. If anything, I probably approach even more from above, so that my hand is in a slightly balled up "relaxed" position. That is probably why I like the low-profile chiclet keyboards, since I can rest my hands on the desk and still get about the same "hanging down" feel.
... and you can use a chiclet keyboard without bottoming out too - with about as much practice.
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As someone that has some real injuries by being ran over by a car or been knocked sideways a few times (I used to cycle everywhere and still do quite a lot).
If I pull on my right (dominate hand) tooo much and I haven't been on the bench press for a few days, If I pull on my right shoulder will have to rest due the pain if I have to exert a lot of force. My collar bone on the right is bent around about 30 - 45 degrees to the bit that isn't fucked. (Bench press and push ups seems to "fix" it).
I used to kickbox and I have had plenty of broken ribs and fingers, on my right hand none of my fingers aren't scarred or are completely straight anymore (not entirely due to kickboxing). I've needed reflexive splints which tend to stop you from doing things like wiping you own arse with you preferred hand, so you tend not to use them because you don't want to learn how to wipe your arse all over again because you don't want to get poo over your (in my case) left arse cheek.
Sorry typing doesn't do the same amount of damage.
I right little finger hurts all the time, not because of typing. Because I broke it to the point even after splints, it is kinda okay again but not really.
Advice only, of course, and as you don't like me I'm sure you'll feel free to ignore it; personally, I wish someone I disliked had given me the same advice 30+ years ago, 'cause my hands and wrists hurt like hell. Every fucking day.
No you decided to be an arsehole repeatedly to me and I wouldn't put up with it, I assume this started because I voted "out".
Beyond that I feel that you have been disingenious ..
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@lucas1 said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
some real injuries … bench press … kickbox
Yeah yeah, you're a real man. Trembling in my boots, etc.
Sorry typing doesn't do the same amount of damage.
It doesn't do the same type of damage. But, y'know, herp derp. Enjoy your carpal tunnel when it kicks in.
@lucas1 said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
I assume this started because I voted "out".
No, actually. It's because you're a vicious little shite who's continual drunken shitposting (and even that's borderline tolerable; ironically enough, you're less likeable when seemingly sober) is driving away people I respect.
And while I'm at it, and I've said this before, so bear with me, you've called me (and others) "disingenuous" more than once, but you don't seem to be able to back it up. So, I'll call you on it. Again. Exactly where do you think I have been disingenuous? A direct quote would be nice.
Remember, disingenuous has a very specific meaning. It doesn't mean "wrong" (after all, we've all been wrong at some point), it doesn't mean "disagrees with me" (there's nothing wrong with that, either), nor does it mean "has been nasty to me" (which I have, and will probably continue to be, you scabrous little cretin) . It's closer to "has lied <about X>" or "is insincere" but even that isn't really specific enough.
So, posts please, or desist from using words you don't have the intellect to deploy correctly. As a hint, using big words wrongly doesn't make you look clever.
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@Mikael_Svahnberg said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
I do play the piano, but I'm self-taught.
The posture is the part that it's often hard to get right on your own. However, you're looking to basically get so that you can type while keeping the back of your hand at about the same angle as the top of your lower arm. That causes the least trouble long-term. You might need to change your chair to enable that. (I have long legs, and find it fairly hard to get chairs that rise high enough.)
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@dkf gotcha. Straight angles, top of screen aligned with your eyes etc. etc.
I have long legs
So who drives your MG? ;-)
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@dkf sorry, I misremembered your Morgan.
@dkf said in Cars Thread.:
On holiday. Got one of these in the garage:
Practical? No…
Still, from what I know of classic British cars, leg space was not really a design priority...
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@Mikael_Svahnberg said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
Still, from what I know of classic British cars, leg space was not really a design priority...
Nor were the electrics. Lucas wasn't known as
Prince of Darkness
for nothing. Also
Q: Why do the British drink warm beer? A: Because Lucas makes their refrigerators
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@tufty said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
Nor were the electrics.
Hah. I remember my father owning a British Leyland car many years ago, and it was truly shit until one day we had a fire in the engine compartment. (The fire wasn't actually something that could be blamed on anything other than a minor bodge during a service, IIRC, but it was a long time ago.) It burned out the engine bay, but we managed to put out the fire before it caused problems elsewhere. Fixed everything up with brand new third-party parts (electrics, hoses, etc.) and discovered that the car then run better than it probably did ever before even when new. Even the maintenance people were surprised how much better it was from then on (except for the smell of smoke in the upholstery ;)).
BL were a truly shit carmaker and just never understood that quality control was something that mattered to customers. They changed their name a few times, and then got bought out and dismembered by manufacturers with a clue. Good riddance.
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@tufty said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
Q: Why do the British drink warm beer? A: Because Lucas makes their refrigerators
I'm sure that if @lucas1 made their refrigerators, no beer would be left cold. Or left at all, for that matter.
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@dkf said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
I remember my father owning a British Leyland car many years ago, and it was truly shit until one day we had a fire in the engine compartment.
Not an uncommon experience, that. Was it a Princess, by any chance? Lord, they were horrible.
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@dkf I seem to recall a lot of gags about British Leyland in "Yes, minister".
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@tufty said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
Was it a Princess, by any chance?
No. I think it was a Montego. Still had the… recognisable… build quality.
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@dkf Good lord. You mean someone apart from my friend Edgar's dad actually bought one of those?
For those lucky enough not to know what an Austin Montego looks like, here's one in its natural "harvest gold" or "sandglow" colour scheme. That's what Edgar's dad's car looked like. We called it "the flying shite".
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@tufty said in Regular Keyboard that isn't crap:
You mean someone apart from my friend Edgar's dad actually bought one of those?
Yes. Second-hand. In deep blue. (Who in their right mind would have a car that's coloured like the after effects of a dodgy prawn vindaloo?)
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