Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon
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@Polygeekery That's something I either missed or have forgotten.
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@GOG said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
It seems to me that broke Blakey.
To me it seems that I broke Blakey. Me and a few other forum members. I don't feel bad for it but I do feel sad that he left. And I'm not comfortable talking more about it behind Blakey's back.
Edit: you can say I put Blakey and levicki in similar situations and levicki handled it a lot better.
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@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
I'm not comfortable talking more about it behind Blakey's back.
Yeah, you're right.
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@GOG you and @Gąska are welcome to your opinion but I guarantee that blakey is reading every post on the subject and nothing is preventing him from weighing in except himself. So it's hardly discussing it behind his back. It's more like discussing it in front of him while he is giving you the silent treatment.
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@GOG said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
Was Blakey a bully? That wasn't the impression I had before I'd gotten distracted and wandered off for a couple of years.
I recall an incident when he was bullying those previously mentioned users who decided to have a "forum romance." The people he was bullying did react in more ways than flagging the problematic posts, but, as I recall, he was the instigator.
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@topspin said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
Client side for canonicalizing the input (and never letting the server see the actual password) and server for obvious security reasons.
Technically, the hash sent over the wire is the password then (i.e., it's the real security token), not the thing that the user entered.
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@Polygeekery said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@GOG you and @Gąska are welcome to your opinion but I guarantee that blakey is reading every post on the subject and nothing is preventing him from weighing in except himself. So it's hardly discussing it behind his back. It's more like discussing it in front of him while he is giving you the silent treatment.
I'm less worried about him and more about not looking like a total asshole to other forum members. But I understand why it might not be your concern.
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@abarker said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@GOG said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
Was Blakey a bully? That wasn't the impression I had before I'd gotten distracted and wandered off for a couple of years.
I recall an incident when he was bullying those previously mentioned users who decided to have a "forum romance." The people he was bullying did react in more ways than flagging the problematic posts, but, as I recall, he was the instigator.
Not to mention shaming everyone who decided to talk about programming languages for more than 4 posts at a time for being such nerds and using forum for things he doesn't personally enjoy. Bullying comes in many forms.
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@Gąska I am shocked, shocked to find nerds in this establishment!
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@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
Not to mention shaming everyone who decided to talk about programming languages for more than 4 posts at a time for being such nerds and using forum for things he doesn't personally enjoy.
He tried that with me a few times. I didn't care then, and still don't. I like talking about very nerd-ish stuff.
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I was in the forums waaaay back, I had this user and another that I've forgotten the login for and the email is not one I have access to, or have had access to in a decade or so. I stopped logging in and commenting back then, and the reason was that the community went from being a cool place with helpful people to a complete cesspit of screaming matches about bullshit.
Sort of what happened with @leivicki and @Gąska but way, way, waaaay worse.It wasn't that I felt unwelcome, but rather that everything that had been interesting had just gotten drowned out.
Currently, I find the forums perfectly acceptable and I even hang out in that horrible garage place. And since the most epic ragequitter, I actually think the forums improved a fair bit, because the pages long rants back and forth is pretty much gone.
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@Carnage said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
because the pages long rants back and forth is pretty much gone.
Having been in a few of those, they are only interesting (and even that is stretching it) to the people participating. I generally skipped the ones where others were doing it. I don't mind them from time to time, but they can stifle threads.
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@Dragoon said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Carnage said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
because the pages long rants back and forth is pretty much gone.
Having been in a few of those, they are only interesting (and even that is stretching it) to the people participating. I generally skipped the ones where others were doing it. I don't mind them from time to time, but they can stifle threads.
Yeah, it gets tiresome when the same handful of people do it in every thread and every topic is used as a proxy for screaming at each other.
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@Dragoon said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Carnage said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
because the pages long rants back and forth is pretty much gone.
Having been in a few of those, they are only interesting (and even that is stretching it) to the people participating.
The worst is when people start trying to pull apart what others write at the sub-phrase level, rather than actually engaging with the point. Hate those, especially when two people decide to do it to each other. It's like watching two beloved relatives gutting each other in a knife fight, except everyone's instead armed with a rubber chicken and the whole thing is just sad and pathetic.
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@dkf said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Dragoon said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Carnage said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
because the pages long rants back and forth is pretty much gone.
Having been in a few of those, they are only interesting (and even that is stretching it) to the people participating.
The worst is when people start trying to pull apart what others write at the sub-phrase level, rather than actually engaging with the point. Hate those, especially when two people decide to do it to each other. It's like watching two beloved relatives gutting each other in a knife fight, except everyone's instead armed with a rubber chicken and the whole thing is just sad and pathetic.
Amen to this. Line by line quotes and inline responses are something I just scroll past. So much context and meaning is lost so people can pick at words and play the bad spirited version of "I'm more than you are" (a classic forum favorite).
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@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@error IRC? What else, a Usenet group?
reddit.com/r/thedailywtf
Edit: d, of course.
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@dkf as the main offender and basically the trope namer - the reason I do it is because a single post within an argument usually contains 5-6 different "the points", all equally important. I can see how that might be annoying to a bystander, but I really don't see how it's possible to have an actual discussion otherwise. The only alternative is either to have all your responses to all "the points" mixed together in one big mess, or to ignore 80% of what the other person says, which isn't nice.
Edit: I think these are the fastest 3 upvotes I've ever received. And that's without the free one! Thanks!
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@Polygeekery said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
You really don't.
You think that you do, but the collateral damage on making that happen would be immeasurable.It could rules in a category if needed
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the reason I do it is because a single post within an argument usually contains 5-6 different "the points", all equally important.
Yes, that is generally what has started mine as well. This melds very nicely with Brandolini’s law to create very large posts, very quickly.
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@Dragoon said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
Brandolini’s law
TIL the name for this
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Some of these posts are shedding a little light on why everybody seemed to gang up on me about typing micromanagement. You're still wrong, of course, but if you thought I was going to go off the deep end and level the city, the reaction is somewhat understandable.
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@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
to ignore 80% of what the other person says
I tend to think in terms of trying to address the central point of their post, or if I have to really address several, to try to include the main point clearly among that or very clearly not. Mostly I prefer to only really address one thing at a time as it makes it clearer what I'm talking about.
Or I use the post as a starting point for a good old digression that I hope will educate or entertain.
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@dkf said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
Mostly I prefer to only really address one thing at a time as it makes it clearer what I'm talking about.
Yeah, I've noticed. It's your style, I understand that. But very often - and it's not a theoretical, I'm actually commenting on your past posts - you lose a looooooooooooooot of nuance of the topic at hand.
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@Zenith said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
You're still wrong, of course
That's the spirit!
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@JBert said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Zenith said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
You're still wrong, of course
That's the spirit!
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@Carnage said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
I was in the forums waaaay back, I had this user and another that I've forgotten the login for and the email is not one I have access to, or have had access to in a decade or so. I stopped logging in and commenting back then, and the reason was that the community went from being a cool place with helpful people to a complete cesspit of screaming matches about bullshit.
Sort of what happened with @leivicki and @Gąska but way, way, waaaay worse.It wasn't that I felt unwelcome, but rather that everything that had been interesting had just gotten drowned out.
Currently, I find the forums perfectly acceptable and I even hang out in that horrible garage place. And since the most epic ragequitter, I actually think the forums improved a fair bit, because the pages long rants back and forth is pretty much gone.You mean the time of morbiuswilters and MPS?
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@topspin said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Carnage said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
I was in the forums waaaay back, I had this user and another that I've forgotten the login for and the email is not one I have access to, or have had access to in a decade or so. I stopped logging in and commenting back then, and the reason was that the community went from being a cool place with helpful people to a complete cesspit of screaming matches about bullshit.
Sort of what happened with @leivicki and @Gąska but way, way, waaaay worse.It wasn't that I felt unwelcome, but rather that everything that had been interesting had just gotten drowned out.
Currently, I find the forums perfectly acceptable and I even hang out in that horrible garage place. And since the most epic ragequitter, I actually think the forums improved a fair bit, because the pages long rants back and forth is pretty much gone.You mean the time of morbiuswilters and MPS?
Yeah, and a few others. It's been too long to remember the specific users.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@dkf said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Dragoon said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Carnage said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
because the pages long rants back and forth is pretty much gone.
Having been in a few of those, they are only interesting (and even that is stretching it) to the people participating.
The worst is when people start trying to pull apart what others write at the sub-phrase level, rather than actually engaging with the point. Hate those, especially when two people decide to do it to each other. It's like watching two beloved relatives gutting each other in a knife fight, except everyone's instead armed with a rubber chicken and the whole thing is just sad and pathetic.
Amen to this. Line by line quotes and inline responses are something I just scroll past. So much context and meaning is lost so people can pick at words and play the bad spirited version of "I'm more than you are" (a classic forum favorite).
It is partly inspired by "where have I said that, quote me on this!" Though I do agree with the sentiment.
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@topspin said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Benjamin-Hall said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@dkf said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Dragoon said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Carnage said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
because the pages long rants back and forth is pretty much gone.
Having been in a few of those, they are only interesting (and even that is stretching it) to the people participating.
The worst is when people start trying to pull apart what others write at the sub-phrase level, rather than actually engaging with the point. Hate those, especially when two people decide to do it to each other. It's like watching two beloved relatives gutting each other in a knife fight, except everyone's instead armed with a rubber chicken and the whole thing is just sad and pathetic.
Amen to this. Line by line quotes and inline responses are something I just scroll past. So much context and meaning is lost so people can pick at words and play the bad spirited version of "I'm more than you are" (a classic forum favorite).
It is partly inspired by "where have I said that, quote me on this!" Though I do agree with the sentiment.
Demanding exact quotes (as opposed to "what did I write to make you think that?") is another form of hostile, bad-spirited (not bad faith, just negative-attitude) argumentation IMO.
It comes down to a lack of charity toward other people's ideas and a tendency to take attacks on ideas as attacks on the person stating the idea.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
Demanding exact quotes (as opposed to "what did I write to make you think that?")
I'll try to remember that alternative phrasing. Seems more likely to advance the conversation.
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@topspin said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Benjamin-Hall said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
Demanding exact quotes (as opposed to "what did I write to make you think that?")
I'll try to remember that alternative phrasing. Seems more likely to advance the conversation.
Yeah, getting it across without sounding sarcastic is the hard part. Especially for me. But a genuine "wait...that's not what I meant, can you help me see where it came across that way?" question defuses a lot of the issue I've found.
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@topspin said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Benjamin-Hall said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@dkf said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Dragoon said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Carnage said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
because the pages long rants back and forth is pretty much gone.
Having been in a few of those, they are only interesting (and even that is stretching it) to the people participating.
The worst is when people start trying to pull apart what others write at the sub-phrase level, rather than actually engaging with the point. Hate those, especially when two people decide to do it to each other. It's like watching two beloved relatives gutting each other in a knife fight, except everyone's instead armed with a rubber chicken and the whole thing is just sad and pathetic.
Amen to this. Line by line quotes and inline responses are something I just scroll past. So much context and meaning is lost so people can pick at words and play the bad spirited version of "I'm more than you are" (a classic forum favorite).
It is partly inspired by "where have I said that, quote me on this!" Though I do agree with the sentiment.
Honestly, I don't think I ever thought of that. I do it for my own convenienve, and to indicate to the person I'm replying to what I'm talking about without having to write "you said this and this, I disagree because..." every other sentence.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@topspin said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Benjamin-Hall said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@dkf said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Dragoon said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Carnage said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
because the pages long rants back and forth is pretty much gone.
Having been in a few of those, they are only interesting (and even that is stretching it) to the people participating.
The worst is when people start trying to pull apart what others write at the sub-phrase level, rather than actually engaging with the point. Hate those, especially when two people decide to do it to each other. It's like watching two beloved relatives gutting each other in a knife fight, except everyone's instead armed with a rubber chicken and the whole thing is just sad and pathetic.
Amen to this. Line by line quotes and inline responses are something I just scroll past. So much context and meaning is lost so people can pick at words and play the bad spirited version of "I'm more than you are" (a classic forum favorite).
It is partly inspired by "where have I said that, quote me on this!" Though I do agree with the sentiment.
Demanding exact quotes (as opposed to "what did I write to make you think that?") is another form of hostile, bad-spirited (not bad faith, just negative-attitude) argumentation IMO.
On the other side, you have shoulder aliens. When I say "quote me", it's just a less hardline version of "I never said anything like that and you're lying that I did" that allows a minimal level of doubt that maybe I don't remember things as well as I think I do. I wish it happened less often than it does, but it's really, really hard to convince people that reality is different from what they remember. Making people try to find - and fail to find - the quote has the highest success rate of everything I tried (but still very low).
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@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
I'm less worried about him and more about not looking like a total asshole to other forum members. But I understand why it might not be your concern.
#MeToo
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@sockpuppet7 said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Polygeekery said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
You really don't.
You think that you do, but the collateral damage on making that happen would be immeasurable.It could rules in a category if needed
I think you accidentally a word, but I don't have a fucking clue what that word might be, so it may be words. Hell, it might be half a paragraph.
Do you want to take a Mulligan and try again?
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@Polygeekery it could be a category with different rules that would be aceptable to @blakeyrat. An experiment, like the salon
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@sockpuppet7 we already have it. It's called Discord.
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@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
To me it seems that I broke Blakey. Me and a few other forum members.
Whoever made it so that all of his posts' text was green probably lit the final fuse.
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@TwelveBaud how do I not remember that part? I was actively involved in his last argument here!
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@TwelveBaud said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
To me it seems that I broke Blakey. Me and a few other forum members.
Whoever made it so that all of his posts' text was green probably lit the final fuse.
The green posts weren't the most recent quit though, were they?
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@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@TwelveBaud how do I not remember that part? I was actively involved in his last argument here!
Are you sure? According to his post list I was the last he got really pissed at.
Maybe I should have explicitly apologized in that post, like I did to Ben, but I felt more like defending it since he has been randomly lashing out at people much more.