Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications
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@topspin said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@loopback0 said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
I could understand people refusing to answer without an explanation of why the person asking needs to do something but closing entirely would still be shitty
The irony is that it arguably is "too broad" in the sense that as stated it's a bit of an XY problem (also cf. my reply to your post), but that's only because they apparently edited out his rationale. If you leave in the rationale what they actually need this for, it's a perfectly reasonable question with a ton of upvotes and highly upvoted answers.
I don't disagree (as I said, I'm all for asking for clarification) but the wording on the yellowish "CLOSED LOL" box is:
Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once.
Which is doubly retarded as it appeared after several adequate answers had been provided.
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@loopback0 said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Despite having actual reasonable answers it's been closed as too broad (whatever that actually means)
That is common for "recommend me a library" questions, as they often have many possible right answers.
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@dkf said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@loopback0 said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Despite having actual reasonable answers it's been closed as too broad (whatever that actually means)
That is common for "recommend me a library" questions, as they often have many possible right answers.
I don't see what's wrong with having a question with multiple right answers?
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@loopback0 said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@dkf said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@loopback0 said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Despite having actual reasonable answers it's been closed as too broad (whatever that actually means)
That is common for "recommend me a library" questions, as they often have many possible right answers.
I don't see what's wrong with having a question with multiple right answers?
It doesn't fit with the Jeffian model of Q&A. It also breaks the SE internetpointzzzzzz gamification strategy.
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@dkf said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@loopback0 said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@dkf said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@loopback0 said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Despite having actual reasonable answers it's been closed as too broad (whatever that actually means)
That is common for "recommend me a library" questions, as they often have many possible right answers.
I don't see what's wrong with having a question with multiple right answers?
It doesn't fit with the Jeffian model of Q&A.
true
It also breaks the SE internetpointzzzzzz gamification strategy.
false
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@Mason_Wheeler The issue is that the core model involves the original asker marking a question as solved by the best (for them) answer, ideally a thing that then remains true for all time, but "recommend me a tool" questions keep getting more answers, some of which are very good or even invalidate existing answers. They also attract debate, and we all know how well debate is handled by the SE system...
The matter has been argued to death on Meta (back when I occasionally participated in such, before recognising it as a fundamental waste of my time) and the conclusion was that Closing as Too Broad was usually the best plan. But this was before the idiots let the CADT hordes have access to the Close button (subject to review... but usually by the same idiots that make the dumb calls to start with).
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@dkf said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
let the CADT hordes have access to the Close button
The Gnome devs migrated to SO? I... am unsure how to feel about this.
Filed under: can’t be right, they’d have removed every button already
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@loopback0 said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@dkf said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@loopback0 said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Despite having actual reasonable answers it's been closed as too broad (whatever that actually means)
That is common for "recommend me a library" questions, as they often have many possible right answers.
I don't see what's wrong with having a question with multiple right answers?
No longer welcome here.
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@loopback0 said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Earlier today, I was wondering how to create an Excel document in C# without Office. I didn't actually need to do it, I was just curious and avoiding doing something else.
Aspose.cells, or SpreadsheetLite. Or if you're hardcore, learn the .xlsx specs and make the XML yourself.
Actually, thinking about it I used to work somewhere where someone had written code to parse the .xls binary format and extract data. I skimmed over the code, super glad I never had to do any maintenance on that
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@topspin said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
as stated it's a bit of an XY problem
XY problem is highly subjective in lots of cases. The cause of friction in lots of questions is that SO users are more interested in (re-)defining the questions users ask to suit their own narrative, or to "prove" that the question is either stupid, or wrong, so they're justified in shoving words into questioner's throat. It's very disgusting when the SO experience is pretty much words being shoved into your mouth every question as you're forbidden to use normal site functions to object to it or retaliate because you don't have enough rep (also thank for this btw). It's as if the site itself is designed to be hostile to you.
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@dkf said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
the core model involves the original asker marking a question as solved by the best (for them) answer, ideally a thing that then remains true for all time
This design is one of the most idiotic and broken thing ever because
- It assumes that the questioner has the knowledge to pick up good answers in the first place. Witness the various counter-examples: solving a locked mysql transaction by dropping the database and restoring it from back-up. There are a tons more such examples in JS questions. They're all marked as answer by the questioner, are either wrong or severely outdated, and nobody has the power to change them to something more appropriate
- it assumes that one and only one answer can be the best answer, which is trivially absurd
- Who thought that giving nobody but the questioner the power to assign best answer is a good idea? This is pointlessly putting responsibility of a fundamental site function to a particular party that isn't even cohesive to the site in the first place, and rely on them not being s to work. What if the questioner is lazy, or they just want an one-off answer? What if the questioner has left the site, or the account is inaccessible? What if the questioner just simply don't care? Then nobody is around with the power to mark answers, and the site's intended workflow is broken
Even Microsoft's own technical Q&A forum does it more correctly because it allows more than one "marked as correct" answers. always assume there is one and only one way of being right, and if users are not doing what he assumes they should do, well, then they're (read: doing it wrong), and they should be rectified to do the Right Thing . Said design permeates throughout SO and .
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
It also breaks the SE internetpointzzzzzz gamification strategy.
false
nou
SO has pretty much been Repwhore Overflow in the first place, especially concentrated in the JS section. I specifically wrote a big section on this. It's why you can answer a JS question with a non-JS answer and still get upvotes while the answer is not deleted. Even mods explicitly allow that. Everyone knows that they want the rep, and trying to prevent it is equivalent to ripping off the profit of the people: you get clubbed to death.
The idiocy of JS questions, audacity of the clowns dancing around in the JS answers reaping the rep with their obnoxious monkey approach is what managed to trigger me every, single, fucking, time. I wish I don't have to touch them, but I have the necessity to because work reasons.
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@DoctorJones said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Oh look, even more ridiculousness...
Oh cool, now the entire question comment section is nuked. Along with the context (OP trying to change their name to "AttackHelicopter").
See, this is another utterly idiotic, stupid, moronic, -esque and wrong thing about SO (and by extension, SE)'s design: its moderation tools are not just draconian, they're opaque. When comments are wiped out by mods or banished to chat, they're just, gone, With no traces of them left. It's so deleted the notifications associated with it, along with all records of it from your profile page, is just gone, as if you haven't made the comment in the first place. And the best part is, you, the poster, don't get any notifications about it.
And then the power users wonder why the company owning SO and SE is doing opaque management on the sites. Bruh, do you realize you're doing the same to your normal users? Any kind of confrontation-looking comment sections are risked to be nuked by a mod at any time in the future. The power users have always been the thing they've sought to destroy, so it's only natural they deserve what they got, right?
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@dfdub said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Because why act like a professional on a site meant for professionals?
I'm pretty sure meta.SO has always been pretty childish since the beginning.
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@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
This design is one of the most idiotic and broken thing ever because
- It assumes that the questioner has the knowledge to pick up good answers in the first place. [...]
- it assumes that one and only one answer can be the best answer, which is trivially absurd
- Who thought that giving nobody but the questioner the power to assign best answer is a good idea? [...]
Yet it manages to work better than many other Q&A sites. Something must be right about it, at least by comparison with others. (Why give the questioner the power to say what works for them? Well... why give that to anyone else?)
Even Microsoft's own technical Q&A forum does it more correctly because it allows more than one "marked as correct" answers.
A pity that so many of the marked-correct answers there are hot garbage.
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@Zerosquare said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
And the score is already at -182.
-1597 at present.
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@dkf said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Something must be right about it, at least by comparison with others.
Unpaid labor is not right or sustainable in any kind of sense, but yes, enterprise never get their share of success over it for the same reasons: they don't want to rely on such labor, but to actually sustain them you need lots of money (it's a counter-intuitively high cost), and they're not willing to spend such amount of money.
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@Jaloopa said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
someone had written code to parse the .xls binary format and extract data.
I'm so sorry you had that. It's usually riddled with the likes of "here be vorpal swords"
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@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
When comments are wiped out by mods or banished to chat, they're just, gone, With no traces of them left. It's so deleted the notifications associated with it, along with all records of it from your profile page, is just gone, as if you haven't made the comment in the first place. And the best part is, you, the poster, don't get any notifications about it.
I remember being lambasted about comments someplace (I think it was a chess one?), and told straight up that comments are intended to be ephemeral and meant to be deleted, bar none.
Make of that what you will.
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@Tsaukpaetra Yeah, and meanwhile they claim that answers are so perma-permanent that even the shittiest, wrongest answers will stay on the site, complete with excuses like "but even bad answers can benefit some readers".
I'm not sure which one is the bigger WTF, a Q&A site with every concept absolute like a typical design, or people actually coming up with shitty excuses to defend .
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@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Who thought that giving nobody but the questioner the power to assign best answer is a good idea? This is pointlessly putting responsibility of a fundamental site function to a particular party that isn't even cohesive to the site in the first place, and rely on them not being s to work. What if the questioner is lazy, or they just want an one-off answer? What if the questioner has left the site, or the account is inaccessible? What if the questioner just simply don't care? Then nobody is around with the power to mark answers, and the site's intended workflow is broken
So. Much. Drama in your post. I love it, but you're wrong about it breaking anything.
By default, accepted answers are moved to the top of the answer list, but voting still works. The accepted answer can be surpassed by other answers if the up/downvoting ratios hit some threshold (don't ask me details, it has changed over the years). Voting always has been the core interaction across the entire site.
So you should really look at the "accepted answer" thingy as part of gamification, it's meant to bestow "the prize" of extra pointzzz (especially with bounties).
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@JBert said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
So you should really look at the "accepted answer" thingy as part of gamification, it's meant to bestow "the prize" of extra pointzzz (especially with bounties).
Gamification is kinda the curse of SO itself, because so many absurd things are caused by it, and in the end most of the actual contributors don't really care about the rep anyway. I've seen lots of shitty
argumentsexcuses along the lines of "I'm justified to game the system and nibble on the extra pointzzz like a rep whore" being thrown everywhere around SO.And of course, you can't actually call them rep whores, because kinda everyone does it, so if you unleash the RW-word you make everyone look bad, which makes the site look bad. They have to cover their ass by suing you for looking at it, you know. Who else than hypothetical trolls would stare at the dirty, gaping assholes and point out how filthy these anus are?
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@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
The idiocy of JS questions
You can ask JS questions?
If you try to ask a question about C++ that can’t be answered by quoting the exact paragraph in the standard it gets CLOSED NOT OBJECTIVE.
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@topspin said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
You can ask JS questions?
The answer is jQuery.
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@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
When comments are wiped out by mods or banished to chat, they're just, gone, With no traces of them left. It's so deleted the notifications associated with it, along with all records of it from your profile page, is just gone, as if you haven't made the comment in the first place. And the best part is, you, the poster, don't get any notifications about it.
This seems oddly familiar...
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@Jaloopa said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Or if you're hardcore, learn the .xlsx specs and make the XML yourself.
Actually, thinking about it I used to work somewhere where someone had written code to parse the .xls binary format and extract data. I skimmed over the code, super glad I never had to do any maintenance on thatI wrote code that builds actual xml Excel files. Not nearly as crazy as what you're talking about, obviously.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@Jaloopa said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
someone had written code to parse the .xls binary format and extract data.
I'm so sorry you had that. It's usually riddled with the likes of "here be vorpal swords"
Cool! Where can I find one?
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@Jaloopa said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
someone had written code to parse the .xls binary format and extract data.
I'm so sorry you had that. It's usually riddled with the likes of "here be vorpal swords"
Cool! Where can I find one?
You'll want to start with offset 82 to get the index location for the map legend lookup table to determine which vorpal swords are available (if they are available)...
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@Tsaukpaetra You sunk my battleship
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> You can ask
JSquestions?The answer is jQuery.
FTFY
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@pie_flavor said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Could you widen your screenshot? I think you could reduce the line count by one more...
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@pie_flavor said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
You should get a 4K screen, they're fun. Not to mention that with one, I can finally half-align the WTDWTF window without a 767.5px width heisenberging the CSS.
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@pie_flavor said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@pie_flavor said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
You should get a 4K screen, they're fun. Not to mention that with one, I can finally half-align the WTDWTF window without a 767.5px width heisenberging the CSS.
But I do use a 4k screen.... Why are you making unsubstantiated assertions?
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@pie_flavor
Back in my day, we used 640x480 with an overlay of static snow and it worked just fine!
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@izzion green or amber?
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@topspin said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@izzion green or amber?
Yes.
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And now we've got some people, including Monica Cellio, whose rather ugly firing started this all, forming a team to build a replacement. (Turns out that's a thing that can happen all too easily when you alienate a community whose core is a bunch of experienced software developers! Who'da thunk it?)
https://discord.gg/ztG7wDw if anyone is interested and non- enough to try it out. Also, there's currently a vote going on as to which software stack should be used. I'm pulling for C#, since we know that SE was able to build their system in it, but there are a handful of people who want to do it in Node, which would almost certainly end up collapsing under the load if this project is even moderately successful. (From what they've said about themselves, they appear to mostly be teenagers who lack the real-world experience to understand why that won't work well.) A few voices from here dissuading the project from using Node would be appreciated.
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Discord is asking me to read policies (which I nearly always do), so to read the existing discussion for now.
@Mason_Wheeler said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Also, there's currently a vote going on as to which software
stackshould be used.FTFY. Why not use one of the many clones which exist, even in PHP?
The real trouble is going to be in shifting an entire audience (a tough problem unless you can somehow import a CC-by-SA backup of StackOverflow and get your answers rated higher in Google, then get users to vote with their feet) and operations (running a frequently-visited site will cost you money, so any serious attempt should get some serious financial advice and legal support on how to properly setup a (non-profit) organization).
It can be done, but this makes it no longer just a technology problem: it's now an entrepreneurship problem.
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In today's news, @Mason_Wheeler illustrates how difficult it is to change a community built on a foundation of toxicity.
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@Cabbage Wow. There's so much in that little tweet it's hard to unpack it all.
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@Mason_Wheeler I was shocked by the lack of pronouns in her about section
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@Cabbage said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
In today's news, @Mason_Wheeler illustrates how difficult it is to change a community built on a foundation of toxicity.
I don't like that @Mason_Wheeler answer, but those tweets do make a heap of assumptions in turn...
Looks like the author is selling her own brand of social justice so any example to turn a "competitor" into the "big enemy" seems like a win?
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@JBert said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
I don't like that @Mason_Wheeler answer
I don't like it either but downvotes cost Internet points, so I never downvote any answer.
SE rep is such a perfect system.
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@JBert said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Looks like the author is selling her own brand of social justice
Compassionate Coding™️
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@Zerosquare said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@JBert said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Looks like the author is selling her own brand of social justice
Compassionate Coding™️
Digital fucking for the masses!
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@izzion said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@pie_flavor
Back in my day, we used 640x480 with an overlay of static snow and it worked just fine!Pfff.... Yellow rolls of paper. Upper Case characters only - 7.2 seconds to print one (full) line.....
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@Cabbage said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
In today's news, @Mason_Wheeler illustrates how difficult it is to change a community built on a foundation of toxicity.
So, I fundamentally don’t understand Twitter (like, at all), as it’s much more broken than SO, but assuming the text on top refers to the linked picture...
... then: answer the fucking question!
What kind of response is this? Someone raises a legitimate concern about how they are unsure to conform even if they want to, and her response to that is to call it toxic?
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does "I tapped into fierce compassion" mean?
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@error said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
does "I tapped into fierce compassion" mean?
You’re the native speaker, don’t look at me.