Vote of No Confidence
-
He is at the same level as the spanking BITCH from Enlightenment/Tizen
-
He is at the same level as the spanking BITCH from Enlightenment/Tizen
I wouldn't go quite that far myself.
but i think he's occasionally at the very least in the same general ballpark.
-
his actions [...] are causing him a lot of reputation damage amongst the group of people who will be installing, and supporting the end users on his forum software
Does that matter though? You don't market to the engineers, you market too the C-suite. Will the average C-suite ask for your opinion? Will they listen to it when given?
-
-
Will the average C-suite ask for your opinion?
No. but by the goddess will they get it.
Will they listen to it when given?
if they don't i do have an official black mesa crowbar....
-
You're all so stuck on one colour. Clearly, dates should be coldmapped, with older ones going towards red to warn you against reading all that old guff.
I thought they were supposed to go blue so as to be less "eye catching"[1].
[1] They will only be less eye catching according to Jeff. The actual shade of blue selected will, in fact, be more eye catching.
-
Blakeyrat.Wins.Again.
Just like an American to claim victory on a war they didn't start, or finish.
-
-
-
You're 37 and your name is Dennis?
-
I think the quality (or lack thereof) of the software itself is such a small factor in trying to build a viable, sustainable business. Everything else (marketing, packaging, service, etc.) is far more important, as is recognizing who your target audience is and isn't.
"I know all they sell is utter shit, but I admire them for always finding new morons who buy it." Sound about right?if they're providing them with the same hands-on service, *and* providing advice on how to build/foster a community, then it's a huge value.
I'd take community building advice from Jeff "Rageban" Atwood with a potentially lethal dose of salt, thank you very much.... and I feel my previous comment has lost all credibility.
Agreed.
-
"I know all they sell is utter shit, but I admire them for always finding new morons who buy it." Sound about right?
If it works for the multinationals why wouldn't it work for you?
-
You don't market to the engineers, you market too the C-suite.
Yes, but you've got to remember that the C-suite probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Discourse, Disqus, Flarum, NodeBB, phpBB, CS, Skype, Lotus Notes and an internet-connected hole in the ground.
-
@sam has been consistently professional
By self-banning with no explanation other than "time for you to GTFO"?
Yeah right, classy as fuck.
-
There weren't many instances of him being unprofessional. There were a couple - but they were outliers. Consistent != always.
-
As our former Prime Minister once said, "it doesn't matter how a man begins, how he finishes is what matters". And Sam went off with a bang.
Seriously, we still haven't gotten even a piece of explanation. Not even a small note saying "hey guys, we just had to haul Jeff off to a mental hospital and the doctors advise him to limit the interaction with this community, so sorry guys, we've got to cut you off". Nada. Just banhammer to the head every time someone from here speaks on meta.d.
-
There was some communication from @sam via email. I wasn't a principle in the conversation, so I won't divulge details other than to say something I think I've said (maybe not in so many words) before, which is that the friction between Jeff's style and ours lead to Jeff stressing out and making a command decision that we were PNG. It's possible that other communication happened at the Jeff / @apapadimoulis level (Alex says they're friends, after all), but I'm not privy to it.
-
There was some communication from @sam via email.
Off the record? Well, I guess it's better than nothing, though for anyone not involved in the conversation the result is pretty much as if nothing was said at all.
Jesus Christ, people, it's not that hard to write up a simple "we think you folks are incurable asshats and we're so fucking done with you" note rather than resort to fifth-grade offence taking and self-banning.
that the friction between Jeff's style and ours lead to Jeff stressing out and making a command decision that we were PNG.
Well, I guess I was just hoping for some more... rational explanation.
-
Well, I guess I was just hoping for some more... rational explanation.
Really? How can there be one? Other than the mental hospital already mentioned, of course.
-
the friction between Jeff's style and ours lead to Jeff stressing out and making a command decision that we were PNG.
Complaint-driven community building at its finest.
-
Jesus Christ, people, it's not that hard to write up a simple "we think you folks are incurable asshats and we're so fucking done with you" note rather than resort to fifth-grade offence taking and self-banning.
In my experience, most people don't know how to handle conflict and resort to childish passive-aggressiveness. Don't know if this is necessarily the case in this situation, but I've observed it countless times in real life.
-
the friction between Jeff's style and ours lead to Jeff stressing out
That's pretty much it. I look at it like... think of your past jobs; there probably came a point where you were like FML, I hate my job, and then you wanted to go home and never come back. But you didn't, because (1) you needed the money, (2) you didn't want to burn bridges, and/or (3) you didn't want to screw your company over.
So in this case, #1 doesn't apply, there weren't a whole lot of good bridges worth saving, and he very generously offered to pay a significant sum from his own, personal savings account to mitigate #3 (I declined).
Regardless of whether it was unprofessional/improper/whatever to rage quit and drop the ban hammer, it was probably cathartic and immediately removed the part about his job he hated. That probably was well worth whatever reputation/financial loss came out of it.
-
And if he hadn't been such a douchebag about things, we'd probably have been nicer to him in the first place.
-
Regardless of whether it was unprofessional/improper/whatever to rage quit and drop the ban hammer, it was probably cathartic and immediately removed the part about his job he hated.
I don't doubt it at all. But the way it transpired was very similar to the way he moderates meta.d. Which is to say, without notice. He could have come here and made a public post or something here, so at least everyone would know what happened. I mean, he obviously doesn't give a shit, so I guess I understand, but it's just more confirmation of what people here think about his professionalism.
That probably was well worth whatever reputation/financial loss came out of it.
I doubt there's any immediate financial loss. Longer term, they'll be slower to recognize bugs, but I suspect that personally, this will be a net positive for him.
-
And if he hadn't been such a douchebag about things, we'd probably have been nicer to him in the first place.
It took me a long while to realize that literally everyone involved is better off if I don't handle certain customer/support inquiries. I don't deal well with people telling me that we're doing it wrong (don't even say it, @CodingHorrorBot), when I know we aren't, and I just argue, and waste my time and annoy them.
Could be a similar scenario, but I'll say it's hard to step away because you want to stay close to customers and find people who can properly rep. For me, it was finally accepting, "my team won't respond exactly how I would like them to, and that's ok."
he obviously doesn't give a shit
I don't think that's true, he definitely wants the community to go on and thrive (hence the offer to finance a transition), he just can't/won't be a part of it at all. He did ask me to tell you this, so that you're not all in the dark.
-
@apapadimoulis Is Doing It Wrong™
-
I don't think that's true, he definitely wants the community to go on and thrive (hence the offer to finance a transition)
Sorry, should have been clearer. I was referring (I think...got a bottle of Russian vodka as a present yesterday, which may or may not be interfering here...) to his way of refusing to communicate with people who do things that need to be moderated on his forum. His philosophy is that it isn't worth telling people what they did wrong, because they'll never learn, so might as well just delete the stuff he thinks is inappropriate until eventually they build up a portfolio that's worth banning.
I've had this discussion with him in meta.d topics and in PMs there. The way he handled this is totally predictable if your'e familiar with his moderation and communication technique.
-
-
If @apapadimoulis is friends with them, wouldnt be appropriated to hide meta from google?
Even if they were not friends I think we shouldn't expose this dirt to the open intertubes. Maybe he is to nice to ask? @pjh?
-
Did you get a bottle of vodka too?
-
No, I am campaigning for a mug
-
And if he hadn't been such a douchebag about things, we'd probably have been nicer to him in the first place.
I think that @sam was in a bit of an awkward position, in that he wanted to troll and be trolled like anyone else here, but he was also acting as the public face of DiscoLLC whether he wanted to or not.
If I was in his position, I'd probably open a new account on here anonymously...
-
@Arantor said:
That may be closer to the truth than you think.... Oh ho ho ho...And if he hadn't been such a douchebag about things, we'd probably have been nicer to him in the first place.
I think that @sam was in a bit of an awkward position, in that he wanted to troll and be trolled like anyone else here, but he was also acting as the public face of DiscoLLC whether he wanted to or not.
If I was in his position, I'd probably open a new account on here anonymously...
He should of just raged quit like any one else in the forum. "Fuck you guys I'm fucking off" not fucking drop the ban hammer, delete users and posts and in general try to manage the community. A brief glance over the previous forums would of shown him that letting the lunatics run the asylum is a better form of management for this community. He could of gotten a fuck ton of free QA but he just shat all over it or am I in the minority of thinking QA helps improve the product.
-
He should of just raged quit like any one else in the forum.
Actually, he kind of did that once before.
-
Good for Sam. He excised himself from a place that was toxic for him.
I was actually referring to cuntwood. My apologies not not making that clear.
-
he very generously offered to pay a significant sum from his own, personal savings account to mitigate #3
I don't think that's true, he definitely wants the community to go on and thrive (hence the offer to finance a transition), he just can't/won't be a part of it at all. He did ask me to tell you this, so that you're not all in the dark.
This slightly eases my new …distaste for Jeff. And given that I've said CDCK's biggest issue is
@apapadimoulis said:that literally everyone involved is better off if
IJeff doesn't handle certain customer/support inquiries
I can't hold the indirect communication of such against him.
-
That may be closer to the truth than you think.... Oh ho ho ho...
He should of just raged quit like any one else in the forum. "Fuck you guys I'm fucking off" not fucking drop the ban hammer, delete users and posts and in general try to manage the community. A brief glance over the previous forums would of shown him that letting the lunatics run the asylum is a better form of management for this community. He could of gotten a fuck ton of free QA but he just shat all over it or am I in the minority of thinking QA helps improve the product.
You're confusing Jeff and Sam. Sam didn't ban us and all, that was Jeff. Sam self-banned from here (but he did act like he was part of the community. Or at least, as much as he could be...)
-
was actually referring to cuntwood. My apologies not not making that clear.
Well, you did not make it clear by quoting a post that referred to @Sam and then going on your tirade. So, people did what people do and looked at the context. Which, in no way what so ever would have led them to think of @dickwood.
You are not very good at this communicating thing. Are you blakey's brother?
-
In my experience, most people don't know how to handle conflict and resort to childish passive-aggressiveness
Fuck you. Give me mediation.
-
-
-
@DogsB said:
Not particularity. Its why I spend most of my time ranting instead of conversing.was actually referring to cuntwood. My apologies not not making that clear.
Well, you did not make it clear by quoting a post that referred to @Sam and then going on your tirade. So, people did what people do and looked at the context. Which, in no way what so ever would have led them to think of @dickwood.
You are not very good at this communicating thing. Are you blakey's brother?
-
@PleegWat said:
You don't market to the engineers, you market too the C-suite.
Yes, but you've got to remember that the C-suite probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Discourse, Disqus, Flarum, NodeBB, phpBB, CS, Skype, Lotus Notes and an internet-connected hole in the ground.
-
Read that as@Lorne_Kates said:
Fuck you. Give me medication.
That'd probably work, too.
@Lorne_Kates said:
Fuck you. Give me
mediationmoney.You're slipping…
Money can buy medication.
More money can buy "interesting" medication.
Even more money can buy off the right authorities to turn a blind eye to the medication.
Shitloads of money will let you buy a company and increase the cost of affordable, life-saving medication by 5000% because you're a shitlord.
-
That reminds me of the joke about the difference between the Catholic couple and the Jewish couple. With the Catholic couple, the wife tells the husband to buy Viagra. With the Jewish couple, the wife tells the husband to buy Pfizer.
-
Ever since Discourse was updated, roughly 900 threads I was tracking have been lost due to the sheer incompetence of the developers, because apparently the needs of their database outweigh my needs as a user. Not that they could even craft a sane database query in the first place, otherwise they might actually do that rather than throw my user data right into the toilet along with the site's already abysmal UX. Now I can't even find the thread where people are complaining about the new update.
So I'm going to bitch about it here. I hate the new update. I hate the fact that it'll doubtless have several script injection vulnerabilities which will force yet another update, which will probably get rid of, ooh, avatars, or maybe merge likes into bookmarks or whatever inane fad or outright fucktarded idea they've become obsessed with this week.
The only thing I have confidence in is that no matter how bad Discourse currently is, the Discodevs will somehow contrive to make it actually worse on the next update, even when you think it must surely have hit rock bottom this time.
-
Ever since Discourse was updated, roughly 900 threads I was tracking have been lost due to the sheer incompetence of the developers, because apparently the needs of their database outweigh my needs as a user. Not that they could even craft a sane database query in the first place, otherwise they might actually do that rather than throw my user data right into the toilet along with the site's already abysmal UX.
I foolishly thought that when Sam said he'd "look into fixing this" or whatever exact words he used, he meant before they pushed out a release version with the horrible hack in it. Because once the hack goes into a release version, the database for affected users is forevermore fucked.
Of course, I was wrong. (Quick, everybody, tell me how Sam is God among software developers!)
Now I can't even find the thread where people are complaining about the new update.
https://what.thedailywtf.com/t/how-can-this-be-so-wrong-aka-the-discocalypse-thread/51117
-
Not that they could even craft a sane database query in the first place
Doing that would first require proper use of indices and foreign keys and other good RDBMS practices. But apparently they would rather save a few precious microseconds on inserts then actual seconds on queries.
-
And not sending the ID of every new or unread tracked topic down when loading the numbers for the counters.
-
Personally, I love Markdown. The Endless Scroll thing is terrible, though.
