Firefox, again
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@RaceProUK said in Firefox, again:
@Medinoc said in Firefox, again:
I give up on trying to get actual spoilertext on this forum.
We used to have it on ; not sure why no-one's tried to replicate it here yet.
People have. I think there's an almost complete userscript someone wrote, but it's a bit hacky and not entirely reliable IIRC
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@Jaloopa said in Firefox, again:
but it's a bit hacky and not entirely reliable
In other words, a perfect fit
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@Medinoc said in Firefox, again:
@Zecc said in Firefox, again:
RIP TabGroups addon. You shall be missed.
It's worse than merely TabGroups. If something like TabGroups stops working and can't be ported to their new gimped extension model, it means Classic Theme Restorer is equally doomed!
Now we we all be force-fed a version of Firefox with shitty toolbar placement, a minuscule "stop/reload" button (whoever invented this one should be given a dunce cap), prev/next arrows merged with the address bar, etc.
Fearing the same thing for Vimperator. No official word (AFAIK), but I spent a bit of time reading about it when the FF51 upgrade broke Vimperator -- and apparently it's likely the new extension model will kill the Vimperator addon pretty dead.
Guess the choice will be sticking to an old firefox, or look for a different browser/fork. Vimperator is pretty much all that's keeping me with firefox at the moment, so...
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@Jaloopa Well ... (a) not having to deal with Mozilla bikeshedding the UI (by essentially removing it), and (b) have you actually tried using the Firefox default UI? Removing it is the best thing that can be done to it.
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@cvi OK, but replacing it with the Vim UI? That's throwing the baby out of the fire and into the bathwater
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@Jaloopa Heresy! Heathen! Burn him!
"Vim UI" is a bit of a misnomer. Vimperator optionally hides the Firefox UI, but otherwise mainly introduces Vim-like commands+"modes". So,
t <url><enter>
opens a new tab with the url,f
highlights and numbers all links on the page, so you can follow up with<number><enter>
so select it, and so on. Selecting a text-area puts you into insert mode, so you can type text untilesc
to get out of it.I mainly prefer the shorter shortcuts, and minimizing the clutter that isn't the page I want to view is a bonus. (Plus stuff like
10d
to close 10 tabs is useful on occasion with my tabbing habits.)
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@Jaloopa
So, saving the baby from burning to death? :P
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@cvi said in Firefox, again:
@Medinoc said in Firefox, again:
@Zecc said in Firefox, again:
RIP TabGroups addon. You shall be missed.
It's worse than merely TabGroups. If something like TabGroups stops working and can't be ported to their new gimped extension model, it means Classic Theme Restorer is equally doomed!
Now we we all be force-fed a version of Firefox with shitty toolbar placement, a minuscule "stop/reload" button (whoever invented this one should be given a dunce cap), prev/next arrows merged with the address bar, etc.
Fearing the same thing for Vimperator. No official word (AFAIK), but I spent a bit of time reading about it when the FF51 upgrade broke Vimperator -- and apparently it's likely the new extension model will kill the Vimperator addon pretty dead.
Guess the choice will be sticking to an old firefox, or look for a different browser/fork. Vimperator is pretty much all that's keeping me with firefox at the moment, so...
Ugh, there's still no fixed version for the tabs problem in the AMO repository?
I was happily surprised to find that Pentadactyl (a fork of Vimperator) is now supported on Pale Moon, though it does act weird on startup until switching windows / tabs a few times. Well, that and that it always needed tweaking to get back something which resembles a browser...
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@Jaloopa said in Firefox, again:
@cvi OK, but replacing it with the Vim UI? That's throwing the baby out of the fire and into the bathwater
"I would like my browser to be a combination of Firefox and Vim" said no-one ever.
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@loopback0 said in Firefox, again:
@Jaloopa said in Firefox, again:
@cvi OK, but replacing it with the Vim UI? That's throwing the baby out of the fire and into the bathwater
"I would like my browser to be a combination of Firefox and Vim" said no-one ever.
Not even this vim user!
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@loopback0 said in Firefox, again:
@Jaloopa said in Firefox, again:
@cvi OK, but replacing it with the Vim UI? That's throwing the baby out of the fire and into the bathwater
"I would like my browser to be a combination of Firefox and Vim" said no-one ever.
Well I did, but I guess that's not your point.
Just as long as it isn't Australis!
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@loopback0 said in Firefox, again:
"I would like my browser to be a combination of Firefox and Vim" said no-one ever.
Oh, man, there was some (young) guy on here...kind of reminds me of @ben_lubar, but without the sense of humor. He was writing some kind of keyboard only browser.
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@loopback0 Hey, I resemble that remark!
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@loopback0 said in Firefox, again:
"I would like my browser to be a combination of Firefox and Vim" said no-one ever.
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Now that Chrome (and Chromium by extension) is removing
chrome://plugins
andchrome://flags
, Firefox is the only other decent major browser. Sadly, I've had it "up to here" with both. It's like choosing between Apple and the Windows phone.
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@Sumireko said in Firefox, again:
chrome://flags
That page has some of the worst UI I've ever seen .
Does enabling the flag enable or disable disabling the feature? If the link says Enable does that mean it's currently disabled?
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@Jaloopa said in Firefox, again:
@Sumireko said in Firefox, again:
chrome://flags
That page has some of the worst UI I've ever seen .
Does enabling the flag enable or disable disabling the feature? If the link says Enable does that mean it's currently disabled?
It'll disable it. It's probably intentionally phrased that way to prevent users from toggling that.
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Just to brace for impact, I've tested a "pure" Firefox install on a VM to see how much I could unfuck it without the unfuck extension.
The good news:
- The "the new private window logo is non-obvious and hidden far to the right" problem can be worked around by setting a theme (which doesn't affect private windows). I also guess it won't be a problem for people who are always in Private mode.
- The "New tab" button can be dragged and dropped to a fixed position (such as between the address and search bars).
- The "pocket" button can still be removed.
- I can probably adapt quickly enough to the history button having the recently closed tabs directly rather than in a cascaded dropdown.
The bad news:
- When you set a theme, the "previous" button is included in it, instead of being a button.
- That goddamn "previous button, address bar, tiny refresh/stop button" block is as indivisible as ever. Which means:
- There's no way to put icons classic left-hand-side icons (like Home and bookmarks) to the left without loosing the indispensable "Previous is the leftmost button" feature. You can cheat with the "bookmarks bar", which is tiny and only gives you tiny buttons (probably so it doesn't eat too much screen real estate that it wouldn't need in the first place if Previous could be dissociated form the address bar). Oh, and for some reason the right side of the Bookmark button loses its mouseover when put on the bookmarks bar.
- You can't dissociate "stop" from "refresh". If the page somehow finishes loading while you were trying to click Stop, then Here you go again! Brillant.
- The difference between checking and unchecking the "title bar" button in customization is around three pixels.
- There's no tab groups, and there will never be because the extension that made them won't be allowed anymore.
- No Firefox button, so unless you want to lose even more screen real estate by adding the menu bar back, your only menu will be that awful hamburger menu.
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@Medinoc said in Firefox, again:
No Firefox button, so unless you want to lose even more screen real estate by adding the menu bar back, your only menu will be that awful hamburger menu.
You can leave the menu bar hidden and bring it up by pressing Alt.
It will hide again after you activate a menu item, click outside the menu bar, or if you press Alt again.@Medinoc said in Firefox, again:
The difference between checking and unchecking the "title bar" button in customization is around three pixels.
I honestly had no idea this existed. Now that I do, I feel I haven't missed much.
@Medinoc said in Firefox, again:
The difference between checking and unchecking the "title bar" button in customization is around three pixels.
Yeah, this sucks big time. I've always used Esc and F5/Ctrl+R because.. well I'd honestly use them anyway, but this is an extra incentive.
Another thing that pisses me off is that Ctrl+I used to bring up the Page Info dialog, but now it shows the bookmarks sidebar AFAIK there's no keyboard shortcut for Page Info any longer.
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@Medinoc said in Firefox, again:
You can't dissociate "stop" from "refresh". If the page somehow finishes loading while you were trying to click Stop, then Here you go again! Brillant.
Doesn't Esc work as a shortcut for the stop button in Firefox? Since it's separate from the shortcut for refresh, it makes little difference that the buttons are associated.
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@abarker said in Firefox, again:
@Medinoc said in Firefox, again:
You can't dissociate "stop" from "refresh". If the page somehow finishes loading while you were trying to click Stop, then Here you go again! Brillant.
Doesn't Esc work as a shortcut for the stop button in Firefox? Since it's separate from the shortcut for refresh, it makes little difference that the buttons are associated.
I already answered this one when it came up: I keep my left hand on the keyboard when I'm playing a FPS, but not when I'm surfing the web, so that's still an extra effort.
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@Medinoc said in Firefox, again:
@Zecc said in Firefox, again:
RIP TabGroups addon. You shall be missed.
It's worse than merely TabGroups. If something like TabGroups stops working and can't be ported to their new gimped extension model, it means Classic Theme Restorer is equally doomed!
Now we we all be force-fed a version of Firefox with shitty toolbar placement, a minuscule "stop/reload" button (whoever invented this one should be given a dunce cap), prev/next arrows merged with the address bar, etc.
I never considered Classic Theme Restorer a very good option in the first place, because it just replaces the shitty Assholio UI with the "classic" UI that is equally shitty, just in different ways.
The default UI of Firefox has always been shit, since day one, but that never mattered because you always had the combination of themes plus all sorts of customizing options built-in to Firefox.
According to Mozilla's currently published plans, Firefox 57, due in November of this year, will complete the full gutting and Chromification of Firefox. Leaving Palemoon as the only option if you want a sane, customizable UI.
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@Medinoc said in Firefox, again:
so unless you want to lose even more screen real estate by adding the menu bar back
Yes please.
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@aliceif said in Firefox, again:
@Medinoc said in Firefox, again:
so unless you want to lose even more screen real estate by adding the menu bar back
Yes please.
Agreed. This, and a lot of other browser "improvements" in recent years, are a violation of Einstein's famous exhortation to "make things as simple as possible, but not simpler."
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@Sumireko said in Firefox, again:
chrome://flags
Never knew that one. Turned off some telemetry stuff. And then, I found this:
http://i.imgur.com/aaj3zYY.png
Jellypotato is so bad, Chrome needs an experimental feature to try to address it.
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@Medinoc said in Firefox, again:
"Previous is the leftmost button"
You're a dinosaur. Muscle memory is for old people. Discoverability isn't as important as random UI shininess! Stop being a luddite who goes on and on about "fitts law" and "target acquisition" and "The outer edges and corners of the graphical user interface can be acquired with greater speed than anywhere else in the display, due to the pinning action of the screen."
Uhg, just because these principals are mathematically proven, decades old with thousands of man-years of design and research behind them doesn't mean that our slap-dash design experiments are "wrong". Stop being so negative.
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@RaceProUK said in Firefox, again:
@Lorne-Kates said in Firefox, again:
Stop being so negative.
Yeah! Be imaginary! Smash the system!
sqrt(-1)... you'd like to imagine you're radical, but then you get square and are just another normal number again.
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@Lorne-Kates said in Firefox, again:
@Sumireko said in Firefox, again:
chrome://flags
Never knew that one. Turned off some telemetry stuff. And then, I found this:
Jellypotato is so bad, Chrome needs an experimental feature to try to address it.
Scroll anchoring? I used to have that enabled on Chrome, but I never noticed any difference with it. What's really needed is a "use less memory" mode (tab discarding is idiotic, say goodbye to any work you've done). Chrome is too much of a resource hog, at least compared to others. I'm not really sure why, surely the couple of Google integrations can't take up that much, right?
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@Lorne-Kates said in Firefox, again:
@Sumireko said in Firefox, again:
chrome://flags
Never knew that one. Turned off some telemetry stuff. And then, I found this:
http://i.imgur.com/aaj3zYY.png
Jellypotato is so bad, Chrome needs an experimental feature to try to address it.
I made a thread about this back when the flag first got added and we determined that NodeBB's built-in anti-jellypotato fought against Chrome's anti-jellypotato and resulted in utter chaos.
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You know what really bugs me about Firefox?
8 years (I think?) of copying superficial elements from Chrome, but they still haven't caught on to the single most significant improvement Chrome made: putting every tab in its own process!
How long will it take for Firefox to finally knock-off the one truly useful thing from Chrome instead of wasting time copying its UI stupidities?
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@Lorne-Kates said in Firefox, again:
sqrt(-1)... you'd like to imagine you're radical, but then you get square and are just another normal number again.
That's only if you're not with your plus-one. If you are, everything gets and stays complex.
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@masonwheeler said in Firefox, again:
8 years (I think?) of copying superficial elements from Chrome, but they still haven't caught on to the single most significant improvement Chrome made: putting every tab in its own process
Isn't that coming on the next release or so now?
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@masonwheeler said in Firefox, again:
8 years (I think?) of copying superficial elements from Chrome, but they still haven't caught on to the single most significant improvement Chrome made: putting every tab in its own process!
But that takes actually EFFORT and ENGINEERING.
Making ad-ladened homescreens and stripping out useful UI is EASY!
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@masonwheeler said in Firefox, again:
You know what really bugs me about Firefox?
8 years (I think?) of copying superficial elements from Chrome, but they still haven't caught on to the single most significant improvement Chrome made: putting every tab in its own process!
How long will it take for Firefox to finally knock-off the one truly useful thing from Chrome instead of wasting time copying its UI stupidities?
If it means breaking all extensions then I don't care much for it. Also, it didn't stop Chrome from becoming a memory hog.
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@boomzilla said in Firefox, again:
@masonwheeler said in Firefox, again:
8 years (I think?) of copying superficial elements from Chrome, but they still haven't caught on to the single most significant improvement Chrome made: putting every tab in its own process
Isn't that coming on the next release or so now?
Yup, they've been working on it for quite a while. Apparently it's very hard.
Which means that its internal architecture must be really fucked up.
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@JBert said in Firefox, again:
Also, it didn't stop Chrome from becoming a memory hog.
What it does stop Chrome from doing is locking up everywhere if one script on one tab goes haywire. Or crashing and bringing down all your tabs once the combined total of its memory-hoggage across all tabs exceeds the 32-bit limit. Or having a script that's burning a ton of CPU and making your fan scream but leaving you no good way to find which tab it's running in and shut that one down.
All these problems are endemic to Firefox.
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@masonwheeler said in Firefox, again:
What it does stop Chrome from doing is locking up everywhere if one script on one tab goes haywire.
True, but it does lock up chrome if there's a alert box.
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@boomzilla I've heard people talking about that, but I can't recall the last time I ever saw a webpage actually use one.
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@masonwheeler Google calendar does it for "display a notification" alerts. The worst is when my wife has left her instance of chrome up with her calendar and it freezes my instance.
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@masonwheeler said in Firefox, again:
Or having a script that's burning a ton of CPU and making your fan scream
Now you can have 10 scripts burning a ton of CPU and melting your fan!
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@masonwheeler said in Firefox, again:
locking up everywhere if one script on one tab goes haywire.
More usually I tend to see my whole machine locking up because I'm out of memory due to a memory leak in a badly-programmed SPA in Chrome. Chrome will (eventually) kill the tab, but I have to suffer the interruption in the meantime.
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@LB_ said in Firefox, again:
NodeBB's built-in anti-jellypotato
Its what? I thought it had built in extra jellypotato.
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@boomzilla said in Firefox, again:
@masonwheeler said in Firefox, again:
What it does stop Chrome from doing is locking up everywhere if one script on one tab goes haywire.
True, but it does lock up chrome if there's a alert box.
I really don't understand their logic. An alert box is clearly part of the page, not the browser. The "don't allow more dialogs" box is an ugly kludge that can break the page.
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@anonymous234 Totes. And it's not like there's any indication of which tab, let alone which window, is blocking the UI.
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@loopback0 said in Firefox, again:
@LB_ said in Firefox, again:
NodeBB's built-in anti-jellypotato
Its what? I thought it had built in extra jellypotato.
@julianlam spent a long time fixing it so that when images load it tries to autoscroll as if nothing happened. I distinctly remember the posts about it.
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@masonwheeler said in Firefox, again:
@boomzilla I've heard people talking about that, but I can't recall the last time I ever saw a webpage actually use one.
The stupid webchat client for freenode does this the second it looks like you're having trouble with network connectivity....
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@Yamikuronue said in Firefox, again:
@masonwheeler said in Firefox, again:
locking up everywhere if one script on one tab goes haywire.
More usually I tend to see my whole machine locking up because I'm out of memory due to a memory leak in a badly-programmed SPA in Chrome. Chrome will (eventually) kill the tab, but I have to suffer the interruption in the meantime.
Like NodeBB? Because I constantly come home to that tab being killed...