GIF or JIF?
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@gurth said in GIF or JIF?:
If you’re arguing that a <g> before <i> is always /dʒ/, how do you pronounce the word “gills”?
@gurth I'm not arguing that gills has a soft g, I'm arguing that I find soft-g is easier to pronounce than a hard-g, and so when making up a word from whole cloth, you should, IMHO, use a soft g if it's the first letter in the word. But I'm not advocating pronunciation reform for existing words – that's a fool's errand.
Mind you, my family liked to play the pronounce-words-like-they're-spelled game as I was growing up, so I'm no stranger to mangling words for fun
and profit. But I'm not king of the English language, so I don't get to change everyone else's pronunciation.
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The fact that you have to ask if it's pronounced "GIF" or "JIF" should be evidence enough that "JIF" is wrong.
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I pronounce the G in GIF like the G in Giraffe, not like the G in Girl.
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It wasn't until I came here that I even realised it wasn't hard-G because not just me but everyone around me had it with a hard G.
Mind you, I'm the kid who in absence of anything else arrived at the pronunciation of 'integer' somehow being 'in-tee-grrr' rather than 'int-e-jer' as it really is, so I'm not sure I'm a good benchmark....
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@khudzlin said in GIF or JIF?:
@hungrier Contrary to stereotypes, you can't just add a definite article before something to make it French.
That's right, you also have to make sure that at least somewhere in le neighbourhoode of half the letters are silent.
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@djls45 said in GIF or JIF?:
@zecc said in GIF or JIF?:
OpenGL
o-PENG-gull?
What about pengwens, better known as penguins?
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@anotherusername said in GIF or JIF?:
@khudzlin said in GIF or JIF?:
@hungrier Contrary to stereotypes, you can't just add a definite article before something to make it French.
That's right, you also have to make sure that at least somewhere in le neighbourhoode of half the letters are silent.
In French it's actually spelled le giouaffe.
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@arantor said in GIF or JIF?:
It wasn't until I came here that I even realised it wasn't hard-G
Neither had I until I read the relevant passage in the book I mentioned.
Mind you, I'm the kid who in absence of anything else arrived at the pronunciation of 'integer' somehow being 'in-tee-grrr' rather than 'int-e-jer' as it really is, so I'm not sure I'm a good benchmark....
In my experience, this is fairly typical of non-native English-speakers who mainly go by spelling rather than listening to pronunciation in TV shows, movies, songs, etc. The unexpected placement of accents in many loanwords (especially Greek and Latin ones) in English makes them even more difficult than many others, I think, and probably even for native English-speakers who also only know the word from having seen it written down.
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@gurth said in GIF or JIF?:
and probably even for native English-speakers who also only know the word from having seen it written down.
That explains it for me, especially as this was in the era where I was... I think 7 or 8.
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@da-doctah said in GIF or JIF?:
Pronounced JIF if you pronounce the first word jiraffic.
Exactly. I've never understood how this ever became an argument in the first place.
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@potatoengineer said in GIF or JIF?:
so it's a soft G in GIF.
What's your favorite birthday jift to jive?
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@perverted_vixen I say I would have expected you to pronounce it "yiff"...
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@boomzilla said in GIF or JIF?:
@potatoengineer said in GIF or JIF?:
so it's a soft G in GIF.
What's your favorite birthday jift to jive?
I usually go with a bottle of guin, or some guingher ale if they don't drink alcohol.
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I favorited this video a few years ago:
Edit: While not quite related, this is a great video too:
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@mzh said in GIF or JIF?:
@benjamin-hall Yeah, English is fun. Whenever I read people complaining about how this generation speaks terrible English, I ask if they prefer the original.
English has only become the popular lingua franca because burgerstan rules the world. It is possibly the least sane language that I know of, and I always respect people who are able to learn it as a second language.
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@pie_flavor said in GIF or JIF?:
English has only become the popular lingua franca because burgerstan rules the world. It is possibly the least sane language that I know of, and I always respect people who are able to learn it as a second language.
Eh, phonetically it's completely nonsensical, but in terms of grammar it's pretty simple compared to some others. You don't have to remember 45 different forms of verb conjugation.
And it uses an alphabet rather than ideograms, which we shouldn't take for granted. Unicode has 80,000 motherfucking CJK characters in it.
Still, I'd prefer using a proper Esperanto-like constructed language, but that seems unlikely to happen at this point.
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@anonymous234 said in GIF or JIF?:
Still, I'd prefer using a proper Esperanto-like constructed language, but that seems unlikely to happen at this point.
cc @ben_lubar
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I pronounce it like the Peanut Butter.
One guy I know (who has the nickname 'The most Annoying Person in the Universe') actually calls it by what the letters stand for: 'Graphics Interchange Format Image'. Just like he calls SQL 'Structured Query Language' and PNG 'Portable Network Graphics'.
Pretty much everyone hated talking to him, as he had an 'I'm a genius and you are insolent pleebs' attitude.
Last I heard (about three months ago) he was out of a job after getting fired by McDonalds.
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@brisingraerowing said in GIF or JIF?:
Last I heard (about three months ago) he was out of a job after getting fired by McDonalds.
Are you sure it wasn't McSpanky's?
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@el_heffe said in GIF or JIF?:
@boomzilla said in GIF or JIF?:
@pleegwat said in GIF or JIF?:
JIF makes me think of
the cleaning agent that got renamed to CIF decades agopeanut butter.
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@anonymous234 said in GIF or JIF?:
Eh, phonetically it's completely nonsensical, but in terms of grammar it's pretty simple compared to some others. You don't have to remember 45 different forms of verb conjugation.
Right; it's all contextual. So unless you are approaching or at fluency, you are likely to misunderstand what the other guy is saying. Whereas in another language where it's explicit, you just directly don't understand the word and then ask to clarify.
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@maciejasjmj said in GIF or JIF?:
@anonymous234 said in GIF or JIF?:
Still, I'd prefer using a proper Esperanto-like constructed language, but that seems unlikely to happen at this point.
cc @ben_lubar
gif is pronounced GEEF in lojban.
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@arantor said in GIF or JIF?:
It wasn't until I came here that I even realised it wasn't hard-G because not just me but everyone around me had it with a hard G.
Mind you, I'm the kid who in absence of anything else arrived at the pronunciation of 'integer' somehow being 'in-tee-grrr' rather than 'int-e-jer' as it really is, so I'm not sure I'm a good benchmark....
"in-vent-or-ee" That is all.
Edit: Also "de-briss".
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@atazhaia said in GIF or JIF?:
@perverted_vixen I say I would have expected you to pronounce it "yiff"...
You’re supposed to use the Spanish pronunciation, where G is pronounced as H.
Hence: HIV.
Because it is.
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@anonymous234 said in GIF or JIF?:
You don't have to remember 45 different forms of verb conjugation.
You get to remember thousands of different spellings and pronunciations exceptions1 instead.
1assuming there are even rules in the first place.
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On the topic of this topic I do pronounce GIF with a hard G. Although in Swedish it seems to be 50/50 if a G is to be pronounced like a G or a J regardless of position in the word and letters surrounding it. Which leads to things like the words "färga" (to color) and "färja" (a ferry/to ferry) being pronounced exactly the same.
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@da-doctah said in GIF or JIF?:
Pronounced JIF if you pronounce the first word jiraffic.
I've never really got this argument. The pronunciation of an acronym isn't related to the words that form it, otherwise SCUBA would be different in the U and A. It's like people claiming that maths is correct because it's not a single mathematic. You're right but for the wrong reasons
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@jaloopa on the one hand, if you treated SCUBA based on its words, it'd be more like 'scubba' due to the short U from underwater (though I don't get your point about the A being pronounced differently, maybe you pronounce apparatus differently to me but the short A sounds the same round these parts)
On the other hand, when making an acronym you go with what is easier say (and SCUBA is easier to say than SCUBBA, I think) - but in the case of GIF vs JIF, the pronunciation for English speakers without, say, a Spanish influence should be as easy either way.
The one thing that is often forgotten though - and it certainly came along a few years after GIF - is that there's actually a file format called JIF too. You've come across the later iterations of it, we all have, because JIF is what would eventually become the JPEG format as we know it. (The JIF format is apparently too hard to implement properly and JPEG is simplified down.)
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@arantor said in GIF or JIF?:
On the other hand, when making an acronym you go with what is easier say (and SCUBA is easier to say than SCUBBA, I think) - but in the case of GIF vs JIF, the pronunciation for English speakers without, say, a Spanish influence should be as easy either way.
That even split is probably what causes the arguments. When I first saw "GIF" written down, I read it as a hard G and it didn't occur to me until a lot later that other people might read it differently. I'm sure people who read a soft G felt the same.
And thus the religious wars do start
@arantor said in GIF or JIF?:
(though I don't get your point about the A being pronounced differently, maybe you pronounce apparatus differently to me but the short A sounds the same round these parts)
I pronounce the A in SCUBA more like "uh", or the "er" suffix in words like "rubber" (without an R sound on the end). Apparatus is like in "and" or "antidisestablishmentarianism"
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@jaloopa Now we've sorted out this religious war, how do we sort out the really serious ones, like emacs vs vim?
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@arantor said in GIF or JIF?:
how do we sort out the really serious ones, like emacs vs vim?
Clearly for that war we just need to kill everyone who thinks that a command line based text editor makes any sense at all, and move to proper graphical environments
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@jaloopa there are times it makes some vague sort of sense - like you're doing something on a server 'real quick' and you can edit it faster via SSH than you could pulling it into a real editor, but this certainly shouldn't be the norm.
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@jaloopa I have to work with CLI-based text editors, although it tends to be for simple stuff like editing configuration files, so I just use nano.
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@arantor said in GIF or JIF?:
@jaloopa Now we've sorted out this religious war, how do we sort out the really serious ones, like emacs vs vim?
VS Code.
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@pie_flavor haha rly?
Honestly, though, VS Code doesn't feel great to use. Grown up VS, I like, but VS Code has little to recommend it over Atom, which honestly feels inferior to Notepad++ or Sublime Text at this point.
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@arantor said in GIF or JIF?:
@pie_flavor haha rly?
Honestly, though, VS Code doesn't feel great to use. Grown up VS, I like, but VS Code has little to recommend it over Atom, which honestly feels inferior to Notepad++ or Sublime Text at this point.
I must not have been running the same Notepad++ that you are, because the one I remember doesn't actually do anything besides syntax highlighting, autoclosing, and autoindenting. No experience with Sublime. And I suppose I'm biased because I ran Atom on my old potatoputer and VSCode on my current competent computer, but if there were two things I remembered about Atom was that (a) it was slow and (b) it was slow, and VSCode isn't slow.
Actually, the primary reason I got VSCode was for Rust, since its Rust plugin was objectively the best environment across all the supported editors.
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@pie_flavor I've been using Notepad++'s autocomplete for at least a year if not nearer to two years. And that's before we start talking about plugins.
Though you're doing crazy moon language stuff, so whatever works, I guess :P
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@arantor said in GIF or JIF?:
Though you're doing crazy moon language stuff
You know you've been burned whan the PHP guy says that to you :P
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@arantor said in GIF or JIF?:
@pie_flavor I've been using Notepad++'s autocomplete for at least a year if not nearer to two years. And that's before we start talking about plugins.
That's the bit where it figures out that you wrote a variable name, and then decides that every time you type the first letter of that name, it should pressure you into autocompleting to that variable, and prioritize this over keywords, right? I'm talking about intellisense, not lexical analysis.
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@pie_flavor I never had a problem with its behaviour.
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@arantor said in GIF or JIF?:
@pie_flavor I never had a problem with its behaviour.
Many thousands of Eclipse users say the same, never having come face-to-face with IntelliJ in their lives. You don't even see them as bugs anymore, the same way fish don't have a word for water.
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@pie_flavor ah, so you're assuming I've never come across IntelliSense before, cute, but wrong. I was doing Visual Studio based dev before I went to PHP. Unless it's massively upped its game since 2002, it invariably just gets in my way.
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@arantor said in GIF or JIF?:
PHP
*visibly suppresses autistic screeching*
But yeah, intellisense is useful in all scenarios. It'll give you argument count, it would give you argument type if it was a language where it isn't always 'strint', it shows inline documentation, etc.
Now I'm curious; why not just use PhpStorm? From what I hear, it actually decreases PHP-induced aneurysm cases.
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@pie_flavor it was so useful I turned it off while writing Visual Basic.
As for why I don't use PhpStorm - how about because I don't want IntelliSense because it isn't the god's gift of magicalness to me...?
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@arantor said in GIF or JIF?:
@pie_flavor it was so useful I turned it off while writing Visual Basic.
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@pie_flavor Yup, I used to write Visual Basic during the VB6 era. Then I moved into web stuff, doing VBS in what might loosely be called ASP Classic - and then to PHP. And I've never gone back. I wonder why that is.