It's not quite keylogging I guess
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Yes, it is exactly keylogging--just in a very specific scope--and should be treated as exactly as evil as any other keylogger.
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Real talk: Just who in the everloving fuck actually reviews that kind of data? It SOUNDS useful on the surface, but lacking fuller context I can't come up with a situation in which I'd want to use it. Further, it's agonizingly slow to review.
This is just data hoarding.
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@weng There is no end to the number of things you can outsource to India.
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We scanned the configuration settings of the Alexa top 1 million publishers using UserReplay on their homepages, and found that none of them chose to honor the DNT signal.
This is me shocked:
@pie_flavor has titled:
It's not quite keylogging I guess
The screenshot of Chrome’s network inspector shows the leaked data being sent letter-by-letter as it is typed. The user’s full credit card number, expiration, CVV number, name, and billing address are leaked on this page.
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We use something like this on a site I maintain.
It's set up so the actual keystrokes aren't sent to the analytics company, just obfuscated characters, but we do have full session recordings, heatmaps of where mouse cursors lingered and where people clicked etc.
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Keylogging aside, can we talk about this:
"Hey, you know those security questions and how they're inherently insecure? We don't feel they're easy enough to guess, so let's make them multiple choice."
Filed under: the most boring game of Fibbage
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@weng said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
Real talk: Just who in the everloving fuck actually reviews that kind of data? It SOUNDS useful on the surface, but lacking fuller context I can't come up with a situation in which I'd want to use it.
Got a customer reporting the page being broken and you want to know exactly what they've done?
I don't know, I fail to be outraged by the concept itself. What's stupid is that they use third parties for that, and it would be good to at least notify the user, but it's no worse than having your phone call to a company recorded.
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@maciejasjmj I've always preferred to use
127.0.0.1
as my home address.
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@dkf I prefer using
::1
as my home address. Much shorter and quicker to type!
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@atazhaia
~
is even shorter.
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@atazhaia But
localhost
doesn't require the shift key.
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@pie_flavor Nor does
127.0.0.1
on every keyboard I've used…
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@dkf you should be using capital numbers
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@dkf said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@pie_flavor Nor does
127.0.0.1
on every keyboard I've used…Unnecessary stretching of fingers.
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@coderpatsy unnecessary moving of fingers. they're already on the home row.
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@jaloopa said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
We use something like this on a site I maintain.
It's set up so the actual keystrokes aren't sent to the analytics company, just obfuscated characters, but we do have full session recordings, heatmaps of where mouse cursors lingered and where people clicked etc.
Sounds like you'd only ever need mouse input.
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@dkf said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@pie_flavor Nor does
127.0.0.1
on every keyboard I've used…Pfft. I can type
::1
without using the Shift key. On AZERTY, colon is lower-case slash.
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@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
On AZERTY, colon is lower-case slash.
:jimcarreydryheave.gif:
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@hungrier said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
On AZERTY, colon is lower-case slash.
:jimcarreydryheave.gif:
Which part? AZERTY has issues, that's for sure (numbers are upper-case punctuation? ), or were you referring to my choice of description? Would you have preferred
:
is unshifted/
?
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@steve_the_cynic Your description was fine; the reaction is to AZERTY and every new fact I learn about it.
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As someone who worked with e-commerce websites and stuff, I can guarantee you they use this for marketing feedback, and NOT for troubleshooting purposes (if they do, it's a side-benefit, not the primary one). It's part of their A/B testing, where if they move a mission-critical button (e.g. "Add to Cart", "Checkout") from one side of the page to the other they want to see whether that results in more clicks to that button, and they want to see their interaction with everything else on the page to see what they might be distracted by.
In the end, they're trying to squeeze every last click out of their customers to ensure there are minimal abandoned carts. Then they can report the results and say, "Our studies have shown you get more clicks on the Add to Cart button sooner if you make it 600x900 pixels and have it flash on the middle of the screen in a fixed position for 2 seconds every 5 seconds." and if you retort with, "That will just piss off the customer" they'll say, "But our statistics don't lie! They click the button sooner and more frequently! Do it!" The only fortunate thing I'll say is they weren't logging keys in the sense that you knew what they were typing, but just that they were typing. It's similar data to what you see in an IM/chat session with that "X user is typing..." notification at the bottom.
I've always hated this kind of stuff. Beyond the privacy issues, it's often useless data that they try to convince themselves is useful, if you're on a mobile device it siphons data usage, and it's overall a horrible practice fed by marketing people wanting as much data as they can grasp regardless of how pointless it is.
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@the_quiet_one said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
I can guarantee you they use this for marketing feedback, and NOT for troubleshooting purposes
In our case, it's used because a bigwig saw it, thought it sounded good and bought a 2 week free trial that they then told us to integrate. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever looked at the results and tried to analyse anything about what it's telling them
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@bb36e said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@dkf you should be using capital numbers
!@&.).).!
???
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@djls45 said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@bb36e said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@dkf you should be using capital numbers
!@&.).).!
???Capital numbers? 1234567890 Yeah, works for me. Lower case numbers are &é"'(-è_çà . AZERTY FTL!(1)
(1) For The Lose, duh. Or maybe the other reading of FTW: Fuck The What.
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@jaloopa said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
bought a 2 week free trial
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@Tsaukpaetra said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@Jaloopa said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
bought a 2 week free trial
+1, but some subscriptions do have this sort of thing. You can sign up for a free trial period, but you have to enter credit card information, so that after the free period, they can automatically start charging you.
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@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
numbers are upper-case punctuation
Naturally. For long numbers you should switch to the number pad and writing short numbers (in a sentence) as digits is an affront to the French language, which I believe is a crime?
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@bb36e said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
you should be using capital numbers
I would, except that Unicode doesn’t consider to be distinct from and I foresee major problems trying to use OpenType features on a forum.
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p.oldstyle-nums { font-variant-numeric: oldstyle-nums; } p.lining-nums { font-variant-numeric: lining-nums; }
Then get Ben to adjust this line in his sanitizer to allow it:
ElemAttrAtomMatch(atom.P, atom.Class, regexp.MustCompile(`\A(?:(?:(?:oldstyle|lining)-nums)(?:\s+|\s*\z))*\z`)).
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@pleegwat said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
numbers are upper-case punctuation
Naturally. For long numbers you should switch to the number pad and writing short numbers (in a sentence) as digits is an affront to the French language, which I believe is a crime?
I was always taught that it's an affront to the English language as well, on both sides of the Pond. But I guess that's because I'm an old fart, and well deserve a and a dose of "get off my lawn!".
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@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@pleegwat said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
numbers are upper-case punctuation
Naturally. For long numbers you should switch to the number pad and writing short numbers (in a sentence) as digits is an affront to the French language, which I believe is a crime?
I was always taught that it's an affront to the English language as well, on both sides of the Pond. But I guess that's because I'm an old fart, and well deserve a and a dose of "get off my lawn!".
Depends on how short, and the context. Anything less than like 10, yeah, you should probably write out, most of the time, at least if you're being formal. It's not really a thing people care about though, and there are much more terrible affronts to the language (like the there/their/they're or its/it's debacle).
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@steve_the_cynic The rule I was taught in Dutch is that numbers under ten should be written out, and numbers above it should be written in digits, but if you have multiple numbers in one sentence or paragraph you should be consistent. So
The morning class is from 8 to 12
orThe morning class is from eight to twelve
are acceptable, butThe morning class is from eight to 12
is not.
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@sloosecannon said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@pleegwat said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
numbers are upper-case punctuation
Naturally. For long numbers you should switch to the number pad and writing short numbers (in a sentence) as digits is an affront to the French language, which I believe is a crime?
I was always taught that it's an affront to the English language as well, on both sides of the Pond. But I guess that's because I'm an old fart, and well deserve a and a dose of "get off my lawn!".
Depends on how short, and the context. Anything less than like 10, yeah, you should probably write out, most of the time, at least if you're being formal. It's not really a thing people care about though, and there are much more terrible affronts to the language (like the there/their/they're or its/it's debacle).
The more time goes by, the more I'm beginning to be convinced it's a sort of duty on us old farts to actually write out small numbers no matter what the context, so that words like "four" and "seven" don't get forgotten.
And of course "short" for numeral-words means different things in different languages. In French, "101" is pretty short in word form: "cent un" (1), but not so much in British English: "a hundred and one".
(1) Two nasal vowels(2) separated by, well, nothing at all make for an ugly sound.
(2) They aren't unique to French. Portuguese has them, too, for example: "seleção" ("selection")(3).
(3) I only know about this because it appeared in a Japanese anime, Eden of the East.(4)
(4) Featuring, at one point, the main characters wandering through a half-demolished shopping mall populated by twenty thousand naked NEETs.(5)(6) Quite why there were so many, and why they were naked, remains a mystery.
(5) With their dangly bits(5a) masked by a sort of scratchy white line effect.
(5a) They were all male.
(6) Not in Employment, Education, or Training.
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@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
(1) Two nasal vowels(2) separated by, well, nothing at all make for an ugly sound.
(2) They aren't unique to French. Portuguese has them, too, for example: "seleção" ("selection")(3).What are you talking about?
(1) Pretty sure in this case you would pronounce the t at the end of "cent", but it's better to ask a francophone. (joke's on me if you're one)
(3) I guess "ão" is technically two nasals vowels, but the "ã" dominates so much the "o" is almost silent. But then again I'm partial.
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@zecc said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
(1) Two nasal vowels(2) separated by, well, nothing at all make for an ugly sound.
(2) They aren't unique to French. Portuguese has them, too, for example: "seleção" ("selection")(3).What are you talking about?
(1) Pretty sure in this case you would pronounce the t at the end of "cent", but it's better to ask a francophone. (joke's on me if you're one)
Joke's on you.
I'm not a native francophone, but living anywhere in France except certain parts of Paris or rural Provence(1) and not speaking French is a recipe for failing hard at everyday life, so I am an adoptive francophone(2). And no, there is no liaison before "un" in "cent un". It is pronounced exactly as if you just stuck the two words one after the other.
(There is also the small point of a "magazine" show on the French TV channel Nolife each evening, called 101%, and the "t" is clearly not pronounced.)
As for the Portuguese thing, well, that's what I heard, both in the Japanese soundtrack and Goggle Mistranslate's rendition of the word. A nasal vowel. If there are actually two, well, OK, I'll take your word for it. I only heard one.
(1) Where there are entire villages full of English people all hating each other for stealing "their" French village.
(2) I live in Ch'ti country, the département du Nord, just on the innermost edge of the suburbs of Lille.
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@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
I live in Ch'ti country
You already said it was France, it's implied how Ch'ti it is.
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@hungrier said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
I live in Ch'ti country
You already said it was France, it's implied how Ch'ti it is.
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@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
Joke's on you.
:pie-on-face:
@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
And no, there is no liaison before "un" in "cent un". It is pronounced exactly as if you just stuck the two words one after the other.
Wow, that is strange. And they are very similar, aren't they?
@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
As for the Portuguese thing, well, that's what I heard, both in the Japanese soundtrack and Goggle Mistranslate's rendition of the word. A nasal vowel. If there are actually two, well, OK, I'll take your word for it. I only heard one.
I thought you were saying it's two. As in "two separated by nothing". Which I suppose they are.
And you know what, I concede that it can sound ugly:
Why do they reduce the breads from 18 to 5 in the translation?
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@zecc said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
Why do they reduce the breads from 18 to 5 in the translation?
because Google Translator was hungry?
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@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
(2) They aren't unique to French. Portuguese has them, too, for example: "seleção" ("selection")(3).
(3) I only know about this because it appeared in a Japanese anime, Eden of the East.(4)I know about it because 'seleção' is the name of one of Lúcio's skins in Overwatch and because 3% is a good show.
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@pie_flavor said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
seleção
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@hungrier said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
I live in Ch'ti country
You already said it was France, it's implied how Ch'ti it is.
No, not at all. The evidence of Bienvenue chez les Ch'tis (an elaborate French ethnic joke, in the form of a feature-length film) suggests strongly that a lot of people in other parts of France would be mystified or even offended if you accused them of being even slightly Ch'ti. It's sort of like saying that all Americans are rednecks or hicks from rural Iowa(1). Or equating "British" with "wurzel from Somerset".
Ch'ti country is a diffusely-defined area in the extreme north of France, and it isn't exactly rural hicks - the area has been fairly heavily industrialised(2), and Lille, squarely in the middle of the area, is one of the largest cities in France, fourth or fifth in that particular challenge. But it has a characteristic accent, dialect, and cuisine. (Shared to a certain extent with a neighbouring swearified(3) buffer state.)
(1) When my late wife was in the US Air Force, one of her fellow airmen was, indeed, a hick from rural Iowa (might have been Idaho or one of the other rural Northern Tier states). He had a deeply scary blind trust of authority.
(2) Not so much any more - the area suffered heavily following the flight of the textile industry from Europe to various sweatshop countries in parts of Asia, and again as the coal-mining industry ran into issues.
(3) Notoriously, of course, by Douglas Adams.
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@zecc said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
And no, there is no liaison before "un" in "cent un". It is pronounced exactly as if you just stuck the two words one after the other.
Wow, that is strange. And they are very similar, aren't they?
A crude analysis defines three different nasal vowels in French:
- an / on / en
- ain / in / ein / (special cases: oin / uin)
- un
"cent un" involves, then, the an/on/en one and the "un" one. I'm not sure if that makes it easier or harder. "100 years" would translate as "cent ans" and there the two sounds would be very similar.
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@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@hungrier said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
I live in Ch'ti country
You already said it was France, it's implied how Ch'ti it is.
No, not at all. The evidence of Bienvenue chez les Ch'tis (an elaborate French ethnic joke, in the form of a feature-length film) suggests strongly that a lot of people in other parts of France would be mystified or even offended if you accused them of being even slightly Ch'ti. It's sort of like saying that all Americans are rednecks or hicks from rural Iowa(1). Or equating "British" with "wurzel from Somerset".
Ch'ti country is a diffusely-defined area in the extreme north of France, and it isn't exactly rural hicks - the area has been fairly heavily industrialised(2), and Lille, squarely in the middle of the area, is one of the largest cities in France, fourth or fifth in that particular challenge. But it has a characteristic accent, dialect, and cuisine. (Shared to a certain extent with a neighbouring swearified(3) buffer state.)
(1) When my late wife was in the US Air Force, one of her fellow airmen was, indeed, a hick from rural Iowa (might have been Idaho or one of the other rural Northern Tier states). He had a deeply scary blind trust of authority.
(2) Not so much any more - the area suffered heavily following the flight of the textile industry from Europe to various sweatshop countries in parts of Asia, and again as the coal-mining industry ran into issues.
(3) Notoriously, of course, by Douglas Adams.
What does Ch'ti look like it would be pronounced as, assuming on knowledge of French?
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@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
"100 years" would translate as "cent ans" and there the two sounds would be very similar.
"Cent un ans en Les Mans"
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@jaloopa said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@hungrier said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
I live in Ch'ti country
You already said it was France, it's implied how Ch'ti it is.
No, not at all. The evidence of Bienvenue chez les Ch'tis (an elaborate French ethnic joke, in the form of a feature-length film) suggests strongly that a lot of people in other parts of France would be mystified or even offended if you accused them of being even slightly Ch'ti. It's sort of like saying that all Americans are rednecks or hicks from rural Iowa(1). Or equating "British" with "wurzel from Somerset".
Ch'ti country is a diffusely-defined area in the extreme north of France, and it isn't exactly rural hicks - the area has been fairly heavily industrialised(2), and Lille, squarely in the middle of the area, is one of the largest cities in France, fourth or fifth in that particular challenge. But it has a characteristic accent, dialect, and cuisine. (Shared to a certain extent with a neighbouring swearified(3) buffer state.)
(1) When my late wife was in the US Air Force, one of her fellow airmen was, indeed, a hick from rural Iowa (might have been Idaho or one of the other rural Northern Tier states). He had a deeply scary blind trust of authority.
(2) Not so much any more - the area suffered heavily following the flight of the textile industry from Europe to various sweatshop countries in parts of Asia, and again as the coal-mining industry ran into issues.
(3) Notoriously, of course, by Douglas Adams.
What does Ch'ti look like it would be pronounced as, assuming on knowledge of French?
shtee?
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@steve_the_cynic said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
a lot of people in other parts of France would be mystified or even offended if you accused them of being even slightly Ch'ti.
I assumed he was going for offended, but would settle for mystified if they didn't speak English.
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@twelvebaud said in It's not quite keylogging I guess:
p.oldstyle-nums { font-variant-numeric: oldstyle-nums; } p.lining-nums { font-variant-numeric: lining-nums; }
Then get Ben to adjust this line in his sanitizer to allow it:
ElemAttrAtomMatch(atom.P, atom.Class, regexp.MustCompile(`\A(?:(?:(?:oldstyle|lining)-nums)(?:\s+|\s*\z))*\z`)).
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