Why is polygamy illegal?
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@Jaloopa said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
@error said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
OK, so things are not the things they're composed of. What are they? Patterns. What kind of patterns compose a thing? When does a thing stop being a thing? Is or is not a thing part of another thing?
This touches on the heap problem too. One of something isn't a heap, a few hundred is. Where's the dividing line?
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@Jaloopa said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
@error said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
OK, so things are not the things they're composed of. What are they? Patterns. What kind of patterns compose a thing? When does a thing stop being a thing? Is or is not a thing part of another thing?
This touches on the heap problem too. One of something isn't a heap, a few hundred is. Where's the dividing line?
Easy. Does it fit into stack space, or not?
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@error said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
Metaphysics is hard, let's go shopping.
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/ee5b17de-9dfc-4c09-9ff1-75a43bf4ae41
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@djls45 said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
@Jaloopa said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
@djls45 said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
Or more succinctly, I think, therefore I am
that's what you think
Unless logic is broken.
So the ultimate, basic, foundational assumption must be 'Logic works'.
The quest for an ultimate, basic, foundational assumption is broken by design. By the time a mind is configured in a way that leads it to embark upon such a quest, it's already been exposed to years and years and years of cultural conditioning. There is simply no justification for putting a mental finger on any particular aspect of experience and deciding that this is the foundation upon which all else must rest.
The foundations of logic are more akin to tree roots reaching deep into a swamp than anything built deliberately by human beings.
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@dcon said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
@flabdablet said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
finding matching socks in the wash basket
I solved that problem. They're all the same.
The effort required by this solution is not minimized, as it involves either (a) buying more socks than you need, in order to replace all of them when some become no longer fit for purpose or (b) limiting sources of replacement socks to those offering socks identical with those already in use.
I use and recommend transcendental matching: deem all socks that fit comfortably to be the same. Other attributes such as color and pattern are simply not relevant.
Apparently unlike Richard Dawkins, I do not seek to flaunt my mismatched socks for political points. I simply take a different position from most observers on whether any given pair is mismatched.
: You are wearing odd socks!
: Ommmm.
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@flabdablet said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
There is simply no justification for putting a mental finger on any particular aspect of experience and deciding that this is the foundation upon which all else must rest.
That said, it seems likely to me that the first distinction many of us would make happens when we're tiny infants, and is between self and environment: this moves about in a somewhat controllable way, but that generally stays much the same.
I'm fairly convinced at this point that generalizing that particular act of distinction-making is probably foundational to logic for most of us.
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@Jaloopa said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
@error said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
OK, so things are not the things they're composed of. What are they? Patterns. What kind of patterns compose a thing? When does a thing stop being a thing? Is or is not a thing part of another thing?
This touches on the heap problem too. One of something isn't a heap, a few hundred is. Where's the dividing line?
One of something is a heap. Any more than one and you have to do some comparisons.
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@flabdablet said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
The effort required by this solution is not minimized, as it involves either (a) buying more socks than you need, in order to replace all of them when some become no longer fit for purpose or (b) limiting sources of replacement socks to those offering socks identical with those already in use.
That's not that hard. The socks need to be black because otherwise they get mixed up with those of other family members, and the socks need to not get incredibly uncomfortable after half a day. The combination narrows down the valid solutions pretty strongly already.
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@flabdablet said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
The foundations of logic are more akin to tree roots reaching deep into a swamp than anything built deliberately by human beings.
There's been a lot of progress in formal logic over the past 200 years or so, as we've moved from using syllogisms (some of which turned out to be rather flawed) to the current symbolic/algebraic approach. We know pretty precisely what our assumptions are in this area, and are unlikely to get blind-sided there. Yes, you most certainly can dispute which axioms of logic are allowed; there's been quite a bit of work in this area:
It turns out that that one is really useful when working with computation. It doesn't say nearly as much about things as classical logic, but what it says is sound if the input facts and statements are consistent. Classical logic can make bigger leaps and that can make life difficult…
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I am sure there was a penn and teller bullshit episode about this.
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@another_sam said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
However I would like to try to draw your attention to the invisible pink flying unicorn in the room.
FTFY
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@flabdablet said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
Therefore, atheism is a religion.
There are certainly some atheists--anti-theists would probably be a preferable term--who treat, assuredly subconsciously, their worldview similar to the way a religious person does.
For example, doing around telling religious people they're stupid for having an imaginary friend.
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@dkf said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
That's not that hard. The socks need to be black because otherwise they get mixed up with those of other family members, and the socks need to not get incredibly uncomfortable after half a day. The combination narrows down the valid solutions pretty strongly already.
Are you sure you're not me? Have we ever been seen together?
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@FrostCat said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
having an imaginary friend.
I find almost all of my friends can technically be classified as imaginary...
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@Tsaukpaetra Yes, but probably not in the same way I was using the word (that is, derogatorily, because nothing says "I want to have a rational conversation" like insulting your counterpart's basic premises).
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@lucas1 said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
I am sure there was a penn and teller bullshit episode about this.
Penn & Teller Bible Bullshit – 01:08
— killbot350
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@FrostCat said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
@Tsaukpaetra Yes, but probably not in the same way I was using the word (that is, derogatorily, because nothing says "I want to have a rational conversation" like insulting your counterpart's basic premises).
I'm facing the 's dilemma here. I want to discuss these things civilly, but I also want to sling and into the conversation because that amuses me.
I try to limit individual posts to either complete rationality or complete though.
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@error said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
I try to limit individual posts to either complete rationality or complete though.
Maybe we should split the rationality and into different threads?
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@antiquarian said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
@error said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
I try to limit individual posts to either complete rationality or complete though.
Maybe we should split the rationality and into different threads?
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@antiquarian said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
@error said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
I try to limit individual posts to either complete rationality or complete though.
Maybe we should split the rationality and into different threads?
Don't forget we need one specifically for
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@Tsaukpaetra The guacamole thread is
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@pydsigner said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
@Tsaukpaetra The guacamole thread is
Wow, you spent quite some time to type out some ...
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@Tsaukpaetra Aw crap. I honestly didn't realize that was a specific emote.... and I'm pretty sure I quoted someone's post at one point to check if it was, and it wasn't....
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@pydsigner said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
a specific emote
Yep, it was created a while back, I guess because people got lazy to do it all by hand.
I mean,  just doesn't look the same anymore...
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@error said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
but I also want to sling and into the conversation because that amuses me.
[Ugh. @julianlam, @ben_lubar, selecting text and hitting Quote does weird things. It should probably ignore the selection and quote the entire post.]
Sure, but keep that to a topic with in the title?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
Wow, you spent quite some time to type out some
That's how we rolled before got created.
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@FrostCat said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
[Ugh. @julianlam, @ben_lubar, selecting text and hitting Quote does weird things. It should probably ignore the selection and quote the entire post.]
[Don't select anything and just hit quote then...]
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@FrostCat said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
That's how we rolled before got created and forever immortalized, even though the emoji images have changed.
ATFY
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@FrostCat said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
selecting text and hitting Quote does weird things.
TIL. This feature is awesome, I like it.
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@FrostCat said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
[Ugh. @julianlam, @ben_lubar, selecting text and hitting Quote does weird things. It should probably ignore the selection and quote the entire post.]
/topic/20422/in-which-users-yell-at-ben_lubar-about-select-to-quote-sucking/
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@FrostCat said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
@Tsaukpaetra Yes, but probably not in the same way I was using the word (that is, derogatorily, because nothing says "I want to have a rational conversation" like insulting your counterpart's basic premises).
I face @error's dilemma here too, because on one side I see that people hold these convictions very strongly, in fact identify themselves by these convictions, and on the other side everything these people describe looks to me exactly like self-delusion, imaginary friends and angry sky wizards. I want to both understand and to ridicule, in roughtly equal amounts.
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@another_sam said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
everything these people describe looks to me exactly like self-delusion, imaginary friends and angry sky wizards
Color – 01:55
— observantdreamer
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AFAIK there is no law blocking you from you doing it the right way, like @arantor does.
You'll get into to trouble if you lie, and have 2 families where one doesn't know about the other, and you deserve the trouble if you do that.
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@Tsaukpaetra Huh.. looks better on a dark theme than:
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@candlejack1 what's the "right" way to do it?
As I understand it, you can only be in 1 state-recognized marriage. The only way around it is by just not getting a state-recognized marriage, but that's oppressive and discriminatory.
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@anotherusername considering it's been described here as a directed graph, it can be quite complicated to adjust all the laws for all cases. But it doesn't mean it is illegal. It has been recongnized by the state in my country, anyway, in at least one case that made the news.
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@candlejack1 said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
But it doesn't mean it is illegal.
In the US, it absolutely is illegal to marry more than one person. That's what the thread is about:
@Polygeekery said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
But seriously, why is polygamy illegal?
If I want to have a woman on the side, and my wife were OK with it, that is fine.
If I want to support some other woman, and my wife is OK with it, that is fine.
If I father other children, that is not illegal whether my wife is OK with it or not.
So why is polygamy illegal?
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@Yamikuronue it seems everything is illegal in the US
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@candlejack1 said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
You'll get into to trouble if you lie, and have 2 families where one doesn't know about the other
That seems like entirely too much work.
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@Yamikuronue said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
In the US, it absolutely is illegal to marry more than one person.
But I don't think it's illegal to be in a relationship with more than one. Just that the others carry greatly reduced legal weight, which matters for things like tax, powers of attorney, etc.
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@dkf Right, but the way I understand it, it's not polygamy unless you're marrying them, it's only polyamory at that point.
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@candlejack1 said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
been described here as a directed graph
Misogynist! Patriarchist!
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@dkf said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
But I don't think it's illegal to be in a relationship with more than one. Just that the others carry greatly reduced legal weight, which matters for things like tax, powers of attorney, etc.
That's where the waters get muddy. Some states have laws against things like cohabitation. Essentially, in those states it could be illegal for a man and wife to have a female roommate, etc.
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@Polygeekery said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
Some states have laws against things like cohabitation.
Really? Wow…
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@dkf really archaic and not typically enforced anymore, I'd imagine. Probably unconstitutional if it ever came to it.
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@dkf Yep. Which I believe is rooted in these laws being very anti-Mormon.
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@Polygeekery said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
Some states have laws against things like cohabitation.
Which ones? I would love to add to my list of benign illegal actions :D
ETA:
Florida, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Virginia, and West Virginia have anti-cohabitation laws on their books (although NC’s has been declared unconstitutional by a state court and should not be enforced).
Darn, I've only lived in NC of those states. Still, that's one, even if it was declared unconstitutional! I broke that law for something like 6 years?
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Groucho shows us how it's done:
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@Yamikuronue said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
Which ones? I would love to add to my list of benign illegal actions
I grew up in a small town, but the nearest semi-major city had a law on the books that no more than 3 women were allowed to live in the same house. This meant that although their colleges had fraternities and sororities, there were no sorority houses.
The law was a leftover from ye olde times when brothels were a major concern and the law was passed to prevent them.
So a law against whorehouses prevented sorority houses...that has to be a case of an arrow hitting its mark a century later.
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@Yamikuronue said in Why is polygamy illegal?:
I would love to add to my list of benign illegal actions