How To Demoralize Employees: A DIY Guide for Terrible Companies

One way to demoralize an employee is to send one developer to the client to discuss a major new feature, then to move him offsite two fays later and expect a new developer to pixk up where he left off without any briefing.

HardwareGeek

Seems like a good way to demoralize the client, too.

BDH

Yep. This place swaps developers around like partners at a swingers orgy. Nobody is on a project for long enough to be held truly accountable and at the moment I am the dude who has been left holding the hot potato and deal with the now completely obstructive client. Fun. Fun. Fun.

boomzilla

Office key party!

HardwareGeek

How is it that your employer still has any clients, if they do that?

accalia

@HardwareGeek said:

How is it that your employer still has any clients, if they do that?

Stockholm Syndrome.

D_Coder

@Polygeekery said:

As I always say, "Under-promise so that you can over-deliver". When you tell them it will take a month to get done and you get it done in 3.5 weeks even though they added on a shitload more stuff, they are super happy. If they are not, you don't want to work with them anyway.

I had a list of tasks, put one off until the end because it looked nasty. Discovered that in fact the task description was completely off and it was trivial to fix. Fixed it and told my boss that I was out of tasks.

Boss complained that I need to give it more lead time to come up with more tasks.

I promised not to finish tasks faster than estimated any more.

FrostCat

@D_Coder said:

I promised not to finish tasks faster than estimated any more.

So much for developing a reputation as a miracle worker.

fwd

Happened across this blog post via stackoverflow today, discussing why they layout their offices the way they do versus open plans that everyone still thinks are good ideas for some reason.

Jan 16, 2015

Why We (Still) Believe in Private Offices - Stack Overflow

I would say this is decidedly non-WTF given the source. Of course it's self promotional in nature, so it has to be considered with that in mind, but it actually sounds like an awesome environment to work in.

In that post they reference an article about facebook building a new open plan office space that covers 10 freaking acres. I guess their philosophy is if you're gonna do something wrong, do it as much as you can.

My first job I was mostly in a cube, until they started picking up business by send us developers onsite to other businesses for temporary contracts. The one place was like a converted warehouse. I got put in the back corner under a cold air feed or return or something, in February on the great plains. I had a space heater, hoodie, heavy jacket and occasionally full gloves on when I was dealing with that. Another was a run down office building with carpet torn up everywhere and about 14 hours worth of 90's pop music looping on the PA system, presumably installed when the songs were reasonably fresh and never changed. They also used powerbuilder and oracle which I was fortunate enough to escape by getting reassigned.

After that was a job in the web dept at an ad agency. It was a wide open plan in the back of the building, with bare concrete floors. The speakers were hooked up to an airport, so anyone with the software could take control of the music selection, which I typically judged unfit for listening. I sat next to one PM, who is the nicest most genuine person I have ever met, but the other hambeast of a PM had decided they were friends and was constantly coming over to gossip at her in whispered tones. Also the heat rarely worked, and again this is through winter in the plains.

At this job I sit in a cube, but it's mostly quiet and easy enough to not get distracted. There is no background music, I'm close to a window, and everything is generally awesome.

Long rant over, thanks for reading or skipping over.

Weng

My team is looking to relocate. I can tell you with a CERTAINTY that the driver behind open plan offices is cost. For us (about 40 folks and some specialized equipment that we need to purchase because we can't take the stuff we use now with us), the difference between open plan, cube plan, and offices is $400k first year, $600k first year, $1.5M construction project we can't move into for a year.

You need to buy enough desks no matter what model you follow (though some companies try to skimp on that, including mine - we have contractors in one of our offices sitting at low filing cabinets). These cost basically the same whether you go with a cube integrated desk, a normal office-y desk, or a postmodern Open Plan Benching System™

Open plan and cube farm plan both use the same amount of space, and the same physical type of space - large open rooms. They're very common, and in a pinch you can convert old warehouse or factory space readily.

However, on open plan, you don't have to buy cube walls. Which, by the way, are GODAWFUL EXPENSIVE. An easy $200-300 per panel, plus all the fittings, which are friggin' expensive ($25 for a panel link. You need two to link two panels together (top and bottom), and installation costs.

With open plan, you have longer sight lines, so you need less lighting and fewer security cameras.

And then there's the private offices model. Simply put, these spaces basically don't exist on the market. If you want one, you have to build it. That is not cheap. Each office needs it's own sprinkler system coverage. Independent lighting. Independent (or near independent) HVAC. Doors. Which cost SHITLOADS. And they probably need to be fire rated! And you need to pay to build it.

Sure, your employees might be massively more productive, but let's be honest - most places don't employ enough programmers and not in a revenue-generating capacity to justify that sort of expense to the beancounters even if they were interested. And for many other classes of worker, offices likely lower productivity. If your sales guys see the nerds have personal, private offices, what do you think is going to happen? And they're out of town 3 out of every five weeks!

A dumbassed thing that I've seen tried a few times is to take an office and jam 3-4 programmers in it. I work in one of those now. Yes, the door stays open all the time. Yes, I know the preferred conference room for entertaining clients is across the hall. No, I don't care that they can hear me saying how much this place, and I quote, "fucking sucks"

flabdablet

@fwd said:

facebook building a new open plan office space that covers 10 freaking acres.

antiquarian

DO NOT WANT.

I don't want any of those chickens either.

PleegWat

We're in shared offices - about 6x6 meters for 4-5 developers. This works pretty well in my experience, but we're one scrum team together and the setup facilitates ad-hoc meetings.
We've had a couple other distributions in the past, all before we used scrum, though I've never worked in a cubicle farm.

BDH

Just got back from a 1 hour roasting by the client about code quality - 90% of which I didn't write. Couldn't burn the source of my paycheque, couldn't argue with the points he was making.

So it goes.

cvi

@Weng said:

and fewer security cameras.

You have security cameras covering all of the office space? Wtf?

Luhmann

@cvi said:

cameras covering all of the office space

That would be a big no-no here.

CreatedToDislikeThis

@cvi said:

You have security cameras covering all of the office space? Wtf?

It's to be able to hold employees accountable for any damages done while revolting.

dkf

@CreatedToDislikeThis said:

It's to be able to hold employees accountable for any damages done while revolting over the intrusive camera coverage.

FTFY.

Weng

No, but I suspect this is a function if 'not owning the building' rather than 'lack of desire'

tarunik

@Weng said:

And then there's the private offices model. Simply put, these spaces basically don't exist on the market. If you want one, you have to build it. That is not cheap. Each office needs it's own sprinkler system coverage. Independent lighting. Independent (or near independent) HVAC. Doors. Which cost SHITLOADS. And they probably need to be fire rated! And you need to pay to build it.

Sure, your employees might be massively more productive, but let's be honest - most places don't employ enough programmers and not in a revenue-generating capacity to justify that sort of expense to the beancounters even if they were interested. And for many other classes of worker, offices likely lower productivity. If your sales guys see the nerds have personal, private offices, what do you think is going to happen? And they're out of town 3 out of every five weeks!

Definitely worth the investment for a dedicated software firm, though.

Also, @Weng...check your PMs.

Polygeekery

@Luhmann said:

That would be a big no-no here.

Why?

Luhmann

@Polygeekery said:

Why?

Because that is prohibited by law. Camera's may only be installed and used (e.g. the images reviewed) for external security, for example record everybody coming in/going out. If you wish to use them for internal security, let's say to check who's stealing the company cookies then you have to get permission. Either through the unions/employee representation or through a judge. Employees have to be notified of the use and intent of the employer. They can't be used for any other purpose. If you install them to discover who steals the cookies and you notice that someone slacking off all day but not stealing cookies, you can't use the images as evidence or act upon them. You could barge in a few times and fire the slackers ass anyhow but you can't use the images as proof.

Polygeekery

@Luhmann said:

Because that is prohibited by law.

Mother of god. I am glad I live in a place that is still half-ass free. I am of the opinion that you should be able to install cameras in a building you own for internal security...and if you happen to find that an employee is shit because of that...you can fire them.

accalia

@Polygeekery said:

if you happen to find that an employee is shit because of that...you can fire them.

as i understand it from @Luhmann's example. Assuming you have permission to use the cameras for some other purpose and find that an employee is slacking off you can use that information to get the proof they are slacking off (by simply barging into their office/cube when they're slacking off, and fire them that way), you just can't use the cameras as primary evidence

filed under: I AM NOT A LAWYER! DO NOT TAKE WHAT I HAVE SAID AS LEGAL ADVICE!

Polygeekery

But you cannot install cameras, for internal security, without permission from some freaking labor group. If I own the building, I should be able to do whatever I wish with it (as long as it does not cause safety issues).

Here is the problem with their plan, as I see how it would pertain to US law: Under their scheme, you could prove that someone accessed the building in event of a crime, but you could not prove what they did when they accessed it. That would be highly circumstantial evidence and pretty much rubbish for a conviction.

accalia

oh.... your complaint was for the other side of the issue....

yeah i got nothing there.

you could probably help isolate things by using keycards for internal business access so you could reasonably lcoalize employees based on where they swiped their badge last.... but that's still not a very good solution

Luhmann

@accalia said:

you just can't use the cameras as primary evidence

exactly! Not for the sacking part anyway ... The court could still use them as evidence in your criminal complaint about the employee stealing the fridge. Once convicted you can sack him. To be honest: in that kind of case the judge deciding if you sacked your employee without proper reason still might side with you because of the obviousness.

Luhmann

@Polygeekery said:

you could prove that someone accessed the building in event of a crime, but you could not prove what they did when they accessed it. That would be highly circumstantial evidence and pretty much rubbish for a conviction.

No, because you are installing camera's in hallways and the like. Just inform the employees and don't count on using the images to check how many time an employee spends at his desk or outside smoking.

Polygeekery

@Luhmann said:

The court could still use them as evidence in your criminal complaint about the employee stealing the fridge.

Yeah, but that is the problem, anything smaller than a fridge of a big ass TV could be stolen without it showing on the external cameras. Having to ask permission from unions in order to do something to provide security for my building, does not sit well with me.

If I only have external cameras and such, I can only prove that a person was present at roughly the time that an incident occurs. In theory, that could mean that a person could ransack the accountant's office, steal cash, and get away with it as you would have no idea who was where inside the building.

Polygeekery

@Luhmann said:

No, because you are installing camera's in hallways and the like. Just inform the employees and don't count on using the images to check how many time an employee spends at his desk or outside smoking.

So, if I understand correctly now, you can install them in common areas, etc., without having to pray to the union gods, but you cannot install them in work areas? Makes more sense, but I would still prefer greater coverage.

BTW, I also believe that if you are working for a company that spends time perusing the DVR in order to find people to discipline because they for some reason believe that everyone should give 100%...100% of the time that they are on-premise...you should probably look for another job and not work for cocks. Everyone slacks off and no reasonable person would expect and employee to be able to concentrate perfectly for 8 hours at a time. Our brains do not work that way. I have a couch in my office, because dammit...sometimes I need a quick nap.