Products for Dumb Suckers
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This is complete bullshit from MS
Yeah, but at the time, I think the context was specifically drivers. And it was probably something like a fee to join the WHQL program. This is 15 years almost ago, so don't try to invent too many objections about things I don't have details for.
Besides, I've already addressed this particular thing when I pointed out that you have to pay to get on an app store. Clearly it's something people are willing to do.
FWIW Modern UI apps, which I know we all hate, do have an auto update feature. I'm not sure how well it works considering how few Modern UI apps I have, and of course it doesn't apply to desktop apps, but it is there.
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I suspect it may be a security issue. If WU was open to anyone it would be a lot easier to sneak malware onto it. Cue /. aneurysms about M$ forcing malware onto innocent users' PCs.
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you have to pay to get on an app store
Getting on an app store is a completely different thing from having a mechanism in place that would allow third party installers to have their third party updates applied without needing to install third party services to do it.
There would continue to be no way to prevent any third party application vendor continuing to install their own update services.
There's actually nothing but idiot politics preventing Windows application vendors getting together to define an agreed registry key somewhere under HKLM\SOFTWARE to hold a list of update MSI URLs, and releasing an open source application update service that knows where that is along with a .cpl to manage it.
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If WU was open to anyone it would be a lot easier to sneak malware onto it
I don't see why. Seems to me that if you're going to sneak malware onto a Windows box in an update, you'd prefer to be doing that with an updater you wrote yourself.
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It's not my theory. I am just saying that if MS announced third-party software could be on WU, someone would scream, and you know it's true.
I don't doubt that someone would scream, but that doesn't mean that anyone with any power to do anything about it would credibly scream.
I suspect it may be a security issue. If WU was open to anyone it would be a lot easier to sneak malware onto it.
Maybe. But that seems way out there. And another example of probably already being on the other side of the hatch.
Getting on an app store is a completely different thing from having a mechanism in place that would allow third party installers to have their third party updates applied without needing to install third party services to do it.
+g
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Oh, and while we're at it: given the existence of the .msi package format, and the fact that when you download and double-click a .msi you get Windows Installer cranking up to install it, why TF is everybody still pushing out .exe installers instead? If you can get a .msi version, it's always tucked away under "options for site administrators" or some bullshit.
The only way this makes any sense to me is if I believe that .msi is just a stupidly hard format to get right.
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Can people stop leaving Blakey's cage unlocked?
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Can people stop leaving Blakey's cage unlocked?
wait, we have a cage for blakey?
hmm.... it's actually probably best i didn't know that before now. ;-)
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I blame you, you know.
It's simple karma.
When you have a person as awesome as @accalia on the forums, there must be a cosmic balance.
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But it's fluffy and filled with baby foxes.
http://what.thedailywtf.com/t/tdwtf-resize-fail-on-firefox/6892/11?u=xaade
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But it's fluffy and filled with baby foxes.
still a cage!
MUY MALO! DO NOT WANT!
this fox wants to be free!
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Whereas a botched Adobe update only makes Adobe look bad
Not if it's delivered via Windows update delivery channel, which I guess is the biggest reason. One botched third party update and you get thousands of people not only pissed of at MS (since they're easy to blame), but also turning off WU.
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Getting on an app store is a completely different thing from having a mechanism in place that would allow third party installers to have their third party updates applied without needing to install third party services to do it.
What, you mean like the way Android and Apple handle that?
You're nitpicking. While what you say is true, getting in an app store is a proven way to get updates without having to write your own updater.
Sure, you can argue that you shouldn't have to, but originally you said there should be a first-party one. Well, there is, although it doesn't yet do everything you would want.
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For instance, here's the short-list of who either sued or threatened to sue Microsoft over what when they added it.
- RealNetworks, Inc sued Microsoft over Windows Media Player 7+. Despite Media Player having been part of Windows since Windows 3.0 with Multimedia Extensions.
- Both Europe and the United States sued Microsoft for shipping Internet Explorer with Windows 95 SR2 and later... the lawsuits weren't resolved until after shipping a web browser with the OS became the standard.
- Adobe threatened to sue Microsoft over including PDF support in Office 2007. Despite PDF being a published standard.
- Symantec sued Microsoft over including the filesystem volume manager in Windows. In 2006, something like 6 years after it was added.
- McAfee, AVG, Sophos, and Trend Micro threatened to sue Microsoft if they ever shipped Microsoft Security Essentials with Windows.
So, who could sue Microsoft over adding an update system? Well, lets line up the candidates:
- Radiology. Why: Presumed current owner of Nullsoft Software Installation System (NSIS).
- Flexera Software. Why: Creator of InstallShield.
- Secure by Design, Inc. Why: Creator of Ninite
- The FSF. Why: Because there are a bunch of open source package managers for Windows.
Now... having said all this, I'd like to remind everyone that Microsoft has included the OneGet package manager in the Windows 10 Technical Preview. However, its not clear whether there will be a GUI for this or if it will remain PowerShell only.
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>A fox uterus?
..... ewww.
want that even less than a cage!
That is standard equipment for girl foxes.
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I'd like to remind everyone that Microsoft has included the OneGet package manager in the Windows 10 Technical Preview. However, its not clear whether there will be a GUI for this or if it will remain PowerShell only.
I've heard--but I can't remember the context--people griping about this, because (IIRC) it's basically a front-end to nuget, and for some reason not necessarily suited to being a general-purpose update channel.
I don't know enough to have understood why it wouldn't be, though.
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That is standard equipment for girl foxes.
true, but that doesn't mean that i should have any desire to be in one!
ick! ick! ick!
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Why is this shit in my thread. Get out of here.
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Why is this shit in my thread. Get out of here.
Are you agreeing with @codinghorror that topic drift is a bad thing?
He asked, innocently.
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I'm saying I don't want to be notified of fox vagina discussions. I don't give a shit if you talk about that fuckwittery in some thread I'm not subscribed to, but get the fuck out of this one.
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I'm saying I don't want to be notified of fox vagina discussions.
Isn't it a good thing for you we were talking about fox uteri, then? </pedant>
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Huh, I wonder what this is.
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I don't want to be notified of fox vagina discussions.
Then change your notification settings and stop winning.
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Picture won't load.
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Huh, I wonder what this is.
"Current post selector." It's for keyboard navigation. You probably hit J or K.
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"Current post selector." It's for keyboard navigation. You probably hit J or K.
Ah, I see.
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No repro.
Here's the picture for anyone else having the same problem.
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don't blame me! blame @xaade. he started it!
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The culture is toxic...
toxic I say!!!
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What's the LD50?
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I'm sure I have a post around here that's = LD100
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Oh, and while we're at it: given the existence of the .msi package format, and the fact that when you download and double-click a .msi you get Windows Installer cranking up to install it, why TF is <b>everybody</b> still pushing out .exe installers instead? If you <em>can</em> get a .msi version, it's always tucked away under "options for site administrators" or some bullshit.
The only way this makes any sense to me is if I believe that .msi is just a stupidly hard format to get right.
As far as I can tell, MSI is just a stupidly hard hard format to use at all, let alone get right.
On both Google and Bing the top results are either wrong, massively out of date, unusable or gone.If you start on Visual Studio Express or use some other IDE/toolset, you'll probably use NSIS 'cos it's free and just works - including for silent installs as long as you don't do crazy shit like message boxes.
Some of the older installer creation tools (eg InstallShield) do have options to create an MSI version, but simply belgium it up royally if you try.
You already know your older tool (and have existing software that the installers must upgrade to the new hotness), so it's just not worth the hassle of migrating.At work there's an ongoing InstallShield v NSIS debate, and I expect we'll continue to use both for the foreseeable future
Nobody at all flies the flag for MSI.
[size=8](I prefer NSIS for reasons of source control branch & merge, but migrating existing projects is just Not Worth It.)[/size]PS: Discourse quotes turn formatting into entities now? Is that new?
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I think it's a given that any PC gamer who sees any appeal in a product like this is stupid. Probably an asshole, too.
While you'd have to be stupid to buy DIMMDrive, RAM disks are the cheapest way to record uncompressed video without fucking your framerate.
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Bullshit. FRAPS does that just fine on a 7200 RPM HD. I have like 200 videos on YouTube demonstrating it.
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RAM disks are the cheapest way to record uncompressed video without fucking your framerate.
depending on your setup. if you're already getting more than 60-70FPS (depending on monitor refresh rate) then you'll literally cannot notice any drop in framerate until your framerate goes below your monitor refresh rate.
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You can use Microsoft's WIX toolset to create MSI files. You can even use Votive to do it directly from Visual Studio.
Edit: Apparently Microsoft transferred it to an organization named OuterCurve in 2012, so it technically isn't Microsoft's WIX any more.
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Oh, and while we're at it: given the existence of the .msi package format, and the fact that when you download and double-click a .msi you get Windows Installer cranking up to install it, why TF is everybody still pushing out .exe installers instead?
Bootstrappers that make sure that e.g. .net 4.0 is installed, and download and install it if it is not.@powerlord said:Now... having said all this, I'd like to remind everyone that Microsoft has included the OneGet package manager in the Windows 10 Technical Preview.
Similar to Chocolatey.
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Bootstrappers that make sure that e.g. .net 4.0 is installed, and download and install it if it is not.
Gee, I wonder if we'll ever get to the point where some kind of program that manages packages can automatically install dependencies.
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That's crazytalk! That'd be
easy to useanti-competitive!
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Chocolatey.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that Chocolatey's greatest impediment to success is its abjectly stupid and horrendous name.
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I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that Chocolatey's greatest impediment to success is its abjectly stupid and horrendous name.
Meh, explain Twitter, Spotify, Hulu, and others then. We are in an era of shitty product names.
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Meh, explain Twitter, Spotify, Hulu, and others then. We are in an era of shitty product names.
Part of it is that a lot of companies want a cheap .com domain name (all the "normal" names have been taken), and they want a name that has as little competition for keyword searches as possible. I think I remember reading that SyFy changed its spelling for this reason.
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For sure, the competition is pretty strong, but at least none of those have an adjective for a name... :<blank>/
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Part of it is that a lot of companies want a cheap .com domain name (all the "normal" names have been taken), and they want a name that has as little competition for keyword searches as possible.
I get why they do it. Their names are still stupid. If you have a good reason to pick a stupid name, the name is still stupid.