Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon
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As discussed in the Administration/Moderation Changes & New Admin Team Nominations topic, I've accepted 13 members as nominees for thee new administration team: boomzilla, Tsaukpaetra, sloosecannon, error, lolwhat, Mason_Wheeler, Atazhaia, Carnage, Zecc, TimeBandit, abarker, loopback0, PleegWat
Nominations are still open, so if I missed anyone, or if there's anyone you'd like to nominate (specially yourself), please do so by replying or contacting me in private. Don't be shy.
We will soon begin discussions in a private area, the Sekret nomination talks. The ideal scenario will be that we come out of this with
- absolutely no "drama" in the discussions
- me understanding the community better, in particular the challenges that lead to where we are today
- changes we'll make immediately and policies going forward that will implement the community guidelines I wrote in the last post
- a team of 3 administrators who I will trust to take over
- clear roles and responsibilities, including how content moderation will work
- discussions/debate among the nominees to remain private
- hiatus on nominees publicly discussing policies until there's a clear policy on how administrators/moderators should have such discussions with the community at large
- mutual support of all of the above, from all nominees
This is a tall order, but I'm confident that we will fix what's broken, and work to rebuild/grow the community on what it was originally established to do.
I don't know how long this will take, nor do I know when or what I'll update in the mean time, maybe in a week or so. Until then, please remember the current content policy:
For the time being, I’m the sole administrator/moderator/dictator. And to warn you, I’m not very good at this. At all. I won’t do a good job of following any of the guidelines I just outlined. I act arbitrarily and capriciously. I won’t define what “appropriate” means to me, nor will I tell you what will happen if you act inappropriately. Even I don’t know, because it will depend on my mood and calorie intake at the time.
And as always, you can directly contact me (see my profile for contact instructions) if you have any thoughts or concerns you want to share publicly.
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@apapadimoulis
It's a missed opportunity for a TV format ...13 entered the thread but only 3 will continue!
Cast your vote for your favourite during the seasons finale today!
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@Luhmann said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@apapadimoulis
It's a missed opportunity for a TV format ...13 entered the thread but only 3 will continue!
Cast your vote for your favourite during the seasons finale today!Ha! I was originally thinking doing an elimination-based process, but if we get a group of folks who agree to mutually support me and the decisions I make in these matters, then we'll come out with a much better community.
I will not demand fealty to Windows™ or C#, however. But want a core group who supports the guidelines I wrote and the plan to implement them, even if they don't agree with all the details. I may not even agree with all the details, but so goes delegation. We need to be aligned on the goal of a better community, under those guidelines.
For now, the only way to be eliminated from accepted nominees group is to quit now (I've asked everyone to confirm participation), or to break the nomination process rules. And the current sole administrator/moderator/dictator probably won't deal with the latter very fairly, at all.
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@apapadimoulis said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
the Sekret nomination talks.
The correct spelling is "sekretne".
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@Gąska
But only the chosen ones are supposed to know that!
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@apapadimoulis said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
We will soon begin discussions in a private area, the Sekret nomination talks.
And now it's not a sekret anymore!
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@apapadimoulis said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
We will soon begin discussions in a private area, the Sekret nomination talks.
And now it's not a sekret anymore!
Maybe it should be called "Fight Club"?
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@dcon
As long as you don't mention the war
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@Luhmann is it some new change?
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@Gąska There is no war in Sekret Nomination Sing Se!
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
There is no war in Sekret Nomination Sing Se!
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@Mason_Wheeler It's as sekret as the sekret pm club
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I, for one, welcome our C# and Windows overlords!
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Holy macaroni. I've been inactive for a few days and apparently I missed a full forumcalypse.
@apapadimoulis said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
This is a tall order, but I'm confident that we will fix what's broken, and work to rebuild/grow the community on what it was originally established to do.
That sounds like a good idea. Maybe it was already mentioned in the other thread (I've only skimmed it, it's impossible to read it all), but as a long-time lurker I would humbly request that the thoughts of people who unfortunately left this forum over the years should be taken into account, if possible. While there were always trolls, I think this forum used to be more fun and more on-topic a few years ago. Now the side bar, formerly the centerpiece of the forum, is almost dead apart from a few semi-interesting megathreads and that's really sad.
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BTW, I've noticed that the special categories were also called into question in the other thread. Two things I haven't seen mentioned there, since the discussion mostly focused on the garage and the salon:
- Lounge: It's probably a good idea in general, but it might contribute to the lack of activity in the side bar.
- NSFW content: I think it needs its own category - maybe as a sub-category of the Lounge - and should be banned from otherwise SFW threads. Reading random NSFW flirting between forum members in completely unrelated threads, especially at work, makes me quite uncomfortable. And if you're in a very strict workplace, that category would be easy to block entirely.
(Edited to remove my opinion on the garage and the salon because it most likely doesn't add to the discussion.)
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@dfdub said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
Lounge: It's probably a good idea in general, but it might contribute to the lack of activity in the side bar.
I'm not entirely sure. It may be a factor, but it was initially picked up by people who were uncomfortable putting their work gripes where google could find them.
The status thread may be a factor here as well. The threshold to post day-to-day gripes is way lower in the status thread than in the sidebar, and if you've been keeping the members up to date in the status thread that disincentivises re-posting in a sidebar topic. And of course people may have forgotten to a degree that the sidebar exists at all.
@dfdub said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
NSFW content: I think it needs its own category - maybe as a sub-category of the Lounge - and should be banned from otherwise SFW threads. Reading random NSFW flirting between forum members in completely unrelated threads, especially at work, makes me quite uncomfortable. And if you're in a very strict workplace, that category would be easy to block entirely.
Random flirting is flavour and leak, and I don't think a category would change that. I doubt an NSFW Status thread would get much traction either. But there may be value in splitting it from the lounge. Should it be in the category list though? The garage is, even if you're not a trolleybus mechanic.
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@dfdub said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
- Lounge: It's probably a good idea in general, but it might contribute to the lack of activity in the side bar.
It's either that or not sharing any stories with potentially personally identifiable details at all. And I find these the most interesting. And it's not like Lounge is some sekret klub that no outsiders are allowed into - but I'd say it needs to be advertised better. Much better.
- NSFW content
I don't think we've ever had a problem with that despite lack of regulations. NSFW threads are tagged as such, and elsewhere everyone takes care to put it in <details> tag. Now, the NSFL content...
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@PleegWat said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
Should it be in the category list though? The garage is, even if you're not a trolleybus mechanic.
Good question. You'd have to ask someone whose boss would actually care so much that the thread titles themselves might be too much.
Personally, I'm mostly bothered by the leaks. I get that they will always occasionally happen until a moderator steps in, but I'd like to see a rule against them that is actually being enforced. The less mental furry porn suddenly appears on my monitor at work, the better.
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@PleegWat said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
I doubt an NSFW Status thread would get much traction either. But there may be value in splitting it from the lounge. Should it be in the category list though? The garage is, even if you're not a trolleybus mechanic.
It might be worth adding as requiring an extra group to see it in the category list. TL3_NSFW or something.
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@dfdub said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
The less mental furry porn suddenly appears on my monitor
at workever, the better.Not that there's anything wrong with it. Just not my cup of tea. Of which the Long Island variety is probably my favorite.
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@boomzilla said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
Not that there's anything wrong with it.
Just in case someone misinterpreted my post: I fully agree with what @boomzilla just said.
I also don't mind reading that stuff when I voluntarily enter a NSFW thread, I just want it separate from the SFW threads so that I can avoid it during the day.
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@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
It's either that or not sharing any stories with potentially personally identifiable details at all.
I don't think it's that black or white. While I see the value of the Lounge in general, a lot of the tales in there could be anonymized and shared publicly.
My main concern is that the forum is getting less and less appealing to newcomers. What they see in the public topic list are mostly megathreads full of inside jokes and political flamewars, no quality content that is actually related to IT and relatable. I really, really miss the side bar of past times.
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@dfdub said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
I also don't mind reading that stuff when I'm prepared for it, I just want it separate from the SFW threads so that I can avoid it during the day.
And keep us from accidentally hitting suspicious image hosts via the work proxy. Though I think most people who post images rehost them here.
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@dfdub said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
I don't think it's that black or white. While I see the value of the Lounge in general, a lot of the tales in there could be anonymized and shared publicly.
, I'm afraid. And that might just be another reason to board up the lounge.
@dfdub said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
My main concern is that the forum is getting less and less appealing to newcomers. What they see in the public topic list are mostly megathreads and political flamewars, no quality content that is actually related to IT and relatable. I really, really miss the side bar of past times.
And remember the sidebar is visible on the main site too - decent content there has the potential to draw new people in.
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@dfdub said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
It's either that or not sharing any stories with potentially personally identifiable details at all.
I don't think it's that black or white.
It is for me and I guess some other people too.
While I see the value of the Lounge in general, a lot of the tales in there could be anonymized and shared publicly.
But the non- (well, less-)anonymized version reads better. Definitely the @Polygeekery's rants wouldn't be the same. And we would have no Candidate's Mettle at all.
My main concern is that the forum is getting less and less appealing to newcomers.
Side Bar still gets shit ton of activity. Internet of Shit, the many Windows rants, WTF Bites, a new thread once a week or two for particularly egregious stuff that's happening, and an occasional high-effort story. Even if I completely ignored General and Garage, I'd still find a lot to read here.
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@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
elsewhere everyone takes care to put it in
tag.Even if you never open the <details> tag, the content is still sent through whatever work proxies may exist and into your browser's cache. That alone can be a problem, even if you never view it.
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@HardwareGeek oh. I never thought of that. I think the real solution is to bother @julianlam for a real spoiler functionality.
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@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@HardwareGeek oh. I never thought of that. I think the real solution is to bother @julianlam for a real spoiler functionality.
Most other boards spoiler tags are clientside as well.
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@dfdub said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
While I see the value of the Lounge in general, a lot of the tales in there could be anonymized and shared publicly.
Could be but wouldn't be.
No Lounge would just mean some content wouldn't get posted.
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@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
My main concern is that the forum is getting less and less appealing to newcomers.
Side Bar still gets shit ton of activity. Internet of Shit, the many Windows rants, WTF Bites, a new thread once a week or two for particularly egregious stuff that's happening, and an occasional high-effort story. Even if I completely ignored General and Garage, I'd still find a lot to read here.
But the mega threads, while pretty useful for regulars, are pretty useless without an account.
I had an account since the CS days, but during days I couldn't access it and was mostly lurking. Checking in from the front page if there's new material in the sidebar always showed the same things.EDIT: especially if it defaults to infini-scrolled garbage without an account.
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@PleegWat said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@HardwareGeek oh. I never thought of that. I think the real solution is to bother @julianlam for a real spoiler functionality.
Most other boards spoiler tags are clientside as well.
Upvoted for the implicit "and I don't believe NodeBB will ever be able to do anything better than average".
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@Gąska I mean, let's be realistic here.
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@PleegWat said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@dfdub said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
I also don't mind reading that stuff when I'm prepared for it, I just want it separate from the SFW threads so that I can avoid it during the day.
And keep us from accidentally hitting suspicious image hosts via the work proxy. Though I think most people who post images rehost them here.
This 2.
I get a Windows notification plus its standard bell sound each time my work's
antivirussnooping tool finds a questionable domain, and opening a thread can thus audibly / visually tell me who has been posting in it.
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@PleegWat said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
decent content
Oh wait, you're serious
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@topspin said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
My main concern is that the forum is getting less and less appealing to newcomers.
Side Bar still gets shit ton of activity. Internet of Shit, the many Windows rants, WTF Bites, a new thread once a week or two for particularly egregious stuff that's happening, and an occasional high-effort story. Even if I completely ignored General and Garage, I'd still find a lot to read here.
But the mega threads, while pretty useful for regulars, are pretty useless without an account.
During my ban I've discovered that NodeBB has maybe, possibly gained the ability to track read posts for unregistered users. At least it kept pestering me about jumping to last read thing.
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@topspin said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
But the mega threads, while pretty useful for regulars, are pretty useless without an account.
For some reason I thought the front page widget would be set up to take last 5 created topics, rather than last 5 updated ones. That may need to be adjusted anyway - maybe sort by most recent post by the OP, so updated stories do put them back to the top but discussions do not?
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This post is deleted!
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@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@topspin said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
My main concern is that the forum is getting less and less appealing to newcomers.
Side Bar still gets shit ton of activity. Internet of Shit, the many Windows rants, WTF Bites, a new thread once a week or two for particularly egregious stuff that's happening, and an occasional high-effort story. Even if I completely ignored General and Garage, I'd still find a lot to read here.
But the mega threads, while pretty useful for regulars, are pretty useless without an account.
During my ban I've discovered that NodeBB has maybe, possibly gained the ability to track read posts for unregistered users. At least it kept pestering me about jumping to last read thing.
But only within the same session, I think. At least, if I closed the tab because I was fed up with the forum, even after my ban ended, then later decided to check for status updates, I was back at post #1 in the thread, with no jump to last read toaster.
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@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
And it's not like Lounge is some sekret klub that no outsiders are allowed into
Yes, this Lounge thing I keep hearing about. I understand that in the days one would reach Trust Level 3 by gaining a certain amount of upvotes and being active on the forum, but nowadays it's just a closed group. Should I just ask politely, or is there an application process?
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@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@topspin said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
My main concern is that the forum is getting less and less appealing to newcomers.
Side Bar still gets shit ton of activity. Internet of Shit, the many Windows rants, WTF Bites, a new thread once a week or two for particularly egregious stuff that's happening, and an occasional high-effort story. Even if I completely ignored General and Garage, I'd still find a lot to read here.
But the mega threads, while pretty useful for regulars, are pretty useless without an account.
During my ban I've discovered that NodeBB has maybe, possibly gained the ability to track read posts for unregistered users. At least it kept pestering me about jumping to last read thing.
Yeah, that was useful when you clicked it fast enough. But of course it wouldn’t default to it.
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@Gąska Oops. Alcohol doesn't improve my writing. Fixed
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@aitap said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
is there an application process?
Groups -> TL3 -> Join group
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@HardwareGeek said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@aitap said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
is there an application process?
Groups -> TL3 -> Join group
This is actually part of what bothers me. The Lounge is basically public, but treated like a place where it's safe to share personal details. I don't mind having a "safe place" and categories that are not indexed by Google or visible to unregistered users, but I think we should put some actual thought into what the Lounge should be and how access to it and content in it should be governed. Right now, it's a weird place that exists for historical reasons and hides content from the public, while simultaneously basically not being protected at all from malicious users.
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@dfdub Joining the group requires approval, although I'm not sure if there whether every request gets approved regardless or if there are some basic standards.
I agree though - there certainly should be standards for accessing it if there aren't already.
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@loopback0 said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@dfdub Joining the group requires approval, although I'm not sure if there whether every request gets approved regardless or if there are some basic standards.
I agree though - there certainly should be standards for accessing it if there aren't already.
For me the reservation to joining it was fear of making bz do work. Not sure that is enough deterrence though.
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@dfdub said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@HardwareGeek said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
@aitap said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
is there an application process?
Groups -> TL3 -> Join group
This is actually part of what bothers me. The Lounge is basically public, but treated like a place where it's safe to share personal details. I don't mind having a "safe place" and categories that are not indexed by Google or visible to unregistered users, but I think we should put some actual thought into what the Lounge should be and how access to it and content in it should be governed. Right now, it's a weird place that exists for historical reasons and hides content from the public, while simultaneously basically not being protected at all from malicious users.
In a forum full of avatars that you have no idea who's behind them, there's basically no way to test whether someone is trustworthy or not. Anything more than what we're doing would amount to security theater. And having to register an account and join a group is just enough friction to put away everyone who'd come here just to doxx people.
Edit: I'm pretty sure that historically, Lounge wasn't an open group and you had to actually ask for access. I'd be willing to go back to that system. Maybe even giving all Lounge members the privilege to accept new people to Lounge, to reduce burden on mods.
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For fuck's sake. This thread has broken edit-refreshing too. And I just finished teaching myself the refresh-after-edit habit!
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@Gąska said in Update: the new admin/moderation team and changes discussions will begin soon:
Edit: I'm pretty sure that historically, Lounge wasn't an open group and you had to actually ask for access.
Joining the group requires approval. It's not, and should not be, a total free-for-all.
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@loopback0 I blame @dfdub for confusing me.
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@Gąska it's not open now. An admin has to approve it. That's pretty pro forma if you're somewhat a known commodity on the other parts of the forum.
The biggest thing about the lounge for me is that it's not indexed by search engines. Can't do much about malicious actors, but keeping it out of a casual search is good.