Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow
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"How should the customer get going if they accepted an order to develop an IntelliSense feature?"
Okay, wait, let me see if I understand this.
Your customer signed a contract promising to deliver an IntelliSense feature, but they don't have any idea where to start, and they're asking Microsoft to help them either by providing an API, or helping them find somebody who has a ready-made solution.
Apparently, this is what happens when people who grew up with StackOverflow get a job.
The customer needs to grab a blank piece of paper and start designing some software.
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Someone get Mason Wheeler a ...
Mason Wheeler comment
StackOverflow was created in 2008. Kids who grew up on it aren’t old enough to have jobs yet…
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Too bad this site isn't Slashdot or I'd vote for +1 on Clickbait.
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I used to work for an agency where the main sales guy would promise the client anything to close a sale. Before consulting with developers to find out if what he was promising was feasible or even possible, let alone to get an estimate.
He was also one of the three partners who owned the company, so he was completely immune to being sacked. Also, this behavior was incentivized, because his commission came off the top of sales, regardless of net profit (which was often negative).
So it was that I spent many nights and weekends finishing projects that were grossly underbid, only to be harped on for being so far over-hours. It's not my fault you sold the thing for 20% of the hours it actually took, maybe if you'd asked me for an estimate first...!
No regrets about leaving that gorram sweatshop.
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@izzion said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
Someone get Mason Wheeler a ...
Mason Wheeler comment
StackOverflow was created in 2008. Kids who grew up on it aren’t old enough to have jobs yet…It's true. I first started programming at 8 years old. If I'd been 8 when SO launched, having "grown up on" it for all the time I've been coding, I'd be 16 today...
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@masonwheeler If you started coding when you were sixteen in 2008 by hacking together a PHP website based on stuff on StackOverflow, you'd be 24 now and could have a programming-related job, right?
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@masonwheeler On the flip side, people who were oh, say, sophomores in high school when SO came out would be about 1 year removed from their CS degree and just getting their feet wet in the Real World Of Coding these days. Which fits nicely with the point Chen was making...
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@izzion did you mean @Mason_Wheeler ?
OT:
are we sure they were talking about intellisense and not just about a typeahead?
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@Jarry said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
@izzion did you mean @Mason_Wheeler ?
Yeah, that's me. Apparently something went wrong when we switched over from and now my old account isn't connected to the new one.
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@JBert said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
Too bad this site isn't Slashdot or I'd vote for +1 on Clickbait.
I offer a clickbait voting option. Send me a check for $500 and once it clears I will add your +1 clickbait vote to the OP.
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@izzion said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
Which fits nicely with the point Chen was making...
The point he was making is that people used to actually get out a piece of paper and design shit instead of just glomming-together 57 pre-made buggy libraries. You know, people used to develop software. Back in the day.
StackOverflow is kind of secondary to that point.
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@blakeyrat
and people still develops software,
i think the only difference is that the people who do these kind of things don't die in a fire because they can use SO to build shitty software
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@Jarry said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
and people still develops software,
I don't see much evidence of that. Look at Discourse or NodeBB for counter-examples.
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@blakeyrat More bad software doesn't negate the existence of good software. It just makes it statistically less likely.
Filed under: I'm still searching for one good program. Just one.,
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There's got to be some intellisense libraries laying around. For example, I know the frontend part can be easily added (eg. the part that detect keyboard commands and displays the list).
For the word list, I'm sure he can dig something out of one of the many OSS editor projects laying around. Eg. Visual Studio Code?
So, don't give up, customer! You can yet slap together some pile of modules and rake that contract money!
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@error said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
I used to work for an agency where the main sales guy would promise the client anything to close a sale. Before consulting with developers to find out if what he was promising was feasible or even possible, let alone to get an estimate.
We had a salesman like that in a previous life. It was amazing how much long-term damage and technical debt he caused with that strategy, even before he jumped ship to a competitor while bringing his leads.
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@blakeyrat Sure, but I'm going to send a check for $2k, could you Western Union that to my Grandma in Egypt so she can buy souvenirs for me?
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@blakeyrat said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
Send me a check for $500
What about cash? Do you take cash?
Does the $500 have to be in USD or will you take other kinds of currency?
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My customer is developing an IDE and they want to implement the IntelliSense feature. We have been unable to find any documents explaining how to do this. Is there an API for this?
As a great computer scientist once said: "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question".
@Jarry said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
are we sure they were talking about intellisense and not just about a typeahead?
That would make more sense... still, if you're that bad at wording your questions, maybe you don't deserve an answer.
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@FrostCat 500 Zimbabwe Dollars
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@error Isn't that the subject of many a story on this site?
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@theBread It probably is a story on this site. I'm sure I've bitched about it before.
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@theBread said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
@error Isn't that the subject of many a story on this site?
There is a site?
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I think Resharper does its own Intellisense, though I'm not sure they're extending the built-in one. It may be a full-on replacement.
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@JazzyJosh said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
@FrostCat 500 Zimbabwe Dollars
I actually thought it would be worse than this.
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@error said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
I think Resharper does its own Intellisense, though I'm not sure they're extending the built-in one. It may be a full-on replacement.
The Visual Studio framework does have APIs for intellisense. The guy in the blog post was asking about Windows specifically, not Visual Studio.
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@blakeyrat said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
The Visual Studio framework does have APIs for intellisense. The guy in the blog post was asking about Windows specifically, not Visual Studio.
Oh, I guess I missed that.
Hai guise, pls sends me teh codes so I can develop the competing product. kthxbye
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@Polygeekery said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
I actually thought it would be worse than this
Keep in mind they've probably chopped like 30 or 40 zeros from the currency already.
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@Polygeekery said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
I actually thought it would be worse than this.
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@blakeyrat said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
@izzion said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
Which fits nicely with the point Chen was making...
The point he was making is that people used to actually get out a piece of paper and design shit instead of just glomming-together 57 pre-made buggy libraries. You know, people used to develop software. Back in the day.
StackOverflow is kind of secondary to that point.
But that[E_APOSTRPHE_MODULE_NOT_FOUND]s the way software gets made these days.
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@Polygeekery said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
@JazzyJosh said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
@FrostCat 500 Zimbabwe Dollars
I actually thought it would be worse than this.
Clearly, your pessimism was inflated.
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@Polygeekery said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
I actually thought it would be worse than this.
That's not your father's ZWD. It went away for a while and they're in the process of reintroducing it.
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@boomzilla said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
@Polygeekery said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
I actually thought it would be worse than this.
That's not your father's ZWD. It went away for a while and they're in the process of reintroducing it.
Reminds me of the Falconist party platform when it suggested replacing the USD with the New Dollar at an exchange rate of 100 USD = 1 ND.
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@Groaner Anyone who appends the word "new" to something that is meant to stay around forever and not replace the old thing immediately should be hung.
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@Polygeekery said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
I actually thought it would be worse than this.
They demonetized the Zimbabwean Dollar last year. That's probably why.
Also, ZWD is out of date->it was redenominated like 3 more times before it was demonetized.
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@Gurth Now do ZWN, ZWR and ZWL.
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@FrostCat said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
@Gurth Now do ZWN, ZWR and ZWL.
I am really not that interested in it. They are fucked. 'Nuf said.
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@Magus said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
@Groaner Anyone who appends the word "new" to something that is meant to stay around forever and not replace the old thing immediately should be hung.
If you think that's bad, you should read the rest of their platform.
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@Magus It's like the computer standards with words like "fast" in the name.
Like USB Full Speed, High Speed and SuperSpeed.
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@Groaner said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
If you think that's bad, you should read the rest of their platform.
http://www.falconistparty.us/platform.html
They seem to jump from "I guess that makes sense" to "oh god please no" and "what?" pretty randomly.
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@anonymous234 said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
@Groaner said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
If you think that's bad, you should read the rest of their platform.
http://www.falconistparty.us/platform.html
They seem to jump from "I guess that makes sense" to "oh god please no" and "what?" pretty randomly.
One guy on a website a decade ago once described it as "the love child of Lyndon LaRouche, Jerry Falwell and Robert Heinlein."
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@anonymous234 SanDisk Super Mega Ultra Extreme Alpha Wolf Squadron SD cards
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@Magus cc @Raymond_Chen oldnewthing?
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@blakeyrat said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
"How should the customer get going if they accepted an order to develop an IntelliSense feature?"
Okay, wait, let me see if I understand this.
Your customer signed a contract promising to deliver an IntelliSense feature, but they don't have any idea where to start, and they're asking Microsoft to help them either by providing an API, or helping them find somebody who has a ready-made solution.
Apparently, this is what happens when people who grew up with StackOverflow get a job.
The customer needs to grab a blank piece of paper and start designing some software.
This kinds of sounds like my previous workplace in my home country.
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@lolwhat Two down votes?
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@error said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
I used to work for an agency where the main sales guy would promise the client anything to close a sale. Before consulting with developers to find out if what he was promising was feasible or even possible, let alone to get an estimate. ...
At one of the places I worked once upon a time our project head insisted on sending one of us to industry shows (often our testing lead) along with the sales folks to rein them in from promising the moon to all and sundry. You can't stop everything, but every bit helps.
This was one of the reasons why it was the best place I ever worked, which is (of course) why they decided to close our office, lay everyone off, and shut down development.
Good times.
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@Polygeekery said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
@JazzyJosh said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
@FrostCat 500 Zimbabwe Dollars
I actually thought it would be worse than this.
US $6 -> RS 11600000g
US $20 -> WoW 30000g
US $10 -> GW2 146gNice inflation, guys.
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@lolwhat said in Raymond Chen disses StackOverflow:
@lolwhat Two down votes?
Poor application of - the quoted phrase is
- Only one word long
- Not even vaguely applicable (in its form) in the original sentence
1/5
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@bb36e There are rules now? Sheeeeeit.