The new Nintendo Switch
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@RaceProUK said in The new Nintendo Switch:
@abarker Still not as good as the back-compat on older consoles, which could play pretty much the entire library straight from the disc/cart.
True, but better than what anyone else has.
The thing is, they wanted to make some massive hardware and software changes that forced them into a corner with back-compat: either include a 360 VM, or build a system that allows for small emulation wrappers around each game. The first option would probably have been a huge technical hurdle and the One most likely wasn't designed for that kind of scenario, not to mention that it would have eaten up a huge chunk of disk space. The second option was still technically complex, and it also has the added problem of adding legal complications due to IP ownership, but it limited the disk space impact and was more certainly within the limitations of the console.
Of course they went for the second option, and maybe they were working on it before the One released. But they probably didn't put it at the top of the priority list, and it was probably delayed by the legal team trying to work everything out (plus, they wanted to sell at least a few remastered packages, like the Halo Master Chief collection). But they got it all working, and it was a huge win.
In any case, there was really only one full generation of consoles that boasted back-compat. Before that, back-compat was practically unheard of. Most of the bitching and moaning is because of that one generation, and now it will be expected to be part of every console for all of time.
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@abarker said in The new Nintendo Switch:
The thing is, they wanted to make some massive hardware and software changes that forced them into a corner with back-compat
Didn't stop them with the X360 (PowerPC) having back-compat with the original XBox (x86) at launch. Nor did it stop early PS3s (Cell) doing the same for PS2 ('Emotion Engine' MIPS) and PS1 (normal MIPS) at launch.
@abarker said in The new Nintendo Switch:
In any case, there was really only one full generation of consoles that boasted back-compat. Before that, back-compat was practically unheard of.
That is true. The only back-compat I'm aware of is Game Boy Color -> Game Boy (built-in), and Genesis -> Master System (which required an add-on).
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@abarker said in The new Nintendo Switch:
The thing is, they wanted to make some massive hardware and software changes that forced them into a corner with back-compat: either include a 360 VM, or build a system that allows for small emulation wrappers around each game.
they could have done what nintendo did with the Wii and literally include the last gen console inside the case (yep. there's actually a gamecube in the first gen Wii consoles. that's actually a really neat bit of ahrdware they did there to let the two console share the disc drive and access to the game cube controller ports. :-)
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@accalia Sony also did that with the PS2 IIRC, and the Genesis I know for a fact has a full Master System inside it (the Master's CPU is a Z80, which is the Genesis' sound co-processor, the Master's sound chip is in the Genesis, and the Genesis VDU is the same as the Master's, just with an extra video mode or two).
I am a serious Sega nerd.
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@accalia said in The new Nintendo Switch:
literally include the last gen console inside the case
Wasn't the Wii mostly just a slightly upclocked Gamecube anyway? With the new controllers, OS and bigger disc drive
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@Jaloopa They're both PowerPC machines, as is the Wii U
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@RaceProUK said in The new Nintendo Switch:
I am a serious Sega nerd.
you'd like my friend Gus. He's the one who told me Sega had internal competition between their Japanese and American divisions, to the extent that there were two Dreamcast models created to the point either could have been released, before one was chosen as the actual release Dreamcast
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@Jaloopa I've heard about that. Kinda one of the reasons their console business went under, in fact. That, and the fact they released the 32X, the Saturn, and the Dreamcast in very quick succession, completely dropping support for the one that got replaced when they did so.
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Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Odyssey look pretty good to me. I'm disappointed about the paid online services, though. But hey - region free games!
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@LB_ said in The new Nintendo Switch:
I'm disappointed about the paid online services
It's a shame the one area they're catching up to Sony and Microsoft is that area. Still, if it improves their online services to the point where they're actually usable, then it's not so bad.
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@Jaloopa said in The new Nintendo Switch:
He's the one who told me Sega had internal competition between their Japanese and American divisions
That reminds me:
A pretty interesting read that I somehow dropped halfway through. Should probably get back to that sometime.
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@accalia said in The new Nintendo Switch:
@abarker said in The new Nintendo Switch:
The thing is, they wanted to make some massive hardware and software changes that forced them into a corner with back-compat: either include a 360 VM, or build a system that allows for small emulation wrappers around each game.
they could have done what nintendo did with the Wii and literally include the last gen console inside the case (yep. there's actually a gamecube in the first gen Wii consoles. that's actually a really neat bit of ahrdware they did there to let the two console share the disc drive and access to the game cube controller ports. :-)
Isn't that also what the first-gen PS3 did? And then they switched to emulation for the second-gen (first slim)?
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@abarker said in The new Nintendo Switch:
Before that, back-compat was practically unheard of.
You never had a Gameboy/Color/Advance/DS?
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@aliceif said in The new Nintendo Switch:
@abarker said in The new Nintendo Switch:
Before that, back-compat was practically unheard of.
You never had a Gameboy/Color/Advance/DS?
I said practically, not totally.
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@accalia said in The new Nintendo Switch:
AAA games range from 60ish GB for games such as GTA V
Our "game" is 30 Gb and contains a park, a kinda-museum thing, and an art studio.
No, I don't know what's taking up all that data.
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- First gen PS3 had the PS2 CPU and graphics processor in it.
- Second gen PS3 had the PS2 graphics processor in it.
- Third gen and later PS3 had neither and dropped PS2 support entirely.
I'm guessing PS1 support was emulation on all PS3 versions.
On a side note because someone else mentioned it, WoW was only 45GB or so right after Legion launched.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The new Nintendo Switch:
No, I don't know what's taking up all that data.
Textures?
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@Magus said in The new Nintendo Switch:
@powerlord I imagine they're going with digital distribution for old titles, and that the dock has a port for the motion bar (after all, that stuff wouldn't make any sense portable).
Oooooooh that would be enough to sell me if I didn't think that their store is going to be an unholy shitshow.
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@coldandtired said in The new Nintendo Switch:
@RaceProUK said in The new Nintendo Switch:
PS3
That's a pretty short memory. The early US versions had the Emotion engine inside. When it came to Europe a year later this had been replaced by software emulation. About six months after that they removed it completely.
The Xbone seems to be heading in the right direction.
Microsoft need to come to terms with the fact that they're offering a shit storefront on an expensive dongle and just port it over to windows.
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@asdf said in The new Nintendo Switch:
The fact that they didn't say anything about backwards compatibility at all leads me to the conclusion that controllers will not be compatible at all and that there will be no migration path from the Wii U.
The only migration path for console games: get a good PC, wait for emulators to get better, torrent the game and play. You can also throw in a few extra games as fair compensation for your trouble.
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@anonymous234 the first GameCube emulator that could be considered usable came out in 2007. The best PS2 emulator entered beta stage in 2010, and had 1.0 release in 2012. The only 3DS emulator in existence came out last year and can't boot most games, let alone play. Waiting for emulators is only viable for people with infinite time.
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@Gąska Yes, sadly most emulators are open source projects developed by people in their spare time. Even the "mature" ones tend to be crappy in their own ways (usually the UI is terrible).
If someone were willing to actually invest money into developing them, things could be different. But could that ever be profitable? I doubt you could get many people to pay even $10 for a good DS or Wii emulator.
I thought maybe if you sold your own hardware, like a "retro console" of sorts that you could plug into the TV and Just Worked™, you could make some money, but turns out this has existed for a while and I doubt they are rolling in money.
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I've taken the easy route and only buy exclusives for my PS* (usually Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank, and God of War).
The rest I just wait for them to be inevitably almost given away on one of the various bundle sites and buy them for the PC (Assassin's Creed bundle at the moment, for example).
The drawback is that now I have all the Lego games for the PC, I have to schedule a time with my kids when I can use my computer :(
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@anonymous234 said in The new Nintendo Switch:
@Gąska Yes, sadly most emulators are open source projects developed by people in their spare time.
Mostly because they border on being illegal, and there's almost no money to make in this niche - if someone could pay for an emulator, there's a fair chance they could also pay for a console (which after such a long time, is dirt cheap).
@coldandtired said in The new Nintendo Switch:
The drawback is that now I have all the Lego games for the PC, I have to schedule a time with my kids when I can use my computer :(
Can't you just get a second PC? If your goal is Lego games, it should be well within $100.
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@RaceProUK said in The new Nintendo Switch:
@Tsaukpaetra said in The new Nintendo Switch:
No, I don't know what's taking up all that data.
Textures?
Ok, yes, pedantically speaking yes, there's a cook summary that says yes textures are a majority, but which textures are the question. The grass? The trees? Stuff that was created years ago and merely forgotten?
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@Tsaukpaetra main and secondary cast, along with the location of opening sequence, likely takes half of overall texture space. Basically - everything unique is unique, and everything generic is reused from previous levels. A generic house has generic brick wall texture, but your house has your brick wall texture.
Remember that 7 out of 10 statistics are made up.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The new Nintendo Switch:
Stuff that was created years ago and merely forgotten?
There's probably a 20GB folder somewhere named "testing something - delete before shipping" containing 266,065 identical images of Grumpy Cat.
No one was completely sure if it was safe to delete it so they included it just in case.
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@Gąska said in The new Nintendo Switch:
@anonymous234 said in The new Nintendo Switch:
@Gąska Yes, sadly most emulators are open source projects developed by people in their spare time.
Mostly because they border on being illegal, and there's almost no money to make in this niche - if someone could pay for an emulator, there's a fair chance they could also pay for a console (which after such a long time, is dirt cheap).
There are quite a few emulators on the android store charging for their wares so there is some money in them.
I like what Nintendo did with their mini nes recently. Sold out immediately and can now be bought for twice the price on ebay.
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@DogsB said in The new Nintendo Switch:
There are quite a few emulators on the android store charging for their wares so there is some money in them.
There are quite a few of flashlight apps on the Android Store with microtransactions, too.
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Total Wank.
Nintendo really needs to create titles that you would by the console for. I bought my PS4 for the newest uncharted.
Another fucking Mario or Zelda isn't going to cut it. They need to come up with OG property.
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This post is deleted!
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@Gąska said in The new Nintendo Switch:
@DogsB said in The new Nintendo Switch:
There are quite a few emulators on the android store charging for their wares so there is some money in them.
There are quite a few of flashlight apps on the Android Store with microtransactions, too.
Proving that there is a market for everything?
@lucas1 funnily enough Zelda is the system seller for me but its on the Wii u too so I'll probably pick it up for that. I didn't bother with the Wii because Twilight Princess came out on GameCube so with that in mind I'll probably skip this generation too.
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@DogsB I don't understand how people can play basically the same game again and the buy another £300 console to play it again.
They aren't even that good of a game.
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@DogsB said in The new Nintendo Switch:
Proving that there is a market for everything?
Only for things that are either trivial or previously done (making GBA emulator is fairly simple after VBA has been open sourced and ported to ARM, hence myriads of GBA emulators on Google Play).
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@lucas1 said in The new Nintendo Switch:
I don't understand how people can play basically the same game again and the buy another £300 console to play it again.
@lucas1 said in The new Nintendo Switch:
I bought my PS4 for the newest uncharted.
So I guess the previous 3 parts on PS3 didn't cut it?
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@Maciejasjmj I didn't buy the PS1 and the PS2 for uncharted.
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@lucas1 said in The new Nintendo Switch:
I didn't buy the PS1 and the PS2 for uncharted.
Well, if you bought PS1 and PS2 for Uncharted, we'd ridicule you even more.
Filed under: "you said it's on PlayStation, I bought a PlayStation, what do you mean it won't run?"
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@Maciejasjmj If you are going to take the piss about purchasing decisions at least get your timeline right.
I bought the PS4 when it was on offer with Uncharted 4. But I saw this game and wanted to play it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBTNDdwVsMk
And a load of 2d fighters.
Also why isn't there a Blood Dragon 2?
BTW I own a gamecube and bought it for RE4
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i built a gaming rig so that i could run excel at 1080p/60fps
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@bb36e No you didn't. BTW I have seen excel running past 4k. Sorry fucker the piss taking doesn't work that way.
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@lucas1 well lookie here at Mr Richy rich with his Titan X!
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@bb36e I am a 960GTX peasant.
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@lucas1 said in The new Nintendo Switch:
@bb36e No you didn't. BTW I have seen excel running past 4k. Sorry fucker the piss taking doesn't work that way.
Better than those people who buy $2000 PC and play Counter Strike at 800x600 so they can squeeze those 300FPS (that's five times their refresh rate! Awesome, huh?)
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@Gąska But are you running 144hz Flat Screens?
If not just kill yourself you fucking peasant.
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This encapsulates how I feel about the Switch and how Nintendo views customers:
https://media.giphy.com/media/l0Exdh01otlonUb5K/source.gif
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@MathNerdCNU Is that seriously something they're releasing on the console?
Also, the guy on the right is… I don't know what that face is he's making.
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@RaceProUK it's not a standalone game, just one of a collection of mini games.
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@RaceProUK That's from the 1 2 Switch game which showcases the HD Rumble stuff. Switch's version of Wii Sports, not bundled, priced at $50.
I'm not convinced that mini-game, and even the Treehouse presentation isn't some kind of internal troll on the upper management. Dude on the left looks like he didn't get the memo it was simulate milking a cow; not milk the cow and simulate giving the bull fellatio. Then, the dude on right cops a feel of a non-existent cow tit.
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So I can wank off a cow more quickly that before .. while watching brookback mountain
Silly me for thinking it is about the games.
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@MathNerdCNU said in The new Nintendo Switch:
1 2 Switch
@loopback0 said in The new Nintendo Switch:
collection of mini games
Ah, so a modern-day WarioWare then. That makes a lot more sense.
Still not sure what facial expression that dude's making though.