Discourse is slow on Android. Why?
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I was going to give him a discount and give him a quote of $75/hour for this testing.
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see, now you are derailing this topic with the topic about civilized discussion, too.
Thats just how it works. As long as you know that you can usually rerail a topic by saying "back to topic", it works.
reading the chrome-dev doesn't really tell me if they have a definite plan on fixing this. Or a plan at all... or the estimate of a plan.
Will Discourse try to lessen the burden on Android-phones now that you guys know it is a weak point?Filed Under: Fight derailing by rerailing!
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I was going to jack up the rate to cover the "Pain in the ass tax" and charge him $500/hour for testing. Everyone here is nicer than I am...
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Yeah, all you have to do is go back to topic...without being a cock, and everyone here usually complies. Until they derail again.
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It is part of your toxic culture here, yes. But it should change.
I think it's safe to say the only one here who actually likes you is Alex. And he, unfortunately, happens to have the keys to the server. ("Here" being mostly theoretical, since Alex never posts here anyway.)
Believe me, if ANY of us had a choice, we wouldn't be using your shitty forum software. I don't want your fucking sports car, remember? I definitely don't want your idea of civilized discourse. I want my pickup truck back.
HEY LOOKIE: here's a numbered list starting from five:
- Coding
- Horror
- Sucks
HEY LOOK, REGRESSIONS! For another fun demo of how crappy this forum software is, try hitting "Dismiss Posts" on the "New" tab, that's been broken for fucking months now.
Not that you even know what the word "regression" means. (Or "testing", for that matter.)
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I like your shitty attitude a lot better when it is directed at someone we both dislike.
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Back on topic, since zero meaningful moderation occurs on this site:
topic drift happens, even on the best forums. but since you mention it...
That's from a Google Chrome team member. So definitely bugs in Chrome/Android. I'm just frustrated it took them a year to do jack-all about it.
so, if it's been a year without meaningful changes on that front then what is your plan for mitigating these issues for mobile users that use the mobile OS with the biggest global market share? Android isn't going away and unless you happen to be lucky and run AOSP then you're never getting Lollipop. that's a huge segment of the market that we'd be ignoring because of a but that upstream apparently won't be fixing, so we need to mitigate it.
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being inclusive often gets better results than being exclusive.
we also like the word we. so we use it a lot because we can.
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So far I learn't that Jeff can't peek into an open source project and see where they might be quick wins in optimizing the performance.
The JS performance is almost secondary to the whole argument anyway. Discourse performs badly on any phone when you don't have ideal network conditions due to how it loads new posts and it is constantly trying to repaint while this happens. This is compounded when you have a smaller the phone screen, so it loads less posts at once causing more network traffic and more repaints. The two combined kill the perceived performance.
This should have been sorted ages ago and blaming JS performance is lazy when you are loading up new data in a retarded manner.
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That's from a Google Chrome team member. So definitely bugs in Chrome/Android. I'm just frustrated it took them a year to do jack-all about it.
Hey, all you have to do is to make a pull request...
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Some updated results from the Complex List test at http://samsaffron.github.io/ember-performance/?ember=1.8.0
iPad Air 2 -- 224 ms
iPhone 6+ -- 252 ms
iPhone 5s -- 300 ms
iPhone 5 -- 600 ms
iPhone 4 -- 2031 ms
Galaxy S5 -- 1297 ms
Nexus 5 -- 1426 ms
Nexus 7 -- 1930 msSurface Pro 3 Core i5
IE 11 (x64, touch) -- 613 ms
Firefox latest -- 312 ms
Chrome latest -- 260 msDesktop Core i7-4470k
IE 11 x32 -- 390 ms
Firefox -- 245 ms
Chrome -- 181 msIntel Bay Trail Atom Asus T100 1.33 Ghz Z3740
IE 11 (x64, touch) -- 2.2 sec
Firefox latest -- 1.6 sec
Chrome latest -- 1.2 secto get free data from us and then you complain about our culture and toxicity
Yep, this is the GamerGate reply. Believe it or not, it is possible to enjoy something, but still criticize aspects of that thing it in hopes that it might one day improve. Shocking, I know.that's a huge segment of the market that we'd be ignoring because of a but that upstream apparently won't be fixing, so we need to mitigate it.
Did you read the Google team member post in the bug report I quoted above? We publicized this so that it can be fixed for everyone with a new release of Chrome/Android. The whole OS doesn't need to change.Discourse performs badly on any phone when you don't have ideal network conditions due to how it loads new posts and it is constantly trying to repaint while this happens
Actually, Discourse will radically outperform traditional HTML pages in bad network conditions -- the JS engine is just pulling down the minimal JSON data necessary to paint the screen, not all HTML / CSS assets on every page load.Looking forward to more Android devices outperforming Ye Olde 2010 iPhone 4 at ~2 seconds. ;)
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Hm... I got two complaints with your post, I think.
1.) I thought it loaded posts in batches (of 20 standard and 50 here because we are crazy like that). I dunno how EmberJS handles stuff and I guess polling for updates also doesn't help but the new posts don't seem like the main culprit. Especially since you can still get the "Loading" when you scroll too fast.
This should have been sorted ages ago and blaming JS performance is lazy when you are loading up new data in a retarded manner.
While I agree that JS is not the only problem Discourse has, having a Loadtime that is 5 times as big is pretty devastating. The question now is how do they handle this situation.
But we complained about Mobile performance (well... and usability but thats another matter) and the DiscourseDevs actually dove into the matter and tried to figure out why things were slow on a (albeit big) part of their market. Then @codinghorror came here and informed us of that. I don't see a problem with how this was handled so far.Filed Under: Let's wait and see
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You came here because you wanted to get free data from us and then you complain about our culture and toxicity - which you already knew about for quite a while - in the same thread?I'm not sure how exactly I should feel about that. Probably appalled.
Don't worry about what he's saying here where he has no power, worry about what he's suggesting to alex the tdwtf owner.
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all HTML / CSS assets on every page load.
Have you heard of that nifty new thing called "cache"?
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Actually, Discourse will radically outperform traditional HTML pages in bad network conditions -- the JS engine is just pulling down the minimal JSON data necessary to paint the screen, not all HTML / CSS assets on every page load.
thisiswhatjeffatwoodactuallybelieves.jpg
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Bandwidth isn't the problem it is the latency of each request and the number of requests that are happening when scrolling through a topic. On my S3 I can only see maybe two maybe 3 posts maximum, so when I scroll down further it has to make a new set of requests, each request has a latency associated with it.
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Well, you guys have the info, the bug, and common benchmarks so I will be giving myself this advice now
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Yep, this is the GamerGate reply.
Wow, label much?
Hey, look, everyone, @codinghorror can be a dick too! One of us, one of us!
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You're aware that many companies in the financial sector are still running on unix mainframes, right?
Most of the machines in my company are citrix machines running win server 2k3 and IE8 is the newest thing they have.
And it's a fortune 100 company.
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Most of the machines in my company are citrix machines running win server 2k3 and IE8 is the newest thing they have.
Beat you with Windows 2000. Yep, they're not migrating anytime soon.
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You're aware that many companies in the financial sector are still running on unix mainframes, right?
Most of the machines in my company are citrix machines running win server 2k3 and IE8 is the newest thing they have.
And it's a fortune 100 company.
Still doesn't beat the nearly century-old mechanical interlocker that you might have seen at work taking the Metra out of the Ogilvie...
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I will be giving myself this advice now
Gee whiz, Mr. Wizard, I bet you wish your shitty forum software had an "ignore" feature about now, huh?
Hey, look, everyone, @codinghorror can be a dick too! One of us, one of us!
He's always been a dick.
The problem is he's the wrong type of dick. For one thing, he's a raging egomaniac, like, to the point of shaming the raging egomaniac I pretend to be.
For another, he always comes here pretending he has some kind of moral high ground (based on... some... thing?) when he has not. I mean, scroll up and read that crack about us having a "toxic culture". Really, dude? And you're the reincarnation of Mother Theresa I suppose?
For a third, he's a dick by being a dick in actions in addition to just words (fucking around with moderation, going way out-of-bounds by changing a site he doesn't own's header images, etc). Remember "sticks and stones", kiddies.
He's the exact wrong type of dick for this site.
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He's always been a dick.
Yes, but now he's stooping[1] to the level of base insults.
Not to mention using "GamerGate" as an insult, thus showing he doesn't care about the actual complexity of that issue, and the fact that, trolls/MRAs/etc aside, the GG people actually have a pretty good point. So we also know, as if we didn't already, he's also a smug, elitist bastard.
He's the exact wrong type of dick for this site.
I was just pointing out with my "one of us" crack that we broke him, and for one shining moment he was the RIGHT type of dick for this site!
[1] I had started to type "stupid" for some unknown reason
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I don't know what metra or ogilvie are, so... ... maybe?
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I knew what a "mechanical interlocking" is, but I didn't recognize Metra or Oglivie, either. LMGTFY: http://metrarail.com/metra/en/home/maps_schedules/downtown_chicagostations/ogilvie_transportation_center.html
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metra
The Chicago commuter trains.
ogilvie
Although, I was referring to what sits at the station throat...
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I haven't bothered profiling it on my mobile phone, but it is definitely a problem to do with loading new posts while scrolling. I have sometimes get 3G but of the time the phone seems to be getting High Speed while on the train. It can be quite frustrating.
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Yeah it was a bit harsh, so sorry @codinghorror.
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Why not get an Etherkiller in a plausibly deniable fashion? That's fundamentally what our wireless installers do every time they decide they want latest & greatest (read: hear that we got new spare computers in). "Oh man, I'm having a horrible week, and now my laptop just jumped straight off a 60 foot TV tower and I have no idea how it happened"
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It is part of your toxic culture here, yes. But it should change.
If you want a different culture, don't come here.
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@Intercourse said:
I was going to jack up the rate to cover the "Pain in the ass tax" and charge him $500/hour for testing. Everyone here is nicer than I am...
No, I think that you're on the right track.
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we'd be ignoring
we need to mitigate it.
Uh-oh, @accalia is exhibiting signs of one of the Discourse diseases. Anyone know a specialist they could recommend?
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@CodingHorrorBot has some words for @accalia
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@accalia Is Doing It Wrongâ„¢
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It is part of your toxic culture here, yes. But it should change.
Alright there Hitler.
There, I invoked Godwin's law.
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It is part of your toxic culture here, yes. But it should change.
toxic culture? really?
you went there?
-sigh-
and i was trying so hard to be nice....
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toxic culture? really?
It's a Jefché.
http://what.thedailywtf.com/t/discopaedia/3866/225?u=boomzilla
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To the Discopedia thread!
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Done and done.
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So running the benchmark on Firefox for Android is actually even worse than Chrome. Deeper issue in Android?
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I agree, but those aren't plausible, unfortunately. I am currently considering "aged TIM on the CPU."
Still using an IDE/PATA harddrive I assume?
Take the drive out and give it some "maintenance" with a rubber mallet (the sort tilers use, nice big surface on the heads).
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Uh-oh, @accalia is exhibiting signs of one of the Discourse diseases. Anyone know a specialist they could recommend?
Ask @FrostCat for the rubber mallet when he's finished maintenance on the harddrives.
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"Toxic Culture" is the sociologist's way of saying "You're Doing It WrongTM"
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More like Citizen Kane, imo
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I would have thought that the Discourse API Reference was the whitepage that we get every now and then.
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Just a moment ago they ran
s/category/c
over all the endpoints, so http://what.thedailywtf.com/category/coding-help.json, for example, which returned valid json two weeks ago, now redirects to html.
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http://what.thedailywtf.com/c/side-bar-wtf/l/latest.json
You tell me about this... Have you figured out how to get username by user ID? Or what the fuck are numerical user IDs used for?
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Well, I don't know about admin stuff, but there's definitely no user-accessible endpoints that use the userid.
Sometimes I feel a little bit frustrated about decisions made by the Discourse team, but on the whole I think they do a pretty good job, given their constraints.