Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
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@cursorkeys said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
a breaker
Oh thank you for clarifying. I was assuming you meant the appetizer between third course and dessert.
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@jaloopa said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@boomzilla A state in which you can boot faster?
I know you're kind of slow, but no.
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@blakeyrat said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@boomzilla said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
The problem with the Windows implementation is the state in which it leaves the drive.
The state of "working perfectly fine"? Yeah, that is a huge problem.
Why don't you just update your shitty Linux bootloader made by idiots that doesn't work right? Let me guess: because there is no fix, because it's shitty.
The Linux bootloader has nothing to do with NTFS partition being marked dirty...
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@blakeyrat said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@boomzilla said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
The problem with the Windows implementation is the state in which it leaves the drive.
The state of "working perfectly fine"?
I think you're confused.
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- You know, there's a GRUB module for detecting hibernated Windows and booting directly into it. You could use that.
- You know, there's a GRUB module for detecting hibernated Windows and invalidating the
hiberfil
if you don't boot into it. You could use that. - You know, there's now a GRUB module for detecting the difference between fastboot hibernated Windows, regular hibernated Windows, and battery emergency hibernated Windows, and acting accordingly. You could use that.
- You know, there's an off switch for fastboot. You could use that.
I've used option #1 most of the past decade, and switched to option #3 when it became available. Most multibooters use option #4.
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@twelvebaud I have applied a much more final solution, actually.
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@boomzilla is a Computer Nazi confirmed.
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@boomzilla said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@twelvebaud I have applied a much more final solution, actually.
If we're to interpret this to mean you've removed all fastboot capability, congrats - you've probably broken something and removed an optional feature which you may want to turn on in the future.
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@pie_flavor said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
If we're to interpret this to mean you've removed all fastboot capability, congrats
That would be gross understatement, but it's fair to say that there's no chance of Windows fastbooting going on.
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@boomzilla Well, what'd you do? Mister I'm-so-mysterious-for-windowsing?
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@pie_flavor said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@boomzilla Well, what'd you do? Mister I'm-so-mysterious-for-windowsing?
Srsly? I removed Windows.
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@boomzilla Have fun.
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@pie_flavor said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@boomzilla Have fun.
Thanks. I am!
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For unknown raisins I decided to waste some time with Windows 10 again. Popped in the SSD with Win10 on it and started doing stuff.
A short time later . . .
In order to make Windows better we need to install some updates and restart
Restart now or later
OK. Reboot now.
Configuring updates. Do not turn off your PC.
reboots
Configuring updates. Do not turn off your PC.
Could not apply updates. Rolling back changes.
reboots
Blue Screen of Death. Thread stuck in device driver.
reboots
Could not apply updates. Rolling back changes.
FUCK YOU
https://i.imgur.com/bqOjS8b.png
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@el_heffe When I upgrade my Debian 8 to 9, I'll let you know how it goes, just to compare a well-designed commercial software to an open-sour one designed by random retards living in basements
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@timebandit said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@el_heffe When I upgrade my Debian 8 to 9, I'll let you know how it goes, just to compare a well-designed commercial software to an open-sour one designed by random retards living in basements
There is an alternative that's better than Windows 10 or any version of Linux.
Windows 7. (with or without Firefox 22)
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@boomzilla said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@pie_flavor said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@boomzilla Well, what'd you do? Mister I'm-so-mysterious-for-windowsing?
Srsly? I removed Windows.
You are kidding aren't you?
Are you saying that this linux can run on a computer without windows underneath it, at all ? As in, without a boot disk, without any drivers, and without any services ?
That sounds preposterous to me.
If it were true (and I doubt it), then companies would be selling computers without a windows. This clearly is not happening, so there must be some error in your calculations. I hope you realise that windows is more than just Office ? Its a whole system that runs the computer from start to finish, and that is a very difficult thing to acheive. A lot of people dont realise this.
Microsoft just spent $9 billion and many years to create Windows 10 Fall Creators Update, so it does not sound reasonable that some new alternative could just snap into existence overnight like that. It would take billions of dollars and a massive effort to achieve. IBM tried, and spent a huge amount of money developing OS/2 but could never keep up with Windows. Apple tried to create their own system for years, but finally gave up recently and moved to Intel and Microsoft.
Its just not possible that a freeware like the Linux could be extended to the point where it runs the entire computer fron start to finish, without using some of the more critical parts of windows. Not possible.
I think you need to re-examine your assumptions.
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@hungrier said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
I think you need to re-examine your ass
I'm on it!
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@hungrier said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Are you saying that this linux can run on a computer without windows underneath it, at all ?
You can have Linux on a window
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@boomzilla said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@hungrier said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
I think you need to re-examine your ass
I'm on it!
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This post is deleted!
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@el_heffe I just updated with zero issues. You're .
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@twelvebaud said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@scarlet_manuka said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
since all the applications I use to do my real work don't get restarted,
They've had over a decade to Get With The Program. Restart Manager came out with Vista.
And your point? "Devs don't take advantage of all Windows new features" is not exactly news, especially in enterprise software.
Why do you have Excel spreadsheets open that need to be renamed? Why is version disambiguation needed?
Choose between last saved version and autosaved version (sometimes multiple autosaved versions). If you pick the autosaved version, which is common because that's usually the latest version, you have to rename it to save it unless you want the stupid name and extension Excel gives it - it doesn't just save it over the top of the original file which is almost always what you want it to do.
ETA: Also, if you have unsaved workbooks it's usually not long before you have multiple "Book2..." things to choose between as well (an autosaved one from the last session plus a completely different new one from this session).
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@scarlet_manuka said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@twelvebaud said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@scarlet_manuka said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
since all the applications I use to do my real work don't get restarted,
They've had over a decade to Get With The Program. Restart Manager came out with Vista.
And your point? "Devs don't take advantage of all Windows new features" is not exactly news, especially in enterprise software.
Speaking of Restart Manager, I noticed following the following about things that did and didn't restart after today's failed attempt to install the update that's been failing for the last two months:
- Restarted (and restored all the tabs that were open): Chrome
- Restarted (but didn't properly restore the tabs): IE
- Did not restart: MS's recommended, latest and greatest browser.
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@timebandit said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@hungrier said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Are you saying that this linux can run on a computer without windows underneath it, at all ?
You can have Linux on a window
Actually, this would be Tux, not Linux, if anything. ;)
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@hardwaregeek I find that Edge is a bit flaky. And of course some sites(1) can get into weird states that can only be fixed by having your browser toss its cookies, and Edge doesn't have an option to toss only those cookies.
(1) Example: swtor.com, where you can end up with the main game info part of the site thinking you are logged in while the forums think you are not logged in, and if you try to log in from the forums, you end up at the "thanks for logging in" screen that you normally never seen (without being prompted to log in) but the forums are still not logged in. Logging out on the main site is not sufficient, and you have to clean up the swtor.com and ea.com cookies. But on Edge, that means tossing all the cookies in a steaming pile on the floor somewhere.
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@pie_flavor said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@el_heffe I just updated with zero issues. You're .
this is how that post showed up for me:
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@kt_ ITYM GNU/Tux
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@hungrier said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
You are kidding aren't you?
Are you saying that this linux can run on a computer without windows underneath it, at all ? As in, without a boot disk, without any drivers, and without any services ?
That sounds preposterous to me.
If it were true (and I doubt it), then companies would be selling computers without a windows. This clearly is not happening, so there must be some error in your calculations. I hope you realise that windows is more than just Office ? Its a whole system that runs the computer from start to finish, and that is a very difficult thing to acheive. A lot of people dont realise this.
Microsoft just spent $9 billion and many years to create Windows 10 Fall Creators Update, so it does not sound reasonable that some new alternative could just snap into existence overnight like that. It would take billions of dollars and a massive effort to achieve. IBM tried, and spent a huge amount of money developing OS/2 but could never keep up with Windows. Apple tried to create their own system for years, but finally gave up recently and moved to Intel and Microsoft.
Its just not possible that a freeware like the Linux could be extended to the point where it runs the entire computer fron start to finish, without using some of the more critical parts of windows. Not possible.
I think you need to re-examine your assumptions.
10/10. Would definitely read again.
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@pie_flavor said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@el_heffe I just updated with zero issues. You're .
How the fuck do you do Windows update wrong ?
Is it a manual process ?
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@timebandit said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
How the fuck do you do Windows update
wrongright ?
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@timebandit said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
How the fuck do you do Windows update wrong ?
I clicked.
@timebandit said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Is it a manual process ?
Yes, I had to manually press the reset button three times before it decided to roll back.
I still don't have Creator's Update. The first one.
Filed under: Coming next: Creator's Update One
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@steve_the_cynic said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
I find that Edge is a bit flaky.
REALLY!?!?!
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@timebandit said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
How the fuck do you do Windows update wrong ?
Is it a manual process ?I don't; it just happens. Every Monday morning, I get a notification that IT requires me to install new software. From that point on, it is automatic and unstoppable. Something gets downloaded, and Tuesday afternoon the laptop will automatically reboot to (unsuccessfully) finish the install (unless I manually initiate the reboot sooner, of course). Every week. For the last 2+ months.
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@hardwaregeek said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@steve_the_cynic said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
I find that Edge is a bit flaky.
REALLY!?!?!
Yeah, a bit of a (non-)surprise there. Heck, it's a web browser. Every web browser I've ever used was flaky in one way or another, from my very first meanderings with Netscape Navigator 1.0 all the way up to Edge.
And don't forget IE3 (Win95 OSR2) which by 2000 was locked out of even Microsoft's own website because the servers refused to support HTTP/0.9.
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@hardwaregeek Have you tried turning it off and on again ?
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@pie_flavor said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@el_heffe I just updated with zero issues. You're .
I clicked on Restart Now.
What part of that did I do wrong?
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@hungrier said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@kt_ ITYM GNU/Tux
Definitely not! Tux is Torvalds’s and he doesn’t buy into this whole silly gnu slash idea!
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@el_heffe said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@pie_flavor said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@el_heffe I just updated with zero issues. You're .
I clicked on Restart Now.
What part of that did I do wrong?
Funny, I did something similar and it just greyed out. A short time later red text came up saying Windows was having trouble restarting.
What the fuck? What does that even mean?
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Well, my machine finally upgraded itself to FCU. In general, there's not a lot to say, except for the shutdown thing.
It isn't Fast Startup. That's still off. But if I use the "normal" methods of shutting down, it (in the words of a Microsoft guy on the Win10 forums) "bookmarks" the running applications so as to provide a more "seamless" experience by restarting them as you log in.
Yes, a sort of reverse semi-hibernate (an etanrebih-imes ?) where instead of closing the user's state and hibernating the core of the system, it saves the user's state and closes the core of the system.
And there's no option to turn this off. Microsoft Guy seemed to be trying to persuade people that this was a good thing, except that they weren't buying it. His proposed workaround until they add the option to turn it off (in March/April 2018)? Always close all the applications before shutting down.
Well, he also told a lie. He made it sound as if they have changed what "shutdown" means as "core behaviour". They haven't. They've added a new "mode" of shutdown and made it the non-configurable default mode from the various GUI shutdown tools.
I now have a shortcut on my desktop that runs
shutdown.exe /s /f /t 0
to force a "normal" app-closing shutdown.EDIT: it's a bad thing because it can leak information to anyone who happens to look over your shoulder as you log in to do an on-site demo. Whatever you were working on when you shut down reappears on the screen, including that "burn before reading" / "eyes only" document that your customers aren't supposed to be able to see (yet). I can't imagine corporate users being amused by this, unless Enterprise doesn't do it.
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@steve_the_cynic said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
unless Enterprise doesn't do it
I have Enterprise, and I can occasionally see glimpses of what's on my desktop when the only thing that should be visible is the lock screen. They're too brief to actually read, but somebody with a camera ready...
I'm not sure if this happens before login, but it definitely happens when unlocking.
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@hardwaregeek said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
I'm not sure if this happens before login, but it definitely happens when unlocking.
Yeah. Fun fact: Windows doesn't actually lock the screen when the screensaver starts. Instead, it waits until you interact with the machine (which exits the screensaver/monitor off applet), and then loads the lock screen.
So, if there's any sort of delay between Windows noticing the screensaver exiting and the lock screen loading, you'll see whatever desktop contents were there before.
Was really great when I had a 3d screensaver that took ages to unload, despite it closing and clearing the always-on-top window it used to display itself.
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I noticed my parents computer had failed automatically istalling the FCU all autumn. I sat down and glared angrily at the computer while the install was running. The FCU is now installed.
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I now have some interesting behavior from my computer. In hibernate it will now randomly start up, usually in the middle of the night when I'm trying to sleep.
It does this regardless of pending updates. All wake triggers are disabled and the last wake reason is, helpfully, 'nothing'.
I've had to resort to removing the plug after it hibernates.
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@tsaukpaetra said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Yeah. Fun fact: Windows doesn't actually lock the screen when the screensaver starts. Instead, it waits until you interact with the machine (which exits the screensaver/monitor off applet), and then loads the lock screen.
And then people complain that xscreensaver on Linux is a hack...
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@steve_the_cynic said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
But if I use the "normal" methods of shutting down, it (in the words of a Microsoft guy on the Win10 forums) "bookmarks" the running applications so as to provide a more "seamless" experience by restarting them as you log in.
I guess I'm just weird. I've never ever thought "Gee, I wish everything I was working on before would automagically load next time I turn on my computer."
Seriously, that sounds really stupid and like a major pain in the ass. I'm perfectly capable of deciding what I want to work on, thankyouverymuch. But, in all fairness to the dumbasses at Microsoft, I'm not having a problem with their new "feature" because:
And there's no option to turn this off. ..... His proposed workaround until they add the option to turn it off (in March/April 2018)? Always close all the applications before shutting down.
I've been doing that since . . . . forever.
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@el_heffe said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@steve_the_cynic said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
But if I use the "normal" methods of shutting down, it (in the words of a Microsoft guy on the Win10 forums) "bookmarks" the running applications so as to provide a more "seamless" experience by restarting them as you log in.
I guess I'm just weird. I've never ever thought "Gee, I wish everything I was working on before would automagically load next time I turn on my computer."
Seriously, that sounds really stupid and like a major pain in the ass. I'm perfectly capable of deciding what I want to work on, thankyouverymuch. But, in all fairness to the dumbasses at Microsoft, I'm not having a problem with their new "feature" because:
And there's no option to turn this off. ..... His proposed workaround until they add the option to turn it off (in March/April 2018)? Always close all the applications before shutting down.
I've been doing that since . . . . forever.
Yeah, he meant doing it manually rather than letting the shutdown process do it. It was a bit surprising the first time I started it up after shutting it down, only to find Task Manager already up and running (it's not autostarted under normal circumstances).
And people were also complaining that they told this or that tool to not start when Windows starts (the particular example was a VPN manager, but e.g. Skype, Steam, and a host of others are also relevant), only to find that because they left it running(1) when they shut down, it was loaded when they started up again.
(1) Steam puts itself in the systray thing if you just click the X to close it. To make it actually shut down, you have to use the menus, which is Steam's own , but one repeated across many, many programs.
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Installed the Fall Creators Update today on my laptop while I was at work, because the thing had come up asking me if I wanted to the other day (I told it to go away and ask me in three days and three days was up today).
Oddly, this update went a bit weird and probably the weirdest one I've had so far since using Windows 10. Not bad weird, mind - just little things. Like for some reason, it reset my wallpaper back to the Windows default one, and then eventually picked up and used the wallpaper I had on my desktop. It also forgot our wifi network so I had to reintroduce them.
It did remember, though, that the cellular should be off so that was nice (I do need to check if Windows has been relieved of its notion that cellular > wifi, though)
edit: Wondered why my internet was slow, it turns out it also turned the Store's "Update when on wifi" setting back on which I turned off because we have 5mbit of bandwidth to share over three people, and one computer downloading app updates eats all of that bandwidth.
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@douglasac said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
it also turned the Store's "Update when on wifi" setting back on
Actually it forgot to copy that setting over from your old operating system to your new operating system. Because who needs to keep UWP app settings across upgrades anyway?
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@lb_ Weirdly again, that was the only UWP app that forgot its setting.
Stan remembered my login, as did Netflix, the Clock app still has my timers, and the Weather app remembers where I am (or, at least, that it's allowed to figure out where I am).