WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else
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@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Not everybody who doesn't update software is stupid or lazy. Some have a legitimate concerns that updates will break their workflow, fuck up their settings, or rob them of features. Does Hindusoft consider that? Nope!
"Hindusoft"
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@loopback0 Facepalm all you want. It's the same fragile, featureless, lack of foresight, "oops, something happened," and paid-per-user-click design sensibilities. The old Microsoft delivered far more reliable, documented, and polished products.
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@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The old Microsoft delivered far more reliable, documented, and polished products.
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The old Microsoft delivered far more reliable, documented, and polished products.
Remember when Microsoft Bob was an oddity? Now we have Teams pushed in our faces.
And somebody deciding to put default implementations in interfaces because they don't understand abstract classes. And the various MS logins that visibly cycle through a dozen different pages before they land wherever the moved the cheese to today. And the "oops something happened" errors that are somehow even less informative than the blue screens of yore. And Edge with its barebones shell around a Chrome renderer. And Windows 7-8-10 where at least four distinct styles of "system dialog" exist because a multi-billion dollar corporation just doesn't have the resources to make its own OS components look like they belong together. And...
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The old Microsoft delivered far more reliable, documented, and polished products.
Well, they did. Everything went south when they got infected with 'users are testers' virus.
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@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The old Microsoft delivered far more reliable, documented, and polished products.
Remember when Microsoft Bob was an oddity? Now we have Teams pushed in our faces.
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@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
And somebody deciding to put default implementations in interfaces because they don't understand abstract classes.
Default implementations aren't as crazy as it sounds: if a popular library author wanted to add a new method to an existing interface then earlier he would either have to wait until he can release a "major upgrade with breaking changes" or do something like the Eclipse project where they make an
InterfaceV2
extending fromInterfaceV1
.With default implementations they can add that new method whenever they want; the default implementation will make sure the compiler is satisfied.
You could argue that maybe the interface should have been an abstract class from the beginning, but then implementing classes can only inherit one abstract class whereas they can implement multiple interfaces.
EDIT: Also note that Java already did this, though I can't remember when that happened.
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@JBert said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Also note that Java already did this, though I can't remember when that happened.
Java 8, released in 2014.
Default methods are pretty useful, yet unambiguous (since if you have an ambiguity, the compiler
says “LOL Nope”issues a diagnostic). I've used them to emulate an API done in a very different way in another language without bloating the (already rather long) main class. They're also good when you've got functionality you want to always be there yet don't want every class to have to write their own version of when 99% of them will be done the say way. (Abstract classes would be the way to do this in C++, but that can do full multiple inheritance. With all the hair-raising fun that implies…)
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@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
It's the same fragile, featureless, lack of foresight, "oops, something happened," and paid-per-user-click design sensibilities. The old Microsoft delivered far more reliable, documented, and polished products.
Microsoft was thinking in a paid-per-user-click mentality on some projects two decades ago. When is the "old Microsoft" you're thinking of? I'm not disagreeing that they've continued to go downhill in some areas in some ways, but I suspect that a lot depends on which team within Microsoft is doing what things when. It's a large organization.
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@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
And the various MS logins that visibly cycle through a dozen different pages before they land wherever the moved the cheese to today.
Don't forget to insert a page that lets you check the "stay logged in" option, every time you login. And even if you check it every time, it will still be unchecked the next time you login. And it doesn't keep you logged in
And Windows 7-8-10 where at least four distinct styles of "system dialog" exist because a multi-billion dollar corporation just doesn't have the resources to make its own OS components look like they belong together.
I still see Windows 7 dialogs in Win10, but they're slowly getting replaced. Slowly being the keyword.
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I'm not an Insider but thanks anyway, I guess?
Inb4: Aren't they all preview builds?!
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@Luhmann said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
... can't they keep their naming/numbering convention straight for a few years?Microsoft has always had some sort of weird brain malfunction with regard to version numbers.
Start with normal version numbers:
- Windows 1, 2, 3
That's boring, let's use the year instead of version numbers:
- Windows 95, 98, 2000
Not confusing enough, let's use meaningless words/letters:
- NT, XP, Vista
Let's use version numbers again, but its really just a name and not an actual version number:
- Windows 7 (actual version number 6.1)
- Windows 8 (actual version number 6.2)
- Windows 8.1 (actual version number 6.3)
- Windows 10 (was version 6.4 for a short time before being changed to 10.0)
- Over the past 5 years there have been 10 major releases of Windows 10, and they are all version 10.0
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@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Microsoft has always had some sort of weird brain malfunction
You're not wrong
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
And the various MS logins that visibly cycle through a dozen different pages before they land wherever the moved the cheese to today.
Don't forget to insert a page that lets you check the "stay logged in" option, every time you login. And even if you check it every time, it will still be unchecked the next time you login. And it doesn't keep you logged in
Or like Skype which has a remember password checkbox and not just logs you out but forgets the fucking password.
Coincidentally, that’s what the retarded uplay launcher does, too, so the insanity is spreading.
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The old Microsoft delivered far more reliable, documented, and polished products.
Laugh all you want, but MSDN had mostly complete description of most APIs. More than any other software company of their size.
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@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@loopback0 Don't you see a problem with a Windows update unilaterally removing software? Oh, sure, it's something unpopular like Flash....this time...and you can reinstall it...for now. What happens when it's something you like and they decide you're not allowed to have it on your computer?
They've been threatening to do this with Paint for years. Somehow it's still there...
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
They've been threatening to do this with Paint for years. Somehow it's still there...
Unlike Flash, people actually like Paint.
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@pcooper said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
It's the same fragile, featureless, lack of foresight, "oops, something happened," and paid-per-user-click design sensibilities. The old Microsoft delivered far more reliable, documented, and polished products.
Microsoft was thinking in a paid-per-user-click mentality on some projects two decades ago. When is the "old Microsoft" you're thinking of? I'm not disagreeing that they've continued to go downhill in some areas in some ways, but I suspect that a lot depends on which team within Microsoft is doing what things when. It's a large organization.
Microsoft from Windows 98 to right before Windows Vista. Arguably up through Windows 7, where they actually learned from Vista's problems. Also because VS2008 was awesome, SQL2012 was solid, and Office 2010 was miles ahead of Abortion 2007. IE7 was a train wreck but returned to usability with IE8. I was primarily a DOS user before 98 (Duke3D, WordPerfect, etc) so I felt like they had their act together on the move from 3.1 by then. Some of their software used to follow Star Trek movie rules but now every release is Nemesis.
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I'm not an Insider
You use Windows? Then you sure are.
I was an Insider for about a year. I reported a bunch of ugly, embarrassing bugs during that time. Then new version was released, with almost all of those bugs unfixed.
Ergo: there's no difference between an Insider and user (and unpaid tester).
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@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Let's use version numbers again, but its really just a name and not an actual version number:
Ah I see you're confusing kernel version numbers with OS version numbers...
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Laugh all you want, but MSDN had mostly complete description of most APIs. More than any other software company of their size.
Looks like you've never seen IBM's manuals
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@TimeBandit correct. #90skids
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@MrL said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Ergo: there's no difference between an Insider and user (and unpaid tester).
Yes there is. Insiders get the chance to experience new bugs several months before everybody else.
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@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I was primarily a DOS user before 98
There was a pretty solid progression of improvement from Windows 2 to 98, but it wasn't really until XP that they really nailed it on the stability front for home users.
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@dkf said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I was primarily a DOS user before 98
There was a pretty solid progression of improvement from Windows 2 to 98, but it wasn't really until XP that they really nailed it on the stability front for home users.
Wasn't XP the first one that made full use of Memory Protection?
I know, correlation is not causation, but...
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@acrow said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Wasn't XP the first one that made full use of Memory Protection?
Yes, unless you count the NT line before that (which I never tried) because XP was the first consumer version that built on that.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
They've been threatening to do this with Paint for years. Somehow it's still there...
I think this was abandoned in the end. There was a button in it that when you clicked it said "Paint will be removed you should use Paint 3D" but that appears to be have been removed and just replaced with an "edit in Paint 3D button" which is easily ignorable.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The old Microsoft delivered far more reliable, documented, and polished products.
Laugh all you want, but MSDN had mostly complete description of most APIs. More than any other software company of their size.
They made up for it with the ever shifting site / URL layouts.
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Laugh all you want, but MSDN had mostly complete description of most APIs. More than any other software company of their size.
Looks like you've never seen IBM's manuals
He was talking about a useful description of the APIs, not 30 pages of lorem ipsum per stub because Indian Business Machines loves to murder forests.
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@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
He was talking about a useful description of the APIs, not 30 pages of lorem ipsum per stub because Indian Business Machines loves to murder forests.
Ah, you've not experience with the old style IBM manuals where you had a whole wall filled with be-grubbed dead tree and error messages from the mainframe were just coordinates into the documentation. (That sort of thing was only just not before my time too; my university at the time got rid of all of that about 2 years into my undergraduate studies.)
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@dkf Yeah, I liked 3.1, so I wasn't saying it was bad. I just know I missed much of the turmoil of 95. The first PC that I actually owned had 98SE on it. It worked great, except the AMD K6 line had some sort of weird incompatibility with it and Windows 2000. Anybody remember, there was a military game out around that time (~2001), where the copy protection didn't stop you from installing but would slowly warp textures and physics until the game was unplayable? That's sort of what the K6 did to Windows. Never had that problem when I put both OSes on an Intel P4.
Edit: IBM's documentation for systems that I had to use was worse than no documentation. It was just mountains of word salad. The only use I got out of it was figuring out P-Invoke signatures.
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@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I missed much of the turmoil of 95
I happened to have hardware where it was particularly untroublesome (it was also very good with both DOS and Linux) because the makers actually implemented most of the functionality of things like the sound card, the printer and the modem in their hardware.
And it ran Civ 2 ever so well. I played that a lot.
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@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
oops something happened" errors
I'm frequently getting a nice one of these ... When I switch to a different 356 tennant environment in Teams it does the hole login dance. Then throws a poops error (let's leave that typo) but log me in just freaking fine ...
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@Zenith said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@dkf Yeah, I liked 3.1, so I wasn't saying it was bad. I just know I missed much of the turmoil of 95.
I was working in the computer department of an OfficeMax on August 24, 1995. We sold a lot of copies of Windows 95 that morning for a small city. That afternoon we started getting calls from people who were having trouble installing it. All I could do is tell them to call Microsoft; none of us had gotten to play with the install process and even if we had it wasn't our job to support it. A few yelled at me about our store not supporting their products; I asked them if the floppies and/or CD were working as our responsibility ends there. It trickled off after a week, thankfully.
Later that year I got a job doing technical support for hard drives sold at retail, making every day OS install day! :P
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@acrow said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
BTW, Doom did not start magically working. Every advice online tells me to install a newer GPU driver. But I'm pretty sure my driver was installed automagically by Windows Update, and installing a package from Nvidia's page is liable to
a. be overturned by an "update" by Windows Update at any time
b. break shit.Any advice?
For anyone still interested, I finally had the time and courage to
bite the bulletinstall the driver update. And I chose the "clean install" optionfor good measureout of sheer self-preservation instinct.It didn't fix the issue.
But by abusing Alt+Enter, I managed to get the game window to show up. So it was kinda running windowed. But no way to get it full-screen. And re-running just didn't show anything again.
So, on a hunch, I disconnected the other monitor. And hey presto, DOOM is running just fine again!
(My monitors were in a cloned-view configuration, because .)
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Windows 10 is an advertising platform
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Windows 10 is an advertising platform
Every time you think these assholes can't sink any lower
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@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Every time you think these assholes can't sink any lower
Well, at least they're not bricking old out-of-warranty hardware.
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Windows 10 is an advertising platform
When something is free...
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@dcon said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Every time you think these assholes can't sink any lower
Well, at least they're not bricking old out-of-warranty hardware.
Yet.
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Windows 10 is an advertising platform
Mmm...clickbait.
I've seen other prompts in that block in the Settings app before, like one for letting OneDrive take over your Documents folder. Showing OOBE pages after updates isn't new either. This ChrEdge one is new, moved from first browser launch. Mildly annoying, but not horrible.
@dcon said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Well, at least they're not bricking old out-of-warranty hardware.
It's easier to drop support for it and let the virus writers slow it to a crawl instead.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
When something is free...
Windows is not free.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
When something is free...
No, Linux doesn't have giant full screen ads
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
When something is free...
I paid €159 for the dubious pleasure of using Windows ( Pro ) on my desktop machine.
So, about this "free" thing...
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Yes, that's the most infuriating thing. I'd be much less annoyed with Windows 10 if I got the choice between a free version with all the crap you get in freemium mobile apps, or a reasonably-priced paid version without the crap.
Instead I get to "choose" between a paid version that still includes the crap, or the Enterprise version that I can't buy (and which would probably be too expensive even if I could, because it comes with plenty of features I'll never use).
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Windows 10 is an advertising platform
Fucking wankers.
Don't remember exactly what it was the last time, but I already got a call from my mom when she "couldn't start" her computer because it came up with something idiotic and full-screen like this and she didn't know what it meant / what to choose. Well, it's either that or they'll trick her into installing Edge.Why does everyone have to be in an arms race how to be the bigger asshole?
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Why does everyone have to be in an arms race how to be the bigger asshole?
Going back to the earliest days of internet Explorer, Microsoft has always been an asshole when it comes to web browsers, and I just don't get it. Any revenue generated by IE/Edge is insignificant compared to what they make from Windows/Office/Azure/etc...... I just don't understand what they think they are accomplishing with this crap.
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@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I just don't understand what they think they are accomplishing with this crap.
Pissing off a lot of people
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I just don't understand what they think they are accomplishing with this crap.
Pissing off a lot of people
So, like, pissing people off is it's own reward now?
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@acrow said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@El_Heffe said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I just don't understand what they think they are accomplishing with this crap.
Pissing off a lot of people
So, like, pissing people off is it's own reward now?
Are you unfamiliar with the ?