How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?
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@el_heffe said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
Today's fun exercise:
Go to mozilla.org and try to download Firefox. You can do it, but it's about as non-obvious as they can possibly make it.
Why would you scroll down? There's a nice uniquely-colored link right there at the top... BTW, clicking this immediately brings you to this:
Which, unless you turned off drive-by-downloads immediately prompts you to download and install FireFox. Done. Anyways, moving on, following instructions...
(1) Scroll down the page looking for a download link. Click on the link that says
Get Firefox
. Scroll to the bottom of that page and there's a link that saysDownload Firefox
. Click it and . . . . fooled you!! . . . it's just a link to the page you're on.E_FAILED_STEPS??$a.Lnk("Download Firefox") Not found!
AI::SysRecoverTest: Clicking "Free Download" instead...
Oh look! We're back before! Cool!
Um... Maybe we were looking for the Advanced Options and Other Platforms option?Well, damn, no FreeBSD I guess.
(2) Just below that fake download link is a link that says
Desktop Browser
. Let's try that. It takes you to a page with lots of stuff telling you how wonderful Firefox is.(3) Scroll to the bottom of that page and there's a link that says
Download Firefox
. Click it and it takes you to the page you were on at the end of step #1(4) Go back to that page with all the stuff about how wonderful Firefox is. At the top of the page is a link that says
Support
. On the Support page click on the big square that saysFirefox
. That takes you to a page with a big green button that saysFirefox free download
.Finally!! We made it.
(5) Click the big green download button and it takes you to . . . . . the page you were on at the end of in step #1 above. A page with no working download link.
(6) Go back to the Support page. Under the big green download button is a link that says
Systems and Languages
in a gray font on a gray background (because that's so easy to read). Click on it and it takes you to the page where you can actually download Firefox.I really have no idea where you got so lost. Maybe I was just using an unsupported browser?
Let's try with Edge:
Well, shit.
Damn, looks like Edge supports drive-by-download too.
Lets try Internet Explorer 9
Nope.
HHmmmmm.....
Maybe it's a user agent thing? Lets try IE in 7.0 emulation mode...
Ok, a little crappy, emulation isn't perfect, but hey, we're here to get a better browser, and it seems obvious what to do to continue, so letls do so!
Well, shit, looks like drive-by-downloads don't work in this mode, the popup window failed:
Apparently the certificate wasn't trusted.
I really have no idea how you got the screens you got...
Edit: by @LB_
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@bb36e said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
@tsaukpaetra said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
.....that.... Opens..... My computer?
How is that related to web searches?TIL Searching your PC is literally the same thing as searching the Web...
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Maybe this shit will finally convince me to make the switch to uzbl or surf plus awesome, i3 or something. Whichever gives me vertical tabs, not sure yet.
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@marczellm said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
BTW I still hate that
will change to
You can't customize the top-bar?
hahahahahahaha! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
Oh-heheheh--- okay, I guess you can just go ahead and put your links in the status bar.
{beat}
BWHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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@tsaukpaetra said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
Let's try with Edge:
Let's try with Mac!
Dammit! Foiled again!
Um... Linux?
Well, this one is slightly less helpful, as Linux doesn't know what you want to do with .tar files (well, other than splurge the contents out somewhere)
I really don't know what to say...
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@tsaukpaetra said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
@zecc said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
@tsaukpaetra said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
LOL they had a dedicated input field just to start a web search? Bah of course they did...
Do you have Windows? Press Win+E.
.....that.... Opens..... My computer?
How is that related to web searches?
It's related to "LOL they had a dedicated input field just to start a
websearch?"Now you might argue that typing a file system search is far more different from typing a file system address than typing a web search is from typing a web address.
Well, I disagree.
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@laoc said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
You're so pre-post-privacy!!!1
It's not just that. The URL I type gets changed from
devserver
to
https://www.google.pt/search?q=devserver&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&guid=676f6464616d6d6974&dotnet_cli_telemetry_optout=0&pylons_constructed=over9000
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@zecc said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
@tsaukpaetra said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
@zecc said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
@tsaukpaetra said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
LOL they had a dedicated input field just to start a web search? Bah of course they did...
Do you have Windows? Press Win+E.
.....that.... Opens..... My computer?
How is that related to web searches?
It's related to "LOL they had a dedicated input field just to start a
websearch?"Now you might argue that typing a file system search is far more different from typing a file system address than typing a web search is from typing a web address.
Well, I disagree.
What? Why would I argue that? That makes no sense!
Besides, I scoff equally at the brain worms that made a dedicated search input field in the file Explorer window. Especially in Windows, 93 times out of 101 it was faster to find the file by drilling down folders than it was to use search.
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@tsaukpaetra So to be clear on this. Do you think having a separate input field for search in Explorer is a good or bad idea?
Remember that just because you don't like search it doesn't mean other people don't uh... don't not like it.
I use local search often. Sometimes it's just faster than drilling down, specially if you have a folder with hundreds of files in it and you want to locate a file by suffix.
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On the other hand, it doesn't bother me that there's only one input in the case of the Windows Start menu.
I figure that's because when you type in that input it's always a search. There are no addresses involved.(but Cortana can go fuck itself. Local searches != Web searches)
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@el_heffe Damn, why do they insist on copying every single misfeature of Chrome?
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@tsaukpaetra said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
Well, this one is slightly less helpful, as Linux doesn't know what you want to do with .tar files (well, other than splurge the contents out somewhere)
Theoretically, a .deb or .rpm could be published, but there's not much point in doing so when the install can be just “move file from here to there”. There's quite a bit of software for OSX which is actually distributed that way (because a .tar is a lot easier to assemble automatically than a .dmg) and it works just fine.
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@dkf said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
@tsaukpaetra said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
Well, this one is slightly less helpful, as Linux doesn't know what you want to do with .tar files (well, other than splurge the contents out somewhere)
Theoretically, a .deb or .rpm could be published, but there's not much point in doing so when the install can be just “move file from here to there”. There's quite a bit of software for OSX which is actually distributed that way (because a .tar is a lot easier to assemble automatically than a .dmg) and it works just fine.
Yes, but there's no instructions or anything with a tar file, it's just a stream of files. At least with the other mentioned formats there's allowance for some metadata...
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@tsaukpaetra said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
Yes, but there's no instructions or anything with a tar file, it's just a stream of files.
Nobody ever put a README in a tar file?
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@zecc said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
@tsaukpaetra So to be clear on this. Do you think having a separate input field for search in Explorer is a good or bad idea?
Remember that just because you don't like search it doesn't mean other people don't uh... don't not like it.
I use local search often. Sometimes it's just faster than drilling down, specially if you have a folder with hundreds of files in it and you want to locate a file by suffix.
Honestly, the implementation is so janky that I blame that more than anything. If it didn't:
- destroy the path in the current window
- ignore my current view settings
- take a minute to load
- forget every search result just because I clicked a folder
- still broken path after entering a folder from the search results
- forget my position in the search after going back from a folder
Then maybe I wouldn't be so salty. As it stands though, I dread every time I forget my intense dislike for Windows search and accidentally try to use it to find something.
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@dkf said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
@tsaukpaetra said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
Yes, but there's no instructions or anything with a tar file, it's just a stream of files.
Nobody ever put a README in a tar file?
I couldn't immediately locate it in the Firefox download, natch.
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@medinoc said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
Edit: Turns out it was @Lorne-Kates (got lucky with NodeBB's integrated search, which at least is better than 's)
Wait, you came across the phrase "Astral-syphilis", in the context of a Firefox update, and DIDN'T automatically assume that was from me?
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@lorne-kates Oh ****, you have just exposed me as a fraud of a Daily WTF user. Or just as a self-centered asshole who can't be arsed to learn who thinks what on a forum. I hope this doesn't disqualify me for lounge status.
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@medinoc said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
@lorne-kates Oh ****, you have just exposed me as a fraud of a Daily WTF user. Or just as a self-centered asshole who can't be arsed to learn who thinks what on a forum. I hope this doesn't disqualify me for lounge status.
I'll be around shortly with the baseball bat and portable-tub full of lye.
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@el_heffe said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
Today's fun exercise:
Go to mozilla.org and try to download Firefox. You can do it, but it's about as non-obvious as they can possibly make it.
(1) Scroll down the page looking for a download link. Click on the link that says
Get Firefox
. Scroll to the bottom of that page and there's a link that saysDownload Firefox
. Click it and . . . . fooled you!! . . . it's just a link to the page you're on.(2) Just below that fake download link is a link that says
Desktop Browser
. Let's try that. It takes you to a page with lots of stuff telling you how wonderful Firefox is.(3) Scroll to the bottom of that page and there's a link that says
Download Firefox
. Click it and it takes you to the page you were on at the end of step #1(4) Go back to that page with all the stuff about how wonderful Firefox is. At the top of the page is a link that says
Support
. On the Support page click on the big square that saysFirefox
. That takes you to a page with a big green button that saysFirefox free download
.Finally!! We made it.
(5) Click the big green download button and it takes you to . . . . . the page you were on at the end of in step #1 above. A page with no working download link.
(6) Go back to the Support page. Under the big green download button is a link that says
Systems and Languages
in a gray font on a gray background (because that's so easy to read). Click on it and it takes you to the page where you can actually download Firefox.I guess I must've done it wrong, because it worked perfectly when I tried it.
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@anotherusername I rather think at this point we need @El_Heffe to provide substantiating evidence to support his complaint.
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@tsaukpaetra said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
@anotherusername I rather think at this point we need @El_Heffe to provide substantiating evidence to support his complaint.
Here you go.
As posted by @Tsaukpaetra
What I get when I go there right now:
As posted by @Tsaukpaetra
The URL for that page, according to his screenshot is https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/
What I see there right now:
If I scroll down to the bottom of the page shown in the screenshot above, I see this:
Let's take a look at those links:
The
Download Firefox
link points to https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/ which is the page you're on. It's a link that goes nowhere.Conclusion? They know I mostly use Palemoon (UA is spoofed to Firefox) and they're trolling me?
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@el_heffe said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
(UA is spoofed to Firefox)
Maybe they don't expect people to download firefox with firefox? No idea why, though...
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@lb_ No, if you're on release-train Firefox they give you a "Congratulations, you're up to date!" or "Whoa, you're out of date!" message and links to a fresh download and the Reset Firefox documentation. Maybe they think @El_Heffe is in an environment where "someone else" is handling your Firefox updates? It's intended for e.g. Debian distros where the distro maintainers take on that role, but because of Palemoon's tweaks I can see that becoming the Palemoon devs!
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@twelvebaud said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
@lb_ No, if you're on release-train Firefox they give you a "Congratulations, you're up to date!" or "Whoa, you're out of date!" message and links to a fresh download and the Reset Firefox documentation. Maybe they think @El_Heffe is in an environment where "someone else" is handling your Firefox updates? It's intended for e.g. Debian distros where the distro maintainers take on that role, but because of Palemoon's tweaks I can see that becoming the Palemoon devs!
It's also possible that this page checks that the user agent matches Firefox's and then uses some Firefox-only JavaScript to do version detection, which fails on Pale Moon.
I can't reproduce it though, as this is Pale Moon 27.4.2 (32-bit), whose About window says it's the latest version.
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@el_heffe said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
The URL for that page, according to his screenshot is https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/
What I see there right now:
You wouldn't happen to have an adblocker that's interacting with the page in any strange ways?
I do see that "discover..." message, but it's hidden by a stylesheet... by
/media/css/firefox_new_scene1-bundle.3719c40c91cc.css
, to be exact. That stylesheet link is added in the page's source (i.e. not added at runtime by Javascript). What do you see when you inspect it?
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@anotherusername Ah, that explains it. It thinks @El_Heffe must be using a FirefoxOS phone. And since FirefoxOS is dead, there are no updates and never will be.
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@el_heffe Looks like the button is being blocked by something, prolly an extension.
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@erufael said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
@el_heffe Looks like the button is being blocked by something, prolly an extension.
If it's blocking a button that would update firefox, I'm guessing the extension is "Unfuck Firefox".
amiright?
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@lorne-kates said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
"Unfuck Firefox".
I joke, but srsly, first result.
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@lb_ said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
@el_heffe said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
(UA is spoofed to Firefox)
Maybe they don't expect people to download firefox with firefox?
That appears to be the case.
I always have Palemoon set to report its UA as Firefox because of some retarded websites that refuse to deal with an "unknown" browser. So, going back to the Mozilla pages I find:
UA set as Firefox -- no download buttons.
UA set to default (Palemoon) -- big green download buttons all over the place.
Also, regardless of the UA, they still have a bunch of links that go nowhere, i.e., the link points to the page you're currently on. Those links aren't needed because you can just use the big green download buttons, but still, WTF is the deal with those stupid links that go nowhere. This is something I've noticed on quite a few websites, not just Mozilla.
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@el_heffe said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
Also, regardless of the UA, they still have a bunch of links that go nowhere, i.e., the link points to the page you're currently on. Those links aren't needed because you can just use the big green download buttons, but still, WTF is the deal with those stupid links that go nowhere. This is something I've noticed on quite a few websites, not just Mozilla.
Their footer just appears to be the same for each page of their website. If you click on the About page you'll see the same.
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@jbert said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
@el_heffe said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
Also, regardless of the UA, they still have a bunch of links that go nowhere, i.e., the link points to the page you're currently on. Those links aren't needed because you can just use the big green download buttons, but still, WTF is the deal with those stupid links that go nowhere. This is something I've noticed on quite a few websites, not just Mozilla.
Their footer just appears to be the same for each page of their website. If you click on the About page you'll see the same.
Did you know? Clicking the site map link on the site map page does nothing! Whargarblahgerfagaraagrf!
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@tsaukpaetra said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
Clicking the site map link on the site map page does nothing!
Just like a lot of Firefox's features
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@zecc said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
https://www.google.pt/search?q=devserver&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&guid=676f6464616d6d6974&dotnet_cli_telemetry_optout=0&pylons_constructed=over9000
Surely that is what you actually wanted. Google did extensive A/B testing on it, so it must be.
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@lorne-kates said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
You can't customize the top-bar?
You can. I'm talking about the menu. I have 3 useful items in there and now they will be replaced by zillion non-useful items.
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This is a good Firefox start menu tile. A+ would use again.
This is the current Firefox start menu tile. Pretty anemic, but ... eh, it's okay.
This is the new Firefox start menu tile. OMG DID YOU LET ALEX FAABORG AT THE FINGERPAINT AGAIN?
And the senior reviewer's name is "dogefox". Seriously? Seriously.
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@zecc said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
@el_heffe said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
Beginning with Firefox 57, Mozilla will hide the search bar and will use one singular input bar, just like . . . . wait for it . . . . wait for it . . . . here it comes . . . . . JUST LIKE CHROME.
Not this shit. I don't want to type devserver and have it sent to the googles just because devserver is down.
Fortunately if you've visited http://devserver more than once in ever, Chrome will know you're typing a URL not a search term.
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@twelvebaud While I definitely like the venerable middle one best, I still like the new one.
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@twelvebaud said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
@anotherusername Ah, that explains it. It thinks @El_Heffe must be using a FirefoxOS phone. And since FirefoxOS is dead, there are no updates and never will be.
Shame on you, @El_Heffe for using a mobile browser on the desktop!
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@el_heffe said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
Looks like the 7 people still using Firefox are going to be pissed
Firefox Active Daily Installations:
So you're telling me that YOY installs might have not been in sync?
I hate Firefox but this graph still seems not really helpful.
Full Disclosure: I"m only about 6 posts into the thread
EDIT: I'm also done trying to read the between messages ... it's dumb even for this place
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@sloosecannon said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
Fortunately if you've visited http://devserver more than once in ever, Chrome will know you're typing a URL not a search term.
Unfortunately I'm using Firefox.
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@twelvebaud said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
This is a good Firefox start menu tile. A+ would use again.
I disagree, it makes it look like in addition to all the other fuckery, Firefox went Metro.
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@medinoc During the period of time that tile was in use, you could start Firefox in Metro mode, as part of the prep for Firefox on WinRT. But then Microsoft and Mozilla both went "nah..."
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@rad131304 said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
So you're telling me that YOY installs might have not been in sync?
If I'm not mistaken, "active daily installations" means the number of installed copies that were actually used in a given day. So it's not really just comparing the number of times it was installed.
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@anotherusername No I get that - it's tracking YOY installs by day. I still don't see how this is a useful metric since it's a relative year to year comparison that has tons of factors not tracked by this information. What was happening last year that might have spiked installs? Is there a reason installs might be depressed relative to baseline now? Without long term data or decent error information this graph is not particularly helpful.
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@rad131304 no... that's not what I said.
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@rad131304 said in How will you deal with the coming Firefox apocalypse?:
YOY
Does that stand for "Why, oh why, did I install this?"
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@anotherusername Ok - then can you elaborate?