Someone poked Blakey about Git again
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@bugmenot said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
git reflog is gonna blow your goddamn mind. It's a history of everything you've ever done to your local repo from now until the last time git gc pruned old orphaned history. The default threshold for "old" is -I think- 14 days.
So, if you fuck up a rebase and didn't think to tag/branch before you started the rebase, you can poke through the output of git reflog to get back to where you were before the error happened.I think the Eclipse repository History view can show that sort of information if you ask it to. It's turned off by default since you don't need it most of the time (i.e., it's something to enable when you screw up bigtime).
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@masonwheeler said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
It's been mentioned that Git was created by Linus Torvalds. The thing that no one has brought up so far is why, and it's very relevant to this discussion.
He did it because the previous DCVS he was using — Bitkeeper — became unavailable because Linus and Larry McVoy got in a massive fight. Now I've actually met Larry, and he's a definite jerk who manages to be worse in person than online (quite a feat in my experience!)
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@wharrgarbl said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
I'm forced to use SVN without merge tracking
I'm So Sorry - Imagine Dragons – 04:09
— Andreu Pique
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@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
The worst thing about it is having to juggle 3 IDEs in the course of normal work.
That's basically why I use Eclipse. I do a lot of mixed language work (4 or 5 languages in the same overall project) so being able to stick with the one IDE is an advantage. For example, my colleagues who use PyCharm are very productive with it, but that productivity drops hard when they're working with the C code parts of the system as the IDE drops back to being not much more than a text editor in terms of assistance.
It doesn't help that the C code is really for embedded devices and so includes real weirdnesses in it like
<stdfix.h>
. Nobody outside of embedded systems knows much about fixed point math; IDE creators certainly don't!
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@bugmenot No, no, no. You can't possibly have good reasons to use git, or find it a good match to your workflow. You are stupid and wrong and have Stockholm Syndrome and something something something disabled access something something euphemism-for-penis.
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It was almost, but not quite, more efficient to split off the on-topic posts and rename the old thread. Holy shit.
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@Magus Remember Linus is the guy that rejects C++ on his projects because "it attracts amateur coders".
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@anonymous234 said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@Magus Remember Linus is the guy that rejects C++ on his projects because "it attracts amateur coders".
I thought they all flocked to Python and JavaScript?
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@Yamikuronue said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
It was almost, but not quite, more efficient to split off the on-topic posts and rename the old thread. Holy shit.
TIL that when forking a thread a user has muted the new thread is not muted for that user......
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@accalia But hey, now you can unmute the other one and mute this one :)
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@Yamikuronue said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@accalia But hey, now you can unmute the other one and mute this one :)
to be honest it wasn't the blakeyrant that caused me to mute the original. i'd muted it well before that rant started.
still i'll take your advice.
:fa_volume_mute:
..... seriously?! you have and , but no :fa_volume_mute:? -siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh-
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@Yamikuronue
@gwowen's post two posts above yours ended up in the wrong thread.
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@asdf Thanks, moved
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@RaceProUK said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
I found it a pain in the ass at first, but now I find my workflow is incredibly easy, because I got to grips with its bizarre idiosyncracies.
Is it possible to experience Stockholm syndrome with software? If so, you have it.
Who doesn't?
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@RaceProUK said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
I feel the same way my steering wheel and manual shift gearbox.
Seriously? You're comparing learning a manual transmission with learning Git? Are you really that desperate to defend Git that you'd stoop to such ridiculous comparisons?
No, both are good examples of stuff for which there are competitors with vastly superior user interfaces.
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@boomzilla I agree. Motorbikes are a superior user interface to cars in every way
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@RaceProUK said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
Press one pedal to open the throttle, press another to open the clutch. Seems pretty intuitive to me. As for using a lever to select a gear, that's pretty intuitive too, especially since the gears are laid out in a simple and intuitive manner.
There's nothing intuitive about that, and you're leaving a bunch of stuff out (e.g., when do you shift?). Lots more I'm sure that someone unfamiliar with the physics of a car and transmissions would surely find confusing.
@RaceProUK said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
The analogy is bollocks, and you know it.
We know that you think so, but that's not very convincing.
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@RaceProUK said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@cark said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
What git doesn't do is source control
Congratulations: you've proven you haven't got a fucking clue what you're talking about.
I think you're on tilt from someone criticizing manual trannies.
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@blakeyrat said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
"Distributed" means "fewer features".
Blakeycounting!
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@RaceProUK said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
they're more interested in shiny and their own needs than usability and the needs of others
Hopefully they'll go bankrupt when people start buying from another company that cares more makes a better product... oh wait.
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Over here, you either learn manual from the start (the more common choice) or automatic. Just that if you learn only automatic and does your driving test with an automatic you're only allowed to drive automatic cars.
As for me, who was taught manual from the start, it does feel natural. Automatic is more convenient, sure, but you lose some control over the gears. And having full control over gears gets useful in the very hilly landscape around here.
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@dkf said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
FWIW, Eclipse can do quite a bit more with Git than it can do with Subversion. Its integration is good enough that I only need the command line when doing tricky stuff like squashing across merge commits, migrating repositories (not your everyday activity) or doing deep rewrites of history (very much not a common case for any VCS). However, I find it tremendously useful to have some of the specialist views enabled.
Every time I've tried to use a GUI front end to a VCS I end up back at the command line. Autocompletion and select + middle click are just way more convenient than the clicking and opening and closing folders, etc, that every GUI seems to require.
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@boomzilla said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@RaceProUK said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
Press one pedal to open the throttle, press another to open the clutch. Seems pretty intuitive to me. As for using a lever to select a gear, that's pretty intuitive too, especially since the gears are laid out in a simple and intuitive manner.
There's nothing intuitive about that, and you're leaving a bunch of stuff out (e.g., when do you shift?). Lots more I'm sure that someone unfamiliar with the physics of a car and transmissions would surely find confusing.
I had that shit figured out by the time i was eight, and I'm a professional idiot :P
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@dkf said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@masonwheeler said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
It's been mentioned that Git was created by Linus Torvalds. The thing that no one has brought up so far is why, and it's very relevant to this discussion.
He did it because the previous DCVS he was using — Bitkeeper — became unavailable because Linus and Larry McVoy got in a massive fight. Now I've actually met Larry, and he's a definite jerk who manages to be worse in person than online (quite a feat in my experience!)
There was a third guy, IIRC, who did some reverse engineering of Bitkeeper that started the whole shitshow.
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@Jaloopa said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@boomzilla I agree. Motorbikes are a superior user interface to cars in every way
The general lack of cup holders (though I'm sure some Honda Gold Wing has them) forces me to disagree.
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@RaceProUK said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@boomzilla said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@RaceProUK said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
Press one pedal to open the throttle, press another to open the clutch. Seems pretty intuitive to me. As for using a lever to select a gear, that's pretty intuitive too, especially since the gears are laid out in a simple and intuitive manner.
There's nothing intuitive about that, and you're leaving a bunch of stuff out (e.g., when do you shift?). Lots more I'm sure that someone unfamiliar with the physics of a car and transmissions would surely find confusing.
I had that shit figured out by the time i was eight, and I'm a professional idiot :P
Yes, and others take really quickly to git.
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@Atazhaia said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
As for me, who was taught manual from the start, it does feel natural.
I learned manual from the start, and it does feel natural. But it wasn't. It's a rare person who can sit behind the wheel of a manual car and pull away smoothly at the first time of asking.
It's a skill that you have to learn. Even now people occasionally stall when taken by surprise or are forced to do too many extra things at once (indicate, watch the cyclist, tell child to shut up, eat sandwich etc...)
It feels natural when you've done it enough, but like walking, it actually takes hours and hours of practice to get it so its "natural". If you don't believe me, go drive behind a learner driver for a while.
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@masonwheeler Exactly.
I like seeing the software world in terms of problem -> solution (abstract concept) -> implementation.
Highly distributed project -> DVCS -> git
Normal centralized project -> VCS -> something elseAll solutions have some inherent advantages and disadvantages, for example, a "webscale database", by design, sacrifices some data consistency for speed. But implementations also have their own problems which are not related to those. And inevitably, people end up conflating the two things. For example:
@bugmenot said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
None of my projects will ever be "web-scale", and yet I use git as the VCS for all of them. I don't need to use it (in the same sense that I don't need to use an optimizing compiler), but I do. Why?
- For almost every operation it's way faster than anything else out there.
- It's way better at resolving complicated merges than SVN. (Yes, you rarely need this. But when you do need it, it saves a ton of time.)
- Because you can alter history at will, git encourages more frequent mid-development checkpoint commits. My brain is small, so I find that I need a bunch of checkpoints to fall back on when I inevitably break something that used to work. Because I don't have to actually publish these (often half-baked) commits, I actually make the checkpoints that I need to work effectively.
These are not things inherently caused by Git being a DVCS, they are simply because Git is doing something better than SVN. The obvious solution for everyone is to use a fast, centralized VCS that has local checkpoints (I think TFS calls that "shelving"?) and uses whichever algorithm Git uses for merges. With so many out there, surely there's one that fills all that?
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@gwowen said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
It feels natural when you've done it enough, but like walking, it actually takes hours and hours of practice to get it so its "natural". If you don't believe me, go drive behind a learner driver for a while.
IME, the issue with learner drivers is not their ability to handle a wheel, two levers, and three pedals, but with the fact a lot of them are utterly petrified at being in charge of a ton of mixed metals and plastics powered by an explosive liquid and capable of speeds over 100mph in a sea of other tons of mixed metals and plastics powered by explosive liquids and capable of speeds over 100mph.
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Sigh, threads are only ever on-topic right after a split...
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@Jaloopa said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
pretty much always result of the tool author failing to read and understand the git documentation
Many problems with Git are due to people failing to understand the documentation. That's because the documentation is
awfulwritten for autists
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@RaceProUK said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
Just goes to show that success isn't entirely dependent on ability.
As a person without ability, I can attest to that.
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@Jaloopa said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@LB_ said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
I'm honestly not sure why git's only public interface is its command line interface
Because Linus is a hack who doesn't understand basic software design?
To expand on this: his methodologies may be perfectly adequate for writing a kernel but user facing software is a whole different ball game that takes a different set of skills. The apparent lack of distinction between UI and API in Git probably comes from having the mindset of a kernel developer, where everything is API
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@blakeyrat said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
Stop defending garbage software.
i was just thinking, reading this thread, what kind of ...git will name a program GIT, when it's the kind of program that, BY DEFINITION, will be used by many other people even if it's just "my internal tool for my own use". and if the name was supposed to mean something or not.
i think i found the answer:
Garbage Is Timeless
or Garbage is Transcendent.or, also considering its use, "Garbage Is There", but that might be giving the authors too much credit in foreseeing how the software will be used, which they obviously didn't otherwise this and most of other GIT threads would not exist :-D
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@RaceProUK said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
And yet he managed to create one of the two most commonly used operating system families around.
Just goes to show that success isn't entirely dependent on ability.also goes to show people will instinctually consider failing twice a larger succes than succeeding once, because, well, the guy made TWO of the thing, so he must be better than if he only made ONE of the thing, despite the fact that when people employ solutions, they usually need to employ just ONE solution, if it's the right/good one, and having to solve the same problem two times in a row, in two different ways, is usually a sign that you've failed at least once.
maybe even both times, if there's this many people talking about some 50-odd years later :-D
(this comment is basically pure trolling for the purposes of fun, yes)
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From Git's own README:
"git" can mean anything, depending on your mood. - random three-letter combination that is pronounceable, and not actually used by any common UNIX command. The fact that it is a mispronounciation of "get" may or may not be relevant. - stupid. contemptible and despicable. simple. Take your pick from the dictionary of slang. - "global information tracker": you're in a good mood, and it actually works for you. Angels sing, and a light suddenly fills the room. - "goddamn idiotic truckload of sh*t": when it breaks
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@sh_code said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
also goes to show people will instinctually consider failing twice a larger succes than succeeding once
Trolling aside, I never actually claimed either Linux or Git were failures: by any sensible measure, they're both highly successful projects
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@RaceProUK Git is Worse Than Failure.
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@cark said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
As a source control tool, it can be unintuitive and arcane. But it does something and lets me begrudgingly rape it to do something like what I wanted to do
FTFY
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@blakeyrat said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
So when you have a process with reasonably parseable output, you can use it relatively easily from anything.
So everyone using Git from the CLI is using it "relatively easily"? You're already off in la-la-land. You're so far away from reality, you can't even recognize it anymore. (Relative to what? Disarming nuclear weapons?)
Exactly.
"Git: because the best and easiest way to do complex structure-changing operations on a basically 4-dimensional graph-like data structure tracking splitting and crossing and joining of multiple alternative timelines of how something is evolving is... through a plaintext interface."
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@Gąska said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
As I explained very carefully earlier - they're writing this software for their needs (and more importantly their notion of usability).
If they didn't intend for Git to be used outside of their little group, why is it available to the public?
Why not?
because there's this saying that people should be trying to spread good, or at the very least, avoid spreading suffering.
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@sh_code said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@blakeyrat said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
Stop defending garbage software.
i was just thinking, reading this thread, what kind of ...git will name a program GIT, when it's the kind of program that, BY DEFINITION, will be used by many other people even if it's just "my internal tool for my own use". and if the name was supposed to mean something or not.
i think i found the answer:
Garbage Is Timeless
or Garbage is Transcendent.or, also considering its use, "Garbage Is There", but that might be giving the authors too much credit in foreseeing how the software will be used, which they obviously didn't otherwise this and most of other GIT threads would not exist :-D
Go recursive, Git Is Trash.
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@coderpatsy said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
Go recursive, Git Is Trash.
didn't think of this one, thanks.
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Git: the Mad Dog 20/20 of backup software.
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@boomzilla said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
Mad Dog
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@sh_code said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@Gąska said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
As I explained very carefully earlier - they're writing this software for their needs (and more importantly their notion of usability).
If they didn't intend for Git to be used outside of their little group, why is it available to the public?
Why not?
because there's this saying that people should be trying to spread good, or at the very least, avoid spreading suffering.
...said a TDWTF forum member.
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@RaceProUK said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@Jaloopa said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@LB_ said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
I'm honestly not sure why git's only public interface is its command line interface
Because Linus is a hack who doesn't understand basic software design?
And yet he managed to create one of the two most commonly used operating system families around.
Just goes to show that success isn't entirely dependent on ability.
Correction: He shamelessly knocked off one of the two most commonly used operating system kernels and borrowed a userland from a bunch of bearded wackos who were shamelessly knocking off the userland from the same commonly used operating system family.
He didn't create anything particularly novel. He just did what already existed over again. It's sheer economics that commercial unixes died, and politics that Linux succeeded over the BSDs. Linux aligned itself with the FSF and it's obnoxious licenses, while the BSDs stuck to more traditional free licenses without bearded cheerleaders.
The only thing Linus contributed to the success of Linux was not fucking it up. Everything else is on others.
Incidentally, that same sentiment applies to Git. Except Git is fucked up to the core.
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@boomzilla said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@dkf said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@masonwheeler said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
It's been mentioned that Git was created by Linus Torvalds. The thing that no one has brought up so far is why, and it's very relevant to this discussion.
He did it because the previous DCVS he was using — Bitkeeper — became unavailable because Linus and Larry McVoy got in a massive fight. Now I've actually met Larry, and he's a definite jerk who manages to be worse in person than online (quite a feat in my experience!)
There was a third guy, IIRC, who did some reverse engineering of Bitkeeper that started the whole shitshow.
Yes.
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@Gąska said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@sh_code said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@Gąska said in Someone poked Blakey about Git again:
@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
As I explained very carefully earlier - they're writing this software for their needs (and more importantly their notion of usability).
If they didn't intend for Git to be used outside of their little group, why is it available to the public?
Why not?
because there's this saying that people should be trying to spread good, or at the very least, avoid spreading suffering.
...said a TDWTF forum member.
we spread the bad in a limited way amongst ourselves to help each other get enlightened so that we can, on this Enlightenment Foundation, learn to spread less bad ourselves.
also don't typecast me, Enlightenment Foundation doesn't like types.
(why is "amongst" highlighted as incorrect? have I finally successfully started on my way to drink myself to stupidity?)