Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition
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Highways are very very different for so many reasons to school zones, which is what we were talking about.
Says your common sense... even though every time it's tested in the real world, tweaked speed limits turn out to be pointless bureaucracy or worse.The actual official guidance on setting speed limits is to monitor traffic and set the speed limit at the speed which 90% of the drivers drive under. Yes, it has been determined that the best way to choose a speed limit is by letting the motoring public do it, not some nanny that decides what is right. Setting the limit either under or over this speed reduces safety.
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Says your common sense... even though every time it's tested in the real world, tweaked speed limits turn out to be pointless bureaucracy or worse.
The actual official guidance on setting speed limits is to monitor traffic and set the speed limit at the speed which [s]90%[/s]85% of the drivers drive under. Yes, it has been determined that the best way to choose a speed limit is by letting the motoring public do it, not some nanny that decides what is right. Setting the limit either under or over this speed reduces safety.
FTFY -- although your overall point is good (quoting the 2009 MUTCD, 2B.13, paragraph 12):
12 When a speed limit within a speed zone is posted, it should be within 5 mph of the 85th-percentile speed of free-flowing traffic.
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FTFY -- although your overall point is good (quoting the 2009 MUTCD, 2B.13, paragraph 12):
12 When a speed limit within a speed zone is posted, it should be within 5 mph of the 85th-percentile speed of free-flowing traffic.
Luckily enough, the 85th-percentile works out to 90%, when you're rounding to the nearest mile per hour.
don't try to do the math, you'll only hurt yourself.
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Says your common sense... even though every time it's tested in the real world, tweaked speed limits turn out to be pointless bureaucracy or worse.
You're still talking about highways, where speeds are high, accident rates are low, and speed differential is a significant safety concern.
Urban settings are different.
First source I found on Google is a PDF that says "Don't copy me" and Acrobat does what it says! Fuck you Adobe, my computer, do what I say! FUCK!
Anyway, read for yourself: http://www.monash.edu.au/miri/research/reports/muarc276.pdf
I only got as far as the abstract, can't be bothered reading further.
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You're still talking about highways, where speeds are high, accident rates are low, and speed differential is a significant safety concern.
The guidance tarunik and myself referenced is not limited to highways. An interesting nugget buried in the guidance is the fact that it works regardless of the speed limit currently established. People largely ignore speed limit signs and drive at the speed they feel comfortable at - otherwise measuring the 85th percentile of traffic would just tell you the current speed limit.Let's pretend you're right. You say drive slower - slower than what? If we follow your logic, there must be a lower limit where driving slower just causes more traffic jams and trades a few major accidents for many minor accidents. In the case of hitting pedestrians, no accident is too minor to be potentially fatal. Maybe the current speed limits are already under that speed and raising them will be safer? You advocate school always having a lower speed limit than the road would have had otherwise - why not just lower the general speed limit if it's safer? If we continue this process to its logical conclusion, doesn't that just get us to the point where the road has the safest speed limit and the school zone is more dangerous due to increased congestion? If not, then don't we eventually reach zero? Do you have to drive backwards in the school zone?
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road signs
We don't have them here, but some years ago I've seen some such in India. Some were somewhat funny. I remember one saying:
IF MARRIED DIVORCE SPEED
(searching that on google yields images of some more signs from the area; there does not seem to be the kind I've seen though, a big black-on-yellow writing on wall or something beside the road)
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The guidance tarunik and myself referenced is not limited to highways. An interesting nugget buried in the guidance is the fact that it works regardless of the speed limit currently established. People largely ignore speed limit signs and drive at the speed they feel comfortable at - otherwise measuring the 85th percentile of traffic would just tell you the current speed limit.
Indeed -- this extends further, even, in that the best way to control speed on a road is to alter the road geometrics (such as width and curvature) so that drivers perceive a need to slow down in order to stay comfortably within their level of driving ability.
Or, in other words: Don't give me the pavement area and curve design of a four-lane urban arterial then expect me to drive 20 on it at 2AM with barely any traffic around.
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We have road signs that have those exact two words on them and they piss me off.
I generally take them as an exhortation. As a result, most of my kills are now very speedy indeed.
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We have road signs
Sometimes people stand at those phones in pairs, and a well placed shoulder can take them both out at once!
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Still not sure if retarded or troll. Giving you the benefit of the doubt and leaning towards troll.
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There is a big difference between throwing a bullet or shooting it.
speed kill and don't let anyone fool you with subjective journalism."Lies, damned lies, and statistics"
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"speed kill and don't let anyone fool you with subjective journalism."
Did you actually watch the video?
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Did you actually watch the video?
That video does not make me want to drive to Vancouver and spend my tourist dollars there. (I live about 2 - 2.5 hours away, so it's well within the realm of possibility I might otherwise do that.)
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Yes I watched it.
They say you can't bullshit a bull.
The ideals driving this propaganda videos are not the kind of ideals I support.
They are mocking you by telling you that this is good for you because it will save you $$$.
No one in history played that card.
People care about "personal gain" more then they care about the greater good.-
Flying David Hasselhoff did not convince me.
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The government and insurance company are on this together. they are there to steal your money. speed tickets are nothing but hidden taxes. ( and the moon is made out of cheese )
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a statistical research from 2008 that tell you that allowing higher speed limit reduce the rate of accidents.
fascinating, I wonder how much more fatal the accidents with higher speed limits were, This information is not important to disclose, or doesn't exists. they also don''t explain the rate change, which could be related to the weather that day for all we care. -
If all that didn't convince me showing me a pile of bullshit finally did. I see how little they think about the audience they are targeting.
The video didn't even the slightest try to let you think for yourself, or even give you the illusion you do.
life is colorful and if someone shows you a picture with a single color you better realize that your are watching a distorted reality. (or perhaps you are color blind)Saving life is more important then saving money.
Ask yourself why videos like this get 200k view while psy videos break the youtube 32bit limit?
or why people get upset about getting a speed ticket.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dht-Vy25jPs
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Yeah, I'm gonna need those car keys, @Monarch. Don't worry, I'll call you a cab.
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call me one of those
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Did the driver have a couple, ahem, magic brownies before playing bumper cars? Holy shit.
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struggling for a long period of time to back out of the parking lot
Wow. Choosing a 270° right turn rather than a 90° left turn probably didn't help, but the main problem seemed to be not grasping the principle of turning the steering wheel one way when you're going forward and the other way when reversing. Most of the time they didn't even get the steering wheel as far as straight back while reversing, so they spent a fair amount of time undoing what little progress they'd made. (And a couple of times the wheels were barely off straight ahead when going forward too.)But the funniest thing to me was seeing the other cars go in and out of the spots nearby with no trouble, while this driver was completing their arduous trek. I thought when the nearby car pulled out and drove off that they'd take the opportunity to back up a good distance and avail themselves of more turning room, but no, that would have been far too sensible.
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I caught myself wondering if they couldn't turn their wheel to the left. I could think of no other reason for the mad circus.
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Saw a car honking their horn at the car in front of them to make a right turn on green. I know you're impatient, but those people in the crosswalk would not be happy if the car started driving...
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Driving in to work this morning, traffic on the freeway slowed to a crawl (about 5-10 MPH) due to an accident. Anyway, the car in front of was consistently leaving about 5-6 car lengths of following space between himself and the vehicle in front of him. Obviously, that meant other cars were constantly jumping in front of him, so he'd slow down to increase his following time.
Excuse me, but following distance is speed based! It's not supposed to be a constant distance! You can get closer when you move slower!
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Yes you can link your cruise to the speed limits. Get a Speederaser. Inexpensive DIY kit for any car newer than 1990.
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on green.... but those people in the crosswalk ...
I wonder if pedestrians can hear car horns?
Filed under: not all anti-patternists are driving...
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I wonder if pedestrians can hear car horns?
<small> Filed under: not all anti-patternists are driving...</small>
When they have a WALK signal, and have right of way at all points like they do in California, I can't blame them.
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They have a "walk" and the light is green for traffic??
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Did you miss "right turn on green"?
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They have a "walk" and the light is green for traffic??
Like all normal "intersections", "you" mean?
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I caught myself wondering if they couldn't turn their wheel to the left. I could think of no other reason for the mad circus.
Picking on someone who must have been having a stroke is pretty mean.
I mean, I have to assume that's what's going on because how else could you fuck up so badly and it not be the first time you were ever behind the wheel of a car?
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Picking on someone who must have been having a stroke is pretty mean.
I mean, I have to assume that's what's going on because how else could you fuck up so badly and it not be the first time you were ever behind the wheel of a car?
I was guessing that they had something jamming their wheel. Maybe they were stealing the car and had some sort of steering interlock device that let you turn a little ways right, but not left?
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I had a friend whose car would honk if he turned left, but not if he turned right.
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I mean, I have to assume that's what's going on because how else could you fuck up so badly and it not be the first time you were ever behind the wheel of a car?
I assume the driver was unable to see behind the vehicle at all. Maybe fogged/iced windows or mirrors? I don't know. I base my assumption on:
- Backing into the red car opposite
- When the car next to them moved, they didn't use the room to back up further
- When they finally got out of the small spot they put themselves in sideways (WTF?), they didn't take advantage of increased room to back up, instead choosing to drive into another small space opposite
- They had no plan after that? I don't know. I don't think there was any planning at any stage.
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Just sat through a green arrow and a green light cycle in a right-turn only lane, not sure what the first car was up to. Trying to screw with people, completely incompetent, or maybe the couple in that van were having a fight. Who knows...
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I assume the driver was unable to see behind the vehicle at all. Maybe fogged/iced windows or mirrors?
I can't imagine someone so devoid of inspiration they wouldn't just roll down the windows in that situation.
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Just sat through a green arrow and a green light cycle in a right-turn only lane, not sure what the first car was up to.
I'll give someone a few seconds if I'm the second car, but then they're getting honked at. It's fun when you can see in their car and the jerk to attention, because they were texting or fell asleep or something.
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I can't imagine someone so devoid of inspiration they wouldn't just roll down the windows in that situation.
Did you forget what thread you were in?
EDIT: Alternatively, "You must be new here"
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Did you forget what thread you were in?
Naw, I just have trouble imagining that level of dumb. "If only I had some way of seeing behind me!" It's like the urban legend about the blonde woman who thinks she's locked in her car.
EDIT: Alternatively, "You must be new here"
If you're going to do that, you need to do it canonically: You Must Be New HereTM
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Naw, I just have trouble imagining that level of dumb. "If only I had some way of seeing behind me!" It's like the urban legend about the blonde woman who thinks she's locked in her car.
Self WTF: when I was in high school I worked for a car dealer. One day I am tasked with delivering a second key to someone who had recently purchased a car. As they were busy else where I was supposed to leave the key in the car and be on my way. I found the car, but it was locked, and I had no idea what to do, so I went back to the office. My boss then informed me I could use the key I was holding to open the door on the car, leave the key inside, lock the door again, and leave.
My only defense is that this happened long enough ago that the cars I was driving at that point still had separate ignition and door keys, and it just didn't register with me at that moment what the functions of that particular key were.
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That probably calls for a "Touched by an Angel" flag.
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Naw, I just have trouble imagining that level of dumb
I'm pretty sure I've seen that level of dumb.
I'm pretty sure I've been that level of dumb on occasion, at least for short periods.
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It's fun when you can see in their car and the jerk to attention, because they were texting or fell asleep or something.
A few years ago we were on holiday in the US with our son, who was a baby at the time. He got sick and just wouldn't settle no matter what we tried. By about 3am we were getting desperate so I took him to our rental car and drove around until he fell asleep. I then drove back to the hotel carpark and parked up in a spot behind another car, closed my eyes and dozed off.
Some time later I woke up and opened my eyes... I saw the steering wheel... the bumper of the (parked) car in front.... and for a split second thought I'd fallen asleep at the wheel.
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A few years ago, I was the first car in the left turn lane at a red light. This was during evening rush hour and the street is so busy that if you don't bend the rules a bit, you won't turn left until it's dark outside because there will literally never be a break in traffic.
First WTF, the two segments of the cross street for some reason don't meet properly, so there are actually two "T" intersections about a hundred feet apart. There is usually a left turn opportunity when the light furthest from me turns red, but my light is still green. The short section of the main road should clear out before people turning left onto it fill it back up due to the delay between the red on the main road and the green on the cross street. This day, the last car through the first light got freaked out by having a red light and a green light in his vision at the same time. He made it through the first (red) light, but stopped at the second (green) light.
I'm now in the left turning lane and the only other car at the intersection is the car coming towards me that is stopped at a green light. He has the legal right of way, but is too stupid to exercise it. I start to go (remember, this is my only opportunity), and suddenly he has a brain restart and starts going. Crap. I only got a few feet, so I stop. He gets all freaked out and stops again. We both do this stop-go dance for about three cycles and he finally figures out that he has a green light and I have no intention of cutting in front of him and he goes.
Here's where it gets bad. I spent the last thirty seconds calling this guy an idiot through the windshield and concentrating on what he was doing. When he finally gets clear, I go -- and cut off the first car that just turned left at the light 100 feet up the road. We hit and it's technically my fault and certainly not his. I could have kept my cool and avoided the accident, but I have a very low tolerance for stupidity and he had a very large capacity for stupidity.
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Same intersection several years earlier. The road is very wide, so sometimes you time your left turn so that you slide in behind someone turning right because there will never be a gap large enough to have the intersection all to yourself. Some guy in a classic car put on his right blinker and he has no one in the lane next to him, so this looks like my change to turn left - right after him. He slows and starts his turn, and I start rolling to get behind him.
The bastard see me rolling and stops midway through his turn. There is no one in front of him, and I am too far away to cut him off as long as he keeps going. Now he is blocking almost all of the side street and leaving me hanging halfway across the busy street with cars coming. My only choice is to squeeze in front of him and cut him off as he was afraid I was going to do (but I never had any intentions of doing so). I'll bet he went home and told his wife the story of the asshole that cut him off that night.
Now I take a different way home from work.
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there are actually two "T" intersections about a hundred feet apart.
I hate those.
Once I accidentally ran the first light while the second was green at one of those last year, and had the misfortune of having a cop a few hundred feet behind me, although I didn't realize it until I'd gone a bit up the road.
He followed me for a couple of miles, lights flashing, but quite a ways back, and for whatever reason--it was rush-hour traffic--didn't try to get people to get out of his way, so when the road split in a Y, I was far enough ahead of him he didn't see which way I went, so I got lucky and didn't get a ticket. However, that's not why I hate those intersections, heh, because I already did.
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I'm pretty sure I've been that level of dumb on occasion, at least for short periods.
It usually involved waking up or intoxication for me. And so safely away from a steering wheel.
