WTF Bites
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@loopback0 said in WTF Bites:
@Tsaukpaetra it's such a petty topic that neither of us wants to look like we care, so we cannot make a dedicated topic, but neither of us wants to quit because it would make it look like we were wrong.
Can we declare you both wrong and all move on?
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Seriously YouTube, I do not speak Korean.
Korean? I'd COMPLAIN about that, if I were you...
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@TimeBandit
in the lounge. And I think in other news today.
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Well, I guess they really did find The Worst Cook in America
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/worst-cooks-america-season-pulled-005936776.html
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I'm 99% sure that back in those days, uppercase-lowercase mappings were tied to specific encodings, and in ISO-8859-9 the uppercase of i was always İ. By which I mean, if you took ISO-8859-9 text and told the text editor to make it all caps, then every i would be replaced with İ, not I.
No doubt software existed that made such assumptions. That doesn't mean it was right to do so.
But was it WRONG to do so? If yes, citation needed.
As you can see in the link I posted, ISO-8859-9 is already defined in terms of Unicode. ISO-8859-9's I is U+0049. The lowercase of U+0049 is i, U+0069, and vice versa.
My point exactly. You need to know whether a given i is Turkish or not to know what you should do with it (programmatically). Whenever two symbols need to be distinguished from one another, they should be encoded differently so the difference isn't lost in transmission.
Ideally yes. That wasn't the case in Latin-5 though, so they could either have broken compatibility or this rule.
And their cargo cult of "compatibility" above all (because there were no practical problems that the change would have caused; nothing in real life would have broken if they made the change) is exactly the problem.
Except that Turkish users are more likely to have trouble with programs originally designed for English than with case-mapping mixed-language text. They'd have to switch keyboard layout to write something like "file" that would be recognized by a program that expects English because the i their regular keyboard produces would look exactly the same but actually be special™.
But there's no way to do that. It's not even just about the code point. Unicode doesn't allow encoding this difference at all. Mixed English-Turkish text will always, always be broken.
No. You can use
COMBINING DOT ABOVEto get i to capitalize to İ even under non-Turkish rules.Okay and how to make I "lowercase" into ı unconditionally? Or into i even in Turkish locale, for that matter?
OK, you can't produce a mixed-language Unicode text that will always case-map both variants correctly.
To fix that universally, you'd need a special symbol for German SS that lowercases to ß, too. Or Danish "aa" that is an alternative spelling of å and uppercases to Aa, not AA.Edit: OK OK, for general entertainment:
WTF, Aliexpress?!
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I'm 99% sure that back in those days, uppercase-lowercase mappings were tied to specific encodings, and in ISO-8859-9 the uppercase of i was always İ. By which I mean, if you took ISO-8859-9 text and told the text editor to make it all caps, then every i would be replaced with İ, not I.
No doubt software existed that made such assumptions. That doesn't mean it was right to do so.
But was it WRONG to do so? If yes, citation needed.
As you can see in the link I posted, ISO-8859-9 is already defined in terms of Unicode. ISO-8859-9's I is U+0049. The lowercase of U+0049 is i, U+0069, and vice versa.
Where in that document does it say so? I read it and haven't seen any mention of uppercase or lowercase at all. That document doesn't define it.
What's with people posting links that they didn't even read?
To fix that universally, you'd need a special symbol for German SS that lowercases to ß, too.
Except uppercase ß doesn't exist. Like, at all. Even in all caps, the rule is to use ß anyway. You don't need a symbol for something that doesn't exist.
(Yes, in recent years ß has been almost completely replaces by ss, but ss isn't a single symbol either, so it only make sense to capitalize it as SS.)
Or Danish "aa" that is an alternative spelling of å and uppercases to Aa, not AA.
Forget uppercase. Does "aa" itself exist as a standalone symbol? Again, you don't need an uppercase of something that doesn't exist. And uppercase of å is Å.
My point exactly. You need to know whether a given i is Turkish or not to know what you should do with it (programmatically). Whenever two symbols need to be distinguished from one another, they should be encoded differently so the difference isn't lost in transmission.
Ideally yes. That wasn't the case in Latin-5 though, so they could either have broken compatibility or this rule.
And their cargo cult of "compatibility" above all (because there were no practical problems that the change would have caused; nothing in real life would have broken if they made the change) is exactly the problem.
Except that Turkish users are more likely to have trouble with programs originally designed for English than with case-mapping mixed-language text. They'd have to switch keyboard layout to write something like "file" that would be recognized by a program that expects English because the i their regular keyboard produces would look exactly the same but actually be special™.
And now we're not talking about encodings or relationships anymore - now we're talking about user experience when typing. And you've hit another pet peeve of mine - the philosophy that standards designers must bend over backwards to appease sloppy programmers, at the expense of the people who know what they're doing being able to do what they want.
So now that we've reached UX, everything is subjective and contradictory statements can both be true at the same time. I'm not a fan of this kind of discussions, so EOT from me.
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tIt was weird to own a Zune in 2005. It is even weirder to own a Zune in 2021 — let alone 16 of them. And yet, 27-year-old Conner Woods proudly shows off his lineup on a kitchen table.
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What problem? Show me an exact scenario where some program would do the wrong thing because of this change when now it does the right thing.
Don't you remember the transition period when ISO-8859-2 and Unicode were used at the same time, often with Windows-1250 and even CP852? It was quite common that applications (especially webservers) accepted any of these on input (files, database) and converted to other three variants, and then back.
Yes, it was
and it's good that Unicode eventually prevailed - but it was a slow process. Lots and lots of people loved their pet 8bit encoding and blocked and waged a holy war about wasteful Unicode. Seriously, some people even clonged to to KOI, Mazovia, Kamenicky bros, etc way into 2000s!So, the rule about full mapping to legacy encodings was a good rule that definitely helped its adoption. It's called realpolitik.
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in WTF Bites:
So, the rule about full mapping to legacy encodings was a good rule that definitely helped its adoption.
Yes, it was. But the problem is they did "legacy mappings" to things that weren't even part of any legacy standards to start with.
FFS I'm done repeating the same thing over and over again.
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in WTF Bites:
So, the rule about full mapping to legacy encodings was a good rule that definitely helped its adoption.
Yes, it was. But the problem is they did "legacy mappings" to things that weren't even part of any legacy standards to start with.
FFS I'm done repeating the same thing over and over again.
Maybe once would be enough, if stated clearly and without moving. Because I have no idea what do you mean by that "weren't part of the legacy mapping". I was under impression that it's still about the "they should have just added lowercase i without dot and uppercase i with dot"
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"congers"
Like this one?
I... guess? I don't have the slightest idea what a congre (conger) looks like, so... probably?
Filed under: all
people of specific ethnicityfishes look the same to me
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Though not conventional, it’s perfectly reasonable to make the definition of “fish” monophyletic – and thus to encompass all people of specific ethnicity.
Therefore, RACIST!!!
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in WTF Bites:
@loopback0 They're not afraid of
state-sponsored hackers 
That's rather "Eat your own dog food".
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FFS I'm done repeating the same thing over and over again.
I really hope that's true this time
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@TimeBandit said in WTF Bites:
tIt was weird to own a Zune in 2005. It is even weirder to own a Zune in 2021 — let alone 16 of them. And yet, 27-year-old Conner Woods proudly shows off his lineup on a kitchen table.
16?! Didn't realise they'd even sold that many.
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I'm 99% sure that back in those days, uppercase-lowercase mappings were tied to specific encodings, and in ISO-8859-9 the uppercase of i was always İ. By which I mean, if you took ISO-8859-9 text and told the text editor to make it all caps, then every i would be replaced with İ, not I.
No doubt software existed that made such assumptions. That doesn't mean it was right to do so.
But was it WRONG to do so? If yes, citation needed.
As you can see in the link I posted, ISO-8859-9 is already defined in terms of Unicode. ISO-8859-9's I is U+0049. The lowercase of U+0049 is i, U+0069, and vice versa.
Where in that document does it say so?
Page 5 and 6.
I read it and haven't seen any mention of uppercase or lowercase at all. That document doesn't define it.
Are you saying it's not defined in terms of Unicode or the case rules in Unicode are not defined that way?
What's with people posting links that they didn't even read?
You tell me.
To fix that universally, you'd need a special symbol for German SS that lowercases to ß, too.
Except uppercase ß doesn't exist. Like, at all. Even in all caps, the rule is to use ß anyway. You don't need a symbol for something that doesn't exist.
The problem would exist if if what you're saying were true (it's not). The rule before 2017 was to capitalize "Straße" as "STRASSE", which obviously lowercases to "strasse". Now both "STRASSE" and "STRAẞE" are considered correct. Only in official documents did they mix capitals with the lowercase ß to avoid ambiguity where names like STRASSER and STRAßER exist in both spellings.
(Yes, in recent years ß has been almost completely replaces by ss,
No.
Or Danish "aa" that is an alternative spelling of å and uppercases to Aa, not AA.
Forget uppercase.
OK.
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from the svelte Zune 4 to the chunky Zune HD
The Zune HD is tiny
No no no, that's the Microsoft marketing name: Chunky
Zune
HD
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@topspin Unfortunately,
zune hd soupdid not return any relevant image results.
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Trying to install VMware Horizon client on Windows 10
Well, thanks for so much details, this way I can search for a solution
FileUnder: Windows is so much easier than Linux
Edit: and no, it's not blocked by the anti-virus (what anti-virus?)
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WTF of my day: What does "minimal" mean? For me, it means: Install the absolute minimum needed for running the system and getting software and then bugger off.
For Ubuntu this seems to mean: Plonk the absolutely unwanted Apache2 in there and make it use port 443 as well as 80.
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@Rhywden It's because they stopped creating a separate "Ubuntu Server" distribution. "Minimal" was co-opted for that, and if you're installing a server, of course you want it to be able to serve web pages out of the box!
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Ubuntu
Found the problem.
Please use a Real™ Server OS, like Debian, where you can actually choose the components you want to install.
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@TimeBandit said in WTF Bites:
Ubuntu
Found the problem.
Please use a Real™ Server OS, like
DebianOpenBSD.
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@topspin At least it's not Windows
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Status: I was laughing at the trouble with renaming Documents.
Motherfucker!
Edit: And in the normal properties page, Windows claims they're all the same:
But the Security tab knows the truth!
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@TwelveBaud said in WTF Bites:
@Rhywden It's because they stopped creating a separate "Ubuntu Server" distribution. "Minimal" was co-opted for that, and if you're installing a server, of course you want it to be able to serve web pages out of the box!
But not with that hopelessly outdated web server. They have four or five web servers to chose from and Apache2 is the hopelessly obsolete and most bloated one of them. Nobody sensible uses it any more.
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@TwelveBaud said in WTF Bites:
@Rhywden It's because they stopped creating a separate "Ubuntu Server" distribution. "Minimal" was co-opted for that, and if you're installing a server, of course you want it to be able to serve web pages out of the box!
Also, this is the day of single-purpose servers. So while you probably want a server to serve something over the http(s) protocols, it's most likely going to be an application built on something like jetty, asp.net, express, waitress, net/http, actix-web etc. that's going to want to bind to ports 80 and 443 itself.
Generic web server won't be involved except as a reverse proxy running on some other machine—and it will be either nginx, varnish or haproxy, because those are the ones that make sense in that role. Unless it will be a proxy-as-a-service from AWS, Azure, GCE or such.
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Pandora is effectively down. From the network panel I'd say it's this:
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@boomzilla said in WTF Bites:
Pandora is effectively down. From the network panel I'd say it's this:
Probably part of this:
Is Verizon Fios down? Internet outage spanning Northeastern US
Verizon Fios customers across the Northeast suffered from slow and spotty internet service during an apparent outage on Tuesday. More than 21,000 users in New York City, Baltimore, Philadelphia and...
It's back up now.
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Email from my kid's school:
There is a technical issue within the course input system at the moment, which is locking students out after they press enter. For this reason, please support your child in avoiding the enter key while selecting classes. We are working closely with the high school staff to develop short term corrections to this issue until it is resolved by the SIS IT system. We anticipate this issue to be corrected system wide by February 1st.
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You know how long it took me too figure out that those green checkmarks are submit buttons (not validator status icons) for sub-forms on this page, and the buttons at the bottom of the dialog are unrelated to the forms?Spoiler
Too longBonus: I couldn't make a smaller screenshot because all that whitespace at the bottom is part of the dialog. You get scrollbars if you try to make it shorter.
Bonus^2: That checkbox under select repository level access control? It's actually a link to a different form.
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@error Similarly I hate it when I'm confused because I think they put the confirm button in a place I don't expect it so I can not find it but really my configuration changes are saved as soon as I've modified the field without requiring a separate confirmation.
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@boomzilla said in WTF Bites:
Email from my kid's school:
There is a technical issue within the course input system at the moment, which is locking students out after they press enter. For this reason, please support your child in avoiding the enter key while selecting classes. We are working closely with the high school staff to develop short term corrections to this issue until it is resolved by the SIS IT system. We anticipate this issue to be corrected system wide by February 1st.
What in the what? How?
....
naw, nevermind, I'm pretty sure I do not want to know.
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@Rhywden "Enter" in a form triggers submit behavior. If Javascript from mousedown handlers hasn't run, or if the submit button the browser thinks is default is unexpected, things might be left in a weird state. They had the same problem when I was a student, and I ended up having to borrow a counselor's SASI session to fix it.
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@TwelveBaud Yes, but not using
evt.preventDefault()is such a beginner's mistake to make!
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@Rhywden It is a beginner's mistake. The site was written by beginners after all. Where would they get anybody else at this time when good developers are in high demand and for the peanuts they are willing to pay?
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You'd be surprised how often even professionals forget about keyboard actions on forms. Binding things to onMouseDown not onSubmit or onClick (which, despite the name, is fired for a keyboard activation of a button too) is not limited to beginners, sadly.
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@bobjanova Even a beginner is already a professional if they are doing it as a job
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I was checking out the release notes of one of Microsoft's products, and these are the full notes for the latest two versions:
5.1.7681.5
• Enhancements –
o Fixed: activity run failed when using Dynamics 365/Dynamics CRM/Dynamics Common connectors with service principal authentication.
CURRENT VERSION (5.2.7681.6)
• Enhancements –
o Fixed: activity run failed when using Dynamics 365/Dynamics CRM/Dynamics Common connectors with service principal authentication.
So much for QA
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@Vault_Dweller Have you never made a series of commits with comments like these?
- Fixed X
- Really fixed X this time
- This time for sure
- Oh B*****m
OTOH, hopefully the first 3 commits never make it to end users (and the release note for the last one is a bit less colorful).
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@boomzilla
Have you tried to long press the space bar to turn the space heater on?
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@boomzilla
Have you tried to long press the space bar to turn the space heater on?
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@HardwareGeek said in WTF Bites:
Have you never made a series of commits with comments like these?
Only when working on the CI pipeline itself, because testing of that before committing is a bit tricky…
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@error
Filter keys broke my workflow ...
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- taking notes in an unsaved buffer in VS Code (things I only need to remember for the next 15 minutes)
- decide to start working
- click open folder in VS Code
- would you like to save this buffer or discard it?
I'd like to keep it where it is. WhyTF do you need to close it because I'm opening a folder?
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@error Open Folder makes a whole new workspace (including throwing out all context from the previous one). Basically, it closes the window and makes a new one from scratch.
Yes, a
but one, from their perspective, that makes more sense.
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@HardwareGeek said in WTF Bites:
Have you never made a series of commits with comments like these?
Only when working on the CI pipeline itself, because testing of that before committing is a bit tricky…
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@Benjamin-Hall said in WTF Bites:
@error Open Folder makes a whole new workspace (including throwing out all context from the previous one). Basically, it closes the window and makes a new one from scratch.
Yes, a
but one, from their perspective, that makes more sense.It makes sense from the developer's perspective is a terrible excuse for poor UX.
A visit from the Zune squad
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