Enlightened
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@flabdablet said in Enlightened:
@Jaloopa said in Enlightened:
did the look of XP break applications written for 95?
It broke a few that made incorrect assumptions about the overall size of the window vs. the size of the content region. Can't remember what they were, but I do remember being slightly annoyed more than once by clipped-in-half lines of text. Turning the XP theme off always fixed it though.
Yep. And the key difference is, I believe, that the apps themselves were using the APIs incorrectly, using undocumented APIs, or otherwise breaking the contract or not fulfilling it. Whereas in my understanding the GTK API simply changes and breaks all correctly written applications.
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@marczellm said in Enlightened:
breaks all correctly written applications
Can't be true. The apps were using GTK and that's never a correct decision.
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To add to the story of "Those guys don't know what they're doing."
Two weeks ago I received an email:
Monday at the latest you'll receive an email with details on how to send back the Note 7
The wednesday after that, I wrote them an email:
Guys, where's the email you promised me 2 days ago?
Thursday I did indeed receive the email with the instructions. Yesterday (i.e. 1 week later) I received confirmation that they have received the Note 7 and that my money is on its way back to me.
Today I'm receiving an email:
Totes sorry for not having sent the instructions email yet. You'll receive it in the next few days.
I think I'll write the guy that it's well-meant but maybe he simply shouldn't bother.
Oh, and this email contains this sentence in bold:
We'd like you to rate your customer experience - in order to do so, simply click on the link at the end of this email. Your opinion is very important to us!
There's no such link anywhere.
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@kt_ said in Enlightened:
@aliceif said in Enlightened:
There's also elementary OS. They're trying to bring design consistency into Linux. They use GTK and everything is GTK there.Based on Ubuntu LTS.
Also
and
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@Rhywden said in Enlightened:
We'd like you to rate your customer experience - in order to do so, simply click on the link at the end of this email. Your opinion is very important to us!
Why is it that companies with terrible, dysfunctional websites or customer support seem to be the ones most obsessed with customer polls and reviews? It's weird.
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@kt_ said in Enlightened:
@flabdablet said in Enlightened:
@kt_ said in Enlightened:
Cool kids simply use GNOME or KDE or Unity, whatever got installed by default
That's true. The cool kids have never been the smart ones.
THAT'S LIES THAT'S ALL LIES WHY ARE YOU LYING STOP LYING YOU LIE ALL THE TIME YOU LYING PIECE OF SHIT!!!!1111!!!!11111!!!!
a ?
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@anonymous234 said in Enlightened:
Why is it that companies with terrible, dysfunctional websites or customer support seem to be the ones most obsessed with customer polls and reviews? It's weird.
Because they're the ones where their terrible service has been noted and management have mandated surveys to track the service quality. Because tracking things is how you improve them
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@Jaloopa said in Enlightened:
tracking things is how you improve them
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@anonymous234 said in Enlightened:
Why is it that companies with terrible, dysfunctional websites or customer support seem to be the ones most obsessed with customer polls and reviews? It's weird.
Because they are the ones who have lots of unhappy customers and don't understand why?
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@marczellm said in Enlightened:
Holy shit, they actually did it. I remember when they were recruiting people for this. And I also remember what unnameable disaster in progress this was.
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@NeighborhoodButcher said in Enlightened:
Holy shit, they actually did it. I remember when they were recruiting people for this.
What is it, exactly? Does it have anything to do with Enlightenment? It's not clear to me from the docs.
Tizen .NET consists of the following main components:
- .NET Core
- Xamarin.Forms as a UI framework
Xamarin.Forms is a cross-platform UI toolkit that allows you to efficiently create native user interface layouts that can be shared across iOS, Android, Windows Phone, and Universal Windows Platform applications. Tizen .NET supports 99% of Xamarin.Forms. - Tizen platform-specific API
Tizen .NET supports C# APIs, which expose the Tizen native framework APIs features, such as Application, Connectivity, Multimedia, Location, and System. The C# APIs provide support for 60% of Tizen Mobile APIs.
@NeighborhoodButcher said in Enlightened:
And I also remember what unnameable disaster in progress this was.
Please tell us more. I for one am longing for more WTFs.
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Mmm if they manage to get the devs to work with .NET and Xamarin.Forms instead of C with Enlightning then they might have a chance. But I have no idea how X.Forms would interface with EL.
And if MS has lost its hopes with Windows Phone I don't see Samsung doing any better bringing a new OS on smartphones. Maybe on TVs. Perhaps. Android is everywhere.
Anyway, I too would love to hear more WhatTheClusterFucks.
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@marczellm said in Enlightened:
@NeighborhoodButcher said in Enlightened:
Holy shit, they actually did it. I remember when they were recruiting people for this.
What is it, exactly? Does it have anything to do with Enlightenment? It's not clear to me from the docs.
Tizen .NET consists of the following main components:
- .NET Core
- Xamarin.Forms as a UI framework
Xamarin.Forms is a cross-platform UI toolkit that allows you to efficiently create native user interface layouts that can be shared across iOS, Android, Windows Phone, and Universal Windows Platform applications. Tizen .NET supports 99% of Xamarin.Forms. - Tizen platform-specific API
Tizen .NET supports C# APIs, which expose the Tizen native framework APIs features, such as Application, Connectivity, Multimedia, Location, and System. The C# APIs provide support for 60% of Tizen Mobile APIs.
@NeighborhoodButcher said in Enlightened:
And I also remember what unnameable disaster in progress this was.
Please tell us more. I for one am longing for more WTFs.
There was a project to create C# facade for EFL underneath, because no sane person would touch that shit otherwise. If this is it, C# people will finally enjoy all the goodies of old-style C wrapped in a nice, albeit stinking, paper. Good luck debugging why your Xamarin app wants to spank you.
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@NeighborhoodButcher so the Xamarin.Forms API is translated to EFL?
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@marczellm said in Enlightened:
@NeighborhoodButcher so the Xamarin.Forms API is translated to EFL?
Unless a miracle happened, everything in Tizen is at some point translated to EFL.
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@asdf said in Enlightened:
> My question is, does Evas_Object come even close to giving you the features QObject does?
Yes, it does. It also provide ABI stability without additional effort. For a longer answer there is kind of a doc there : https://build.enlightenment.org/job/nightly_efl_gcc_x86_64/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/doc/html/Eo_Tutorial.html .
It's been a while since I last visited this topic and I couldn't sleep, so I decided to read it again. Clicked the link in this post and was greeted with:
...totally worth it.This thread needed a necro, so I decided to visit that link again to check whether the error message still exists. This is the content:
Not sure whether that epic CSS fail is better or worse, but at least it's not trying to spank me anymore.
Edit: Seems to be a CSP fail, not a CSS fail. Still funny.
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So that's how classes in C look like.
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@NeighborhoodButcher pfff. Wait until you see classes in BAT scripts!
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@asdf said in Enlightened:
but at least it's not trying to spank me anymore.
And then the murders began.
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@asdf said in Enlightened:
but at least it's not trying to spank me anymore.
And then the boobs came out.
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"It may be the worst code I've ever seen," he told Motherboard in advance of a talk about his research that he is scheduled to deliver at Kaspersky Lab's Security Analyst Summit on the island of St. Maarten on Monday. "Everything you can do wrong there, they do it. You can see that nobody with any understanding of security looked at this code or wrote it. It's like taking an undergraduate and letting him program your software."
Is anyone surprised?
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@dkf said in Enlightened:
I guess we could say it Tizen't ready for prime time yet.
:throwyourselfout:
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@Rhywden So you're saying that a C-based platform which discards C's already not-great type system and replaces it with a gazillion typedefs for "void *" contains multiple security vulnerabilities.
Say it ain't so, Joe.
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@gwowen said in Enlightened:
So you're saying that a C-based platform which discards C's already not-great type system and replaces it with a gazillion typedefs for "void *" contains multiple security vulnerabilities.
That's not necessarily a problem, with a little discipline, not that that means that they get it right themselves of course. But they also use
strcpy()
and that has no place in a modern codebase, or not without very careful auditing.
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@dkf said in Enlightened:
not without very careful auditing
If I've read this thread right, there is very careful auditing. If it was written by a Korean it passes, otherwise it gets sent off to be written by a Korean
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@dkf said in Enlightened:
That's not necessarily a problem, with a little discipline
Well, I kinda agree, but the problem is that in reality that "little discipline"
i) comes on top of all the other discipline that's needed, which is often more discipline than your least experienced programmers can reasonably deal with.
ii) means that the compiler can't really check anything, so your code reviews have to check the types for every function call.Making literally everything just a bit harder to check for correctness is almost always a freaking terrible idea. Even if you do it right - and your rigorous code reviews catch everything that a compiler would catch in a strongly typed environment, you've still made a f***load of work for yourself.
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@Rhywden said in Enlightened:
And this thing is called "Enlightened"?
Must be some kind of Brave New World reference I'm not getting.no, that's how enlightenment has been working since ever, since the Buddha times - you need to get enlightened to become at peace with the world.
here, you need to get enlightened to become at peace with how the Enlightened ...whateveritis... works.
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It may be the worst code I've ever seen.
That's what I've been saying each time I saw what the Koreans have vomited.
It's like taking an undergraduate and letting him program your software.
Fun fact: that's what they actually have been doing since ever (and keep doing now).
You can update a Tizen system with any malicious code you want
Fun fact: any webpage can take over your TV because of full hardware API exposure. And get your Samsung login+password the same way.
Many of them are the kind of mistakes programmers were making twenty years ago, indicating that Samsung lacks basic code development and review practices to prevent and catch such flaws.
This guy just keeps repeating my words from my career there.
Not so fun fact: I remember removing (yes - removing) some security features myself, under an order from some Korean idiot.
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I'm guessing that the reason this happened is either Samsung's execs providing gainful employment to their useless sons or Samsung's policy of corporate jingoism biting them in the ass as there are simply not enough good Korean programmers available to support their infrastructure. Or greed. It's also helpful to remember that Samsung in Korea is basically a Shadowrun-style megacorp (look up "chaebol", all they're missing is formal extraterritoriality) and can therefore do whatever they want.
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@bugmenot said in Enlightened:
Korea is basically a Shadowrun-style megacorp (look up "chaebol", all they're missing is formal extraterritoriality)
They're also missing a Great Dragon. Then again, Samsung being run by Lofwyr would explain a bit.
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@Rhywden's dumbbox said in Enlightened:
40 unknown zero-day vulnerabilities
Department of Redundancy Department strikes again.
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As an example how Samsung treats security, we can take Smack (google it). This was supposed to be the solution to all security problems - each app would have a limited access to well-defined resources. The reality? Korean geniuses turned off Smack for development, and other Korean geniuses built the system with total disregard for it. When it got turned on, half of the system crashed because of permission problems. I'll let you guess how this was handled:
- People fixed their apps.
- Smack was put into "non-enforcing" mode where it only logged security problems and allowed everything.
Anyone interested in part 2 of the Smack Saga aka. The Failure of Spanking into Submission?
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@NeighborhoodButcher said in Enlightened:
Anyone interested in part 2 of the Smack Saga aka. The Failure of Spanking into Submission?
This sounds like
first pagematerial for its own thread
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@Rhywden IIRC it's only the one AAA that's run by a dragon. Granted, when that dragon is fucking Lofwyr that's enough for all of them.
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@gwowen said in Enlightened:
means that the compiler can't really check anything
There's a limit to what can be checked, for sure, but some patterns work better than others. (For example, passing in a pointer that only ever gets used by handing it back to functions that you also provide, and is never deconstructed elsewhere.) If you're Korean, it sounds like you don't stick to the sensible patterns…
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@dkf I don't think it's all Koreans who program like that, just the ones that work for Samsung.
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@NeighborhoodButcher said in Enlightened:
Anyone interested in part 2 of the Smack Saga aka. The Failure of Spanking into Submission?
We're all into Smack Talk round here…
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@RaceProUK Not all, but when a very large employer is basing their hiring decisions on jingoism and not ability, the incentive to work at being good is reduced. And make no mistake, it really does take effort to become properly skilled at programming. Everyone here knows that.
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Some choice comments from the Tizen community forum:
https://samsung.tizenforum.com/news/zero-day-vulnerability-!/
Mcaffe security virus defination gets updated on 26 march 2017. This happened after very long time. This may save us from these vulnereblity ! 😕
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@Greybeard
The "Home" page of the forum is even better. Where you'd expect some kind of summary or the first few words of the post, it shows the email address of the user instead, which probably shouldn't even be public:Even if that's intentional: WTF? Who thought this would be a good idea?
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@asdf There's a tag cloud on desktop. Made me wonder if it was Community Server.
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@Greybeard said in Enlightened:
Some choice comments from the Tizen community forum:
And then there's a TDWTF soul if ever there was one, complaining about the forum in the zero day topic:
By the way,
What is that RSS feed thingie next to search option? It is stupid.Search is not working right now! Some ultimate disaster with Community website....
Entire website looks scre*d up.
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By the way, I think we should stop blaming just Samsung for this.