We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with
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@Mikael_Svahnberg said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
More specialists. Things that are done by a nurse in other countries is done by a doctor in the US.
Overtreatment. For fear of litigation, it is better to treat than to wait.
Drug costs, and the rules for who is allowed to negotiate prices.
Complex administrative system. One example that is touted is Duke University hospital with 900 beds and 1300 people employed to figure out whom to bill for different illnesses.YES. Someone gets it.
Every time I hear, but this country with the single payer spends less on healthcare.... it's not the single payer. It's everything else they did. Insurance holds the demand and therefore limits the supply. You can't magic in more healthcare by tweaking insurance values.
@Mikael_Svahnberg said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
And if it is mandated once and for all that a health insurance should cover EVERY instance where you might need to seek medical care, you will cut through plenty of red tape.
No, you'll just see more claims denied.
@Jaloopa said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
For all of its problems, the NHS guarantees that if I need to see a doctor I don't have to worry if I can afford it or if it's better to wait until after payday when whatever I have may have got worse and more expensive to treat
I'm willing to bet I could run down to the hospital, tell them I can't afford to pay right now, and they'd offer all kinds of options to help me pay the expenses.
So, the waiting argument is not really valid to our context.
@Yamikuronue said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
I've seen a lot more use of online consultations; you pay a flat fee to talk to a nurse over webcam for twenty minutes, and they can write prescriptions for basic things like sudafedren, or they can talk you through how to wrap and ice a sprained ankle. That seems super cool and useful, as long as the price stays down (for me it's $40 a consultation; I'd prefer it be half that if I was in college still)
Yes. This too.
@masonwheeler said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
It does plenty to address problems with price gouging on drugs that have been around for decades, just for starters.
Something needs to be done to curtail placing costs on existing medications that people have been using and need to survive.
I've said that, just letting the government contract out to generic manufacturers that only produce generics and do no research, could help keep the competition in place.
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@xaade said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
they'd offer all kinds of options to help me pay the expenses
The hospital would also charge you about 4x as much.
The small doctor's office won't see you if you can't pay your copay, usually.
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@Yamikuronue said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
The small doctor's office won't see you if you can't pay your copay, usually.
Really? Twice in my life I have went to the doctor and forgotten my wallet or debit card, etc. Both times they sent me a bill and did not turn me away.
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@Polygeekery said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
@LaoC said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
@Polygeekery said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
I would wager that cavewomen were probably trading food and fur for access to their lady bits, and that is prostitution and prostitution is capitalism.
If there's a better example for means of productions
in the hands of*cough*owned by the workers I don't know what is.[I have no idea how to respond to that .gif]
He's trying to say that the women are being owned by the men.
If that's true, then I don't think that demonstrates understanding of financial transaction for services rendered. Ownership would imply the men pay nothing.
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@Polygeekery That's different than "I don't have $X in my account" though. I mean, I could be wrong here, most of my doctors are through a hospital now anyway, but I seem to recall back when I was in uni that they had policies where you had to present your copay or you'd not be seen.
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@Yamikuronue said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
@Polygeekery That's different than "I don't have $X in my account" though. I mean, I could be wrong here, most of my doctors are through a hospital now anyway, but I seem to recall back when I was in uni that they had policies where you had to present your copay or you'd not be seen.
Back when the copay was $25?
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@Polygeekery said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
Really? Twice in my life I have went to the doctor and forgotten my wallet or debit card, etc. Both times they sent me a bill and did not turn me away.
And one time I called to ask a question about the amount of a bill, having said nothing else, and they asked me if I'd like a payment program.
I would say this. We need service locations to be more specific about whether they're ER or Urgent Care.
ER is usually 10x the price, but sometimes you can't know unless you ask. I usually ask if the bill will be closer to $100 or $900, and the times that the names were reversed was horrifying.
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@xaade said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
He's trying to say that the women are being owned by the men.
No, I think he was trying to say that women have the exclusive supply of vagina, and he was right. Guacamole thread notwithstanding.
@xaade said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
If that's true
In cavemen days, it probably was, and they would have needed feminism. But, cavemen were basically animals.
@xaade said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
then I don't think that demonstrates understanding of financial transaction for services rendered
That is how I should have responded to it, but he got in a good shot and it was witty. Which...is pretty uncharacteristic of @LaoC, but credit where it is due.
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@Yamikuronue said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
I seem to recall back when I was in uni that they had policies where you had to present your copay or you'd not be seen.
The doctors I see must have different policies. They all ask you to pay when you are leaving, as you book any follow-up appointments and such.
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@xaade said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
So, the waiting argument is not really valid to our context
So it's possible to not have to wait. Does that mean people always go to the doctors immediately rather than hoping they can pay in one hit next week, or save money on the off chance their ailment goes away?
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@masonwheeler said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
It does plenty to address problems with price gouging on drugs that have been around for decades, just for starters.
Not based on what you revealed.
@masonwheeler said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
You believe the process is currently as efficient as it could possibly be, or reasonably close to it?
I think there are some problems with its efficiency, but not that would make serious dents in the costs. If anything, it might increase spending on drugs due to getting stuff to market quicker.
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@Jaloopa said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
save money on the off chance their ailment goes away?
You need to realize how much of this is actually necessary.
Americans have this fixation with running to the doctor for unreasonable things.
And please don't blow up on me for saying that, like I'm not realizing how hard it is to be poor. Try sitting in an ER room for a while.
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@Weng said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
Admittedly, I did fail to get this at the appropriate time for lowball jokes.
Hey, now, don't blame me for your ! Or, wait, yeah, I guess I did you.
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@Jaloopa said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
So it's possible to not have to wait.
You are glossing over this point as though it is not a valid one. The flabby Australian posted a site that tracks Australian healthcare statistics and it was a ~100 day wait to see a neurologist for an urgent need. That is too long to wait. That is unacceptable to me. That is a failure of the system and that is not providing care.
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@Jaloopa said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
the butler in Tintin
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@asdf said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
@Karla said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
This is why due process for terrorists should still be a thing.
I'm pretty sure @boomzilla has a zero tolerance policy for lawn terrorists that involves treating them like enemy combatants. We can consider ourselves lucky if he adheres to the Geneva Conventions!
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@Polygeekery said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
~100 day wait to see a neurologist for an urgent need. That is too long to wait. That is unacceptable to me. That is a failure of the system and that is not providing care.
Funny that it's always been government that's told me that mental health doesn't really need coverage.
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@Polygeekery All my doctors ask up front as you check in, but I go to one of the big-name award-winning hospitals, they have a ton of resources for easy payments and payment plans and whatnot.
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@Jaloopa said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
@xaade said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
So, the waiting argument is not really valid to our context
So it's possible to not have to wait. Does that mean people always go to the doctors immediately rather than hoping they can pay in one hit next week, or save money on the off chance their ailment goes away?
Ok, look.
You're either limiting demand by higher prices, or you're limiting supply by having single payer control the demand.
Both result in waits. It's just that one results in the ability to pay not to wait, and the other results in the ability to pay TWICE not to wait (once through taxes).
Like I said, you can't magic in more supply by tweaking insurance. It all comes down to money.
You can, however, hit two birds with one stone by addressing the actual causes of higher medical care costs. Which the single payer countries usually do in conjunction with single payer.
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@Yamikuronue my GP is with a huge hospital chain.
I have one even better than that, actually. I once called in for an appointment when my sinusitis was acting up. My doctor was very accommodating and fit me in at the end of the day even though they were completely booked. When we went to leave, all of the desk staff were gone. We were the last two in the building, so no one was available to check me out. I told him that they could just send a bill or call me the following day and I could pay over the phone. He told me not to worry about it and I never paid the copay at all.
I guess from his perspective they had the majority of the money. He was not worried about the $20 copay.
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Final line of the purple text:
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@xaade said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
Americans have this fixation with running to the doctor for unreasonable things
That is a problem, and it affects the NHS as well. It's not an easy thing to fix, but making it prohibitively expensive to get healthcare when you do need it seems like the wrong way to go about it. Cheap online consultations with nurses seem like a good approach, and the UK also has 111, which you can call to get advice on whether you should go to a doctor or not.
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@Polygeekery said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
@Weng said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
I'd call it a significant minority rather than a majority.
Maybe, but I have consistently referred to it as the Affordable Care Act, and have been consistently met with blank stares when saying it.
Maybe you should use the actual name?
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@Polygeekery said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
John Nestor. I said the name right in my post.
Seriously though:
How does that have anything at all to do with anything I said?
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@boomzilla said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
@Polygeekery said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
@Weng said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
I'd call it a significant minority rather than a majority.
Maybe, but I have consistently referred to it as the Affordable Care Act, and have been consistently met with blank stares when saying it.
Maybe you should use the actual name?
Nah. PATRIOT is better than USA-PATRIOT.
ACA is better then PP-ACA.
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@Jaloopa said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
That is a problem, and it affects the NHS as well. It's not an easy thing to fix, but making it prohibitively expensive to get healthcare when you do need it seems like the wrong way to go about it.
But...it isn't.
Those are cash prices, if you have no form of insurance or assistance. A lot of private health insurance, pre-ACA, covered such clinics at 100% because the costs were so much cheaper for them versus GP or ER visits.
@Jaloopa said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
Cheap online consultations with nurses seem like a good approach, and the UK also has 111, which you can call to get advice on whether you should go to a doctor or not.
I cannot speak for all areas, but our two largest hospital chains in this area offer those services for free. You can call their hotlines at any hour and get an assessment on whether you need care or not and what sort of facility you should go to if you need to. It was great when we had our first little one home and he got a fever for the first time, to be able to call and speak to a nurse that said everything seemed fine and to reassess in the morning.
We have those services. People just don't use them. And making healthcare "free" will not drive down costs. Costs will rise because if it is "free", fuck it, go to the doctor for everything.
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@boomzilla said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
Maybe you should use the actual name?
Maybe no. It is long enough to say "Affordable Care Act".
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@masonwheeler said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
How does that have anything at all to do with anything I said?
I just wanted to make fun of your views on driving and drug approval processes.
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@Jaloopa said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
@xaade said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
Americans have this fixation with running to the doctor for unreasonable things
That is a problem, and it affects the NHS as well. It's not an easy thing to fix
Especially since it comes on the back of a huge societal trend of saying that a lot of problems can be treated easily when diagnosed early, which means at a stage when they are nothing more than an unreasonable thing (in other words: if you go to the doctor because you have a mole that you never noticed before, are you running to the doctor for unreasonable thing, or getting sure it's not a cancer?). Sure, there are obvious nut cases, your mole can wait a couple of days (or weeks) and doesn't need a visit to the ER, but it's difficult to get it right, especially for non-medically-educated people (i.e. the majority of the population!).
Cheap online consultations with nurses will only go so far with this kind of things, if they were able to diagnose everything they'd be doctors, not nurses... This kind of early-triaging can probably be a huge improvement on the current situation, but it has to be done carefully (e.g. do not put any kind of target numbers to not send to GP or other stupid performance assessment!).
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@asdf said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
I'm pretty sure @boomzilla has a zero tolerance policy for lawn terrorists that involves treating them like enemy combatants. We can consider ourselves lucky if he adheres to the Geneva Conventions!
Geneva Conventions? That's a Euro-weenies thing! Unless you're talking Geneva, IL, or AL, or NY, or...
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@Polygeekery said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
@Yamikuronue said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
The small doctor's office won't see you if you can't pay your copay, usually.
Really? Twice in my life I have went to the doctor and forgotten my wallet or debit card, etc. Both times they sent me a bill and did not turn me away.
It varies. I worked in doctor's offices while in college and some required patients to pay up front, some did not. I don't think we ever turned anyone away, though, but it was a PITA to get people to pay afterwards. Some would not stop by the desk on the way out and billing for $10 or whatever...ugh...waste of time.
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@Weng said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
Nah. PATRIOT is better than USA-PATRIOT.
ACA is better then PP-ACA.Obamacare beats them all.
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@remi said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
Geneva Conventions? That's a Euro-weenies thing! Unless you're talking Geneva, IL, or AL, or NY, or...
Hey, if they come onto my lawn in the uniform of their country's military then we can talk Geneva Convention rights. Otherwise stop complaining about Guantanamo Shed.
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@boomzilla said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
Hey, if they come onto my lawn in the uniform of their country's military
Do you mean like this?
http://catholicleader.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/20150209cnsph080.jpg
(I love how the armor has a nice bulge for the belly, as if to recognize that wearers of that armor are more likely to spend time drinking and eating than running and fighting :-D )Or like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDx0vfMbWVs
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@remi I'm flexible. Either way is fine if that's what they think they want.
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@Polygeekery said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
No, I think he was trying to say that women have the exclusive supply of vagina, and he was right. Guacamole thread notwithstanding.
Being a trans woman in the upper paleolithic era must have been tough.
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@xaade said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
Americans have this fixation with running to the doctor for unreasonable things.
I'm not American, but I've been "trained" all my life to always trust the doctor, and only the doctor.
If suddenly my leg starts feeling funny, my only choices are to hope it's nothing, or go to the doctor. Because self-diagnosis is forbidden. And my health care system does not have any remote diagnosis or anything like that.
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@cheong said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
herbal medicine
@cheong said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
ancient Chinese
@cheong said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
herbal doctor
You spelled "witch doctor" wrong.
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Pretty simple really ... NHS.
England is your Daddy, America we had over 2000 years to figure it out and you think you can do it in a couple of hundred.
LOLZ
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@RaceProUK said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
@Luhmann Or if they're British, then they're from GCHQ.
You British are mighty kinky.
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@Shoreline said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
@richw said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
I don't understand why there cannot be a sensible insurance scheme (in the UK) and then have competing providers.
Because capitalism doesn't fix everything. In fact it seems to result in greedy monopolists lobbying the government.
But that's not capitalism - it's corporatism. And I agree, it stinks.
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@RaceProUK said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
Private medical insurance is very much available in the UK (e.g. BUPA), but that's meant to sit alongside the NHS itself to cover stuff the NHS doesn't.
It's an unfair system. I already pay significant money into the NHS (it's taken by force) and then if I want something better, I have to pay again.
Imagine if we all were forced to pay one supermarket. Do you think the others would get a fair shot?
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@asdf said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
@cheong said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
Let's understand that most of the time, people visit doctor for cold or flu, which most doctor will only prescribe medicine that reliefs the symptoms, let you have more rest and recover yourself. By triage these "common cases" that can be readily replaced by herbal doctor
The risk there is that those herbal doctors might not be qualified to recognize the signs of serious and rare diseases, which can often be mistaken as something harmless. There's a reason why GPs exist.
Once upon a time, all doctors are herbal doctors (okay, some were fake doctors that claims solely using God or whoever's power can cure people but I'm not counting them).
The only thing matter is experience. In Chinese, apprentice of doctor need to "practical training" (when they have to diagnose their each and every of their patients in front of their master, then have the patient double verify the diagnosis and correct them if they got it wrong) for at least years after they can recite all the medical books their master appointed to them (usually another years). Unlike western doctors, you cannot train lots of doctors this way (usually one-to-five at most, or the apprentice will be accused as "not given enough practical training").
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@richw said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
I already pay significant money into the NHS (it's taken by force) and then if I want something better, I have to pay again.
If I understand you right, you object to paying for a guaranteed minimum level of service, and then paying more for optional extras?
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"We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with"
literally ANY of the hundreds of socialized health-care systems used throughout the civilized world, all of which are better than the for-profit, barbaric practice of "u sick, u poor, u die".
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@lucas1 said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
we had over 2000 years to figure it out
So you think England was created at year 1 or something?
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@fbmac said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
@lucas1 said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
we had over 2000 years to figure it out
So you think England was created at year 1 or something?
If this was the trolleybus garage, I'd claim that lucas' statement is somehow racist against native Americans.
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@fbmac no, Jesus created the NHS
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@Lorne-Kates said in We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with:
"We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with"
literally ANY of the hundreds of socialized health-care systems used throughout the civilized world, all of which are better than the for-profit, barbaric practice of "u sick, u poor, u die".
OK, but our current system is better than that barbaric practice and the socialized crap.