Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements)
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Also Mac users can get Fortnite from Epic's launcher, so Mac Fortnite could still be updated. Except Epic say no.
Fortnite is splitting into two different games because of Epic and Apple’s fight
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New: Fortnite on iOS and Mac will lose cross-play with other platforms, too.
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@Atazhaia said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
So Epic is now going after Apple (and Google) by breaking store policy and sneaking in their own payment solution to avoid the 30% cut that Apple and Google takes. Knowing they would get kicked out for doing so they already had lawsuits and a Fortnite event ready to go.
Just because a policy exists does not meant it's a good one, nor that it's a legally valid one. Apple's is blatantly in violation of the Sherman Act's prohibition on tying. (Google's might also be, but it's a much less clear-cut case there because they don't have an anticompetitive "walled garden" keeping alternative stores and standard downloads off of Android.)
Then Epic goes to court to cry about Fortnite being kicked out of the App Store. The judge sides with Apple and tells Epic this situation is their own damn fault and can be easily rectified.
No, not at all. Epic filed a lawsuit against Apple alleging that their conduct, which obviously violates the Sherman Act, violates the Sherman Act, and asked for an injunction forcing Apple to put Fortnite back on the App Store. Apple retaliated against them by attempting to pull their entire developer license and blacklist the Unreal Engine in its entirety from the App Store. (Keep in mind, this is less than a month after Tim Cook emphatically told a Congressional inquiry that Apple does not retaliate against developers who protest the App Store's high fees. Lying to Congress is a felony. Why has he not been arrested yet?) Epic asked the judge for another injunction against this retaliatory conduct. The judge granted the latter injunction, but not the first one.
A preliminary, temporary injunction is not a ruling. The judge said, in effect, "with their retaliatory action, Apple is obviously in the wrong and needs to stop right away; with the removal of Fortnite, it's not quite as obvious and the matter needs to proceed to a full trial in order to establish the facts."
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Both sides on this fight are terrible. I wonder if they can both lose
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@Mason_Wheeler Yes, Apple going after Unreal Engine is wrong and overstepping their bounds and is quite relaitory (even if Apple tries to defend their action with "it's standard to cut off all related dev accounts"). But then again, Epic has also been overstepping their bounds by doing a calculated and preplanned attack on Apple (and a lesser extent Google).
The hypocrisy from Epic is also quite staggering, considerig they first tried to negotiate a special deal with Apple to not have to pay the 30% app store "tax" just for themselves and then come out and say they are fighting for all developers in doing this. If they truly were fighting for all developers they should have done that from the beginning.
But yeah, Epic KNEW they would be banned. Epic filed their lawsuit like 30 minutes after Apple gave them the notice that they would be terminated. Epic started their anti-Apple campaign like 24 hours after, fully themed with a Fortnite event and movie, than then a week later an anti-Apple tournament and special anti-Apple items. If I was Apple I would be a lot less charitable than they are right now and just tell Epic to fuck right off. But Apple are instead keeping their standpoint that Fortnite will be welcome back to iOS and the dev accounts will be reinstated once Epic removes their policy-infringing payment option, which Epic is flat out refusing for no other reason than Epic trying to rile up public opinion against Apple. Which they are also showing by throwing their Mac users under the bus, even though there is nothing stopping them from keeping on updating and using their own payment system in the Mac version of Fortnite. This is Epic 100% of their own decision choosing to give the middle finger to their Apple-using fanbase. Because Apple explicitly said that Epic are welcome to fight them in court over the App Store policies without the need to impact their players in the fight at all.
But considering Epic is forced to go through whatever payment option is used on MS Store, PS Store, Nintendo eShop, then why are they not briging the fight to them too? It's the same thing as the App Store on iOS. You want to run your game on a Playstation? Then better use the PS Store, the PS Store payment provider and have Sony take a 30% cut, just like Apple.
The discussion should instead be if the industry standard 30% cut is ok or not. Would be nice with something like the Steam model, where the cut is lowered the more copies/IAP is sold. It gives the developer more of an incentive to increase the user base and engagement because it will give them a bigger cut, at the same time as the platform provider will earn more money from an increased sales volume.
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@Atazhaia said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
@Mason_Wheeler Yes, Apple going after Unreal Engine is wrong and overstepping their bounds and is quite relaitory (even if Apple tries to defend their action with "it's standard to cut off all related dev accounts").
So retaliation is standard. Again, why has Tim Cook not been arrested yet?
But then again, Epic has also been overstepping their bounds by doing a calculated and preplanned attack on Apple (and a lesser extent Google).
How does this constitute overstepping their bounds?
The hypocrisy from Epic is also quite staggering, considerig they first tried to negotiate a special deal with Apple to not have to pay the 30% app store "tax" just for themselves and then come out and say they are fighting for all developers in doing this. If they truly were fighting for all developers they should have done that from the beginning.
If they had gotten the "special" deal, it would have set a heck of a precedent that other developers could have leveraged, and Apple knew it. Why do you think they didn't want to grant such a deal?
But yeah, Epic KNEW they would be banned.
Of course they did. Apple has a long track record of abuse, and frankly your defense of their actions reeks of victim-blaming.
Epic filed their lawsuit like 30 minutes after Apple gave them the notice that they would be terminated. Epic started their anti-Apple campaign like 24 hours after, fully themed with a Fortnite event and movie, than then a week later an anti-Apple tournament and special anti-Apple items.
If only more abuse vicitms had the wherewithal and the resources to be so prepared!If I was Apple I would be a lot less charitable than they are right now and just tell Epic to fuck right off.
Oh, you mean exactly what they did until the judge granted an injunction saying they couldn't do that?
But Apple are instead keeping their standpoint that Fortnite will be welcome back to iOS and the dev accounts will be reinstated once Epic removes their policy-infringing payment option, which Epic is flat out refusing for no other reason than Epic trying to rile up public opinion against Apple.
So refusing to come back home and submit to further abuse without anything changing is just a publicity stunt on Epic's part? Your reasoning here is getting more and more disturbing...
Which they are also showing by throwing their Mac users under the bus,
All 3 of them!
even though there is nothing stopping them from keeping on updating and using their own payment system in the Mac version of Fortnite. This is Epic 100% of their own decision choosing to give the middle finger to their Apple-using fanbase. Because Apple explicitly said that Epic are welcome to fight them in court over the App Store policies without the need to impact their players in the fight at all.
Because doing so would legitimize Apple's abuse, which is antithetical to their goals here.
But considering Epic is forced to go through whatever payment option is used on MS Store, PS Store, Nintendo eShop, then why are they not briging the fight to them too? It's the same thing as the App Store on iOS. You want to run your game on a Playstation? Then better use the PS Store, the PS Store payment provider and have Sony take a 30% cut, just like Apple.
Priorities. Even as big as they are, Epic doesn't have the resources to take on the entire game publishing industry at once. But if they go after the one that's by far the largest and the worst of the bunch and end up winning, they most likely won't have to because of the precedent it will set.
The discussion should instead be if the industry standard 30% cut is ok or not.
It really isn't, but that's not the question here. The question is whether the court can be persuaded that the Sherman Act means what it says. Because as-written, Apple is blatantly in violation of it, and therefore the "but policy!" and "but developer contract!" arguments are 100% invalid.
As I said in the other thread on this subject, it's nice to see someone with the resources to do so finally come out and say what the entire industry has been thinking for 13 years now: Apple's model is illegal. And that's really the only relevant discussion here.
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@Mason_Wheeler Apple is still not alone in using underhanded tactics. Epic is ALSO using underhanded tactics. But it's ok for Epic to do it because they are the underdogs? Bribing/buying game devs into exclusivity on the EGS is not exactly "promoting consumer choice" and "combating monopolies" as Epic says they are fighting for.
And if Epic really wanted to go after the biggest player, why not go after Sony? I would imagine that is the platform with the biggest Fortnite playerbase, as well as being the biggest locked down platform. So if Epic wants to make an example, why not complain about how Sony is having a monopoly and unfair business practices on their platform? Why no anti-Sony movie? Anti-Sony event? Anti-Sony themed loot?
The thing is, Epic could fight their fight without causing any interruption to their playerbase, who are completely innocent in all this. And based off how Epic likes to act, I don't believe their words about them fighting for the good for everyone one bit.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
Why has he not been arrested yet?
He didn't commit a felony.
@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
Epic filed a lawsuit against Apple alleging that their conduct, which obviously violates the Sherman Act, violates the Sherman Act
Except iOS is less than 30% of the mobile market. That's not really a monopoly.
If people don't like it they can go to Android which has 75% of the market.
AFAIK you can only buy things on an Xbox from the Xbox Store, and on a Playstation from the Playstation Store, etc. All fine.@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
But if they go after the one that's by far the largest and the worst of the bunch
Apple isn't the largest. I'm not sure it's really any worse (nor any better) than the rest.
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@Atazhaia said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
So if Epic wants to make an example, why not complain about how Sony is having a monopoly and unfair business practices on their platform? Why no anti-Sony movie? Anti-Sony event? Anti-Sony themed loot?
They wouldn't dare. If Sony kicked them off, they'd be much more fucked.
edit: Also Sony are investors in Epic Games.
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@loopback0 said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
Why has he not been arrested yet?
He didn't commit a felony.
Did the law change while I wasn't looking? Because last I checked, lying to Congress was still a felony.
@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
Epic filed a lawsuit against Apple alleging that their conduct, which obviously violates the Sherman Act, violates the Sherman Act
Except iOS is less than 30% of the mobile market. That's not really a monopoly.
If people don't like it they can go to Android which has 75% of the market.This argument only makes sense if all "mobile" devices are fungible. Given that you can't install and run an iOS app on an Android device or vice versa, that's not the case.
AFAIK you can only buy things on an Xbox from the Xbox Store, and on a Playstation from the Playstation Store, etc. All fine.
A few months ago I bought a Playstation game at GameStop. (They also had Xbox games there, but I didn't buy any as I don't own an Xbox.)
@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
But if they go after the one that's by far the largest and the worst of the bunch
Apple isn't the largest. I'm not sure it's really any worse (nor any better) than the rest.
Revenue-wise, is anyone bigger than them? As for being the worst, they're locked down the tightest, and that's the most objectionable part of all this. Google allows other stores on Android, or you can just download an app off the Web and install it just like you would on a PC. Consoles still have physical copies. PCs are the same PCs they've always been. Only Apple forces the entire ecosystem through their toll road.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
Why has he not been arrested yet?
Because he has a lot of money.
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@Atazhaia said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
@Mason_Wheeler Apple is still not alone in using underhanded tactics.
We're not talking about Apple doing "underhanded" things, we're talking about Apple doing illegal things.
Epic is ALSO using underhanded tactics.
...such as?
But it's ok for Epic to do it because they are the underdogs? Bribing/buying game devs into exclusivity on the EGS
...has nothing whatosever to do with the iOS App Store fight, so please take the bothsiderisms
.And if Epic really wanted to go after the biggest player, why not go after Sony? I would imagine that is the platform with the biggest Fortnite playerbase,
What are you basing this imagining on? I don't have any data on it either way, but it sounds like neither do you.
as well as being the biggest locked down platform.
Not only is that not the case qualitatively (see above), it's also not the case quantitatively. The iOS installed base in the USA alone is almost 50% larger than the PS4 installed base worldwide.
The thing is, Epic could fight their fight without causing any interruption to their playerbase, who are completely innocent in all this.
They're still Fortnite players!
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
Revenue-wise, is anyone bigger than them?
Some governments. Some.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
The iOS installed base in the USA alone is almost 50% larger than the PS4 installed base worldwide.
But in the context of Epic and Fortnite, isn't the important metric the number of Fortnite players on each platform? I'd imagine there's a far higher proportion of playstation owners who have Fortnite than iPhone users
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@Jaloopa Again with the imagining. What data is this based on?
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
@loopback0 said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
Why has he not been arrested yet?
He didn't commit a felony.
Did the law change while I wasn't looking? Because last I checked, lying to Congress was still a felony.
Sure. But he didn't.
AFAIK you can only buy things on an Xbox from the Xbox Store, and on a Playstation from the Playstation Store, etc. All fine.
A few months ago I bought a Playstation game at GameStop. (They also had Xbox games there, but I didn't buy any as I don't own an Xbox.)
Not on a Playstation though.
Does a publisher of a Playstation game need to adhere to rules dictated by Sony to physically publish a Playstation game?@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
Revenue-wise, is anyone bigger than them?
In the games market? Apple are 4th.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
@Jaloopa Again with the imagining. What data is this based on?
The data that 100% of playstation users are gamers and less than 100% of phone users are gamers
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@loopback0 said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
@loopback0 said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
Why has he not been arrested yet?
He didn't commit a felony.
Did the law change while I wasn't looking? Because last I checked, lying to Congress was still a felony.
Sure. But he didn't.
He very emphatically stated, to Congress, that Apple does not retaliate. Can any reasonable person deny that Apple's decision to blacklist the Unreal Engine in its entirety was retaliation? What part of that constitutes not lying to Congress?
AFAIK you can only buy things on an Xbox from the Xbox Store, and on a Playstation from the Playstation Store, etc. All fine.
A few months ago I bought a Playstation game at GameStop. (They also had Xbox games there, but I didn't buy any as I don't own an Xbox.)
Not on a Playstation though.
Does it matter? The game runs on the Playstation, which is the only thing that's actually relevant.
Does a publisher of a Playstation game need to adhere to rules dictated by Sony to physically publish a Playstation game?
Sony would probably like you to believe they do. I think the reality of it is not quite so clear-cut, but I'd have to do a bit of research to be sure.
@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
Revenue-wise, is anyone bigger than them?
In the games market? Apple are 4th.
Source?
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
Google's might also be, but it's a much less clear-cut case there because they don't have an anticompetitive "walled garden" keeping alternative stores and standard downloads off of Android.
They sort of do. To use alternative stores and downloaded APKs, you have to find an obscure setting that will allow installing apps from any source. It would be better if they instead had a prompt when you tried to install from another source, kind of like Windows does now.
Keep in mind, this is less than a month after Tim Cook emphatically told a Congressional inquiry that Apple does not retaliate against developers who protest the App Store's high fees. Lying to Congress is a felony. Why has he not been arrested yet?
To answer your question:
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@abarker It's not particularly obscure. IIRC when I downloaded an APK, it popped up a message saying I couldn't install it because a specific setting was not enabled, and the prompt gave me the option to go to the right place and change that setting.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
But Apple are instead keeping their standpoint that Fortnite will be welcome back to iOS and the dev accounts will be reinstated once Epic removes their policy-infringing payment option, which Epic is flat out refusing for no other reason than Epic trying to rile up public opinion against Apple.
So refusing to come back home and submit to further abuse without anything changing is just a publicity stunt on Epic's part? Your reasoning here is getting more and more disturbing...
Thinking about this, I wonder if Epic did submit at this point if it would be detrimental to their case.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
Revenue-wise, is anyone bigger than them?
In the games market? Apple are 4th.
Source?
This but I found a newer one.
They snuck past Microsoft. Third.
https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-25-companies-game-revenues/
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
This argument only makes sense if all "mobile" devices are fungible. Given that you can't install and run an iOS app on an Android device or vice versa, that's not the case.
How far does this line of thinking go? Do Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft each have a monopoly on the video game market because the software for their respective systems only runs on that system? Do razor companies all have their own monopoly because their blade cartridges aren't interchangeable?
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
Why has he not been arrested yet?
He didn't commit a felony.
Did the law change while I wasn't looking? Because last I checked, lying to Congress was still a felony.
Sure. But he didn't.
He very emphatically stated, to Congress, that Apple does not retaliate. Can any reasonable person deny that Apple's decision to blacklist the Unreal Engine in its entirety was retaliation? What part of that constitutes not lying to Congress?
We've been here before.
@loopback0 said in In other news today...:
@Mason_Wheeler said in In other news today...:
Tim Cook testified to Congress that Apple does not retaliate. So that's a felony.
He actually said they don't retaliate against developers who "went public about their frustrations with the App Store". Epic didn't just do that - they ignored the T&Cs of the platform deliberately releasing software that didn't comply and then filed a lawsuit when Apple did exactly what they're contractually allowed to.
Both sides suck in this situation but Epic brought it upon themselves.
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@loopback0 said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
He actually said they don't retaliate against developers who "went public about their frustrations with the App Store".
Which Epic did, very publicly and in a rather epic fashion. The additional fact that they also did other things does not change the basic fact that they went public about their frustrations with the App Store and Apple retaliated against them.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
@loopback0 said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
He actually said they don't retaliate against developers who "went public about their frustrations with the App Store".
Which Epic did, very publicly and in a rather epic fashion. The additional fact that they also did other things does not change the basic fact that they went public about their frustrations with the App Store and Apple retaliated against them.
It does change it, because if they'd just gone public about their frustrations and done nothing else, Apple would have done nothing else.
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@loopback0
At no point did Tim Cook say "and nothing else" in his testimony to Congress.
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@Mason_Wheeler If Epic had just thrown their tanty, then you might have had a point, but did you forget the part where they also sued Apple?
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@hungrier said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
@Mason_Wheeler If Epic had just thrown their tanty, then you might have had a point, but did you forget the part where they also sued Apple?
But suing companies is just peaceful protest!
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@hungrier said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
@Mason_Wheeler If Epic had just thrown their tanty, then you might have had a point, but did you forget the part where they also sued Apple?
Your point?
Again, nowhere did Tim Cook say "unless they sue us." He made a very absolute statement that Apple does not retaliate against developers who publicly protest against the App Store's policies, and then less than a month later they did precisely that. Period.
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@Mason_Wheeler I believe he did not say "even if they sue us" either...
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@JBert Why should he have to? Absolute statements are absolute.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
@hungrier said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
@Mason_Wheeler If Epic had just thrown their tanty, then you might have had a point, but did you forget the part where they also sued Apple?
Your point?
Again, nowhere did Tim Cook say "unless they sue us." He made a very absolute statement that Apple does not retaliate against developers who publicly protest against the App Store's policies, and then less than a month later they did precisely that. Period.
How far does that line of thinking go? Does Epic's public whining shield them from the consequences of any other actions they might subsequently take? Would they be allowed to reverse engineer Apple's trade secrets without repercussion, or break into Tim Cook's house, or what?
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If Epic commits a crime, then Apple should press charges and have a prosecutor prosecute them. This has not happened, and no one is alleging it happened.
Absolute statements are absolute. Words have meanings, and they don't stop meaning what they mean just because you don't like the implications. Tim Cook lied to Congress, which is a felony. He probably should have chosen his words more carefully, but he didn't.
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@Mason_Wheeler But no, by your logic, that would be retaliation. Once Epic makes any public statement, anything Apple does against them is off limits whether or not Epic has done anything else. These are your rules, I didn't make them
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@Mason_Wheeler if I say I don't retaliate against people who poke me in the eye, then somebody pokes me in the eye and punches me, it doesn't make me liar to retaliate against the punch
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@Mason_Wheeler Epic broke the T&C laid out by Apple. Apple responded by enforcing their legal rights according to the T&C, which is to terminate Epic's dev accounts. Apple has also said the Fortnite is welcome back to the App Store once Epic stops breaking the T&C, regardless if Epic takes them to court or not. Epic could keep abiding by the T&C and still take Apple to court over the unfair business practices, they are just choosing not to.
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@Atazhaia said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
Epic broke the T&C laid out by Apple. Apple responded by enforcing their legal rights according to the T&C, which is to terminate Epic's dev accounts.
Where in the T&C does it say "and also blacklist the Unreal Engine in its entirety for all developers, not just Epic?"
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@Mason_Wheeler Apple stated that normal practice is to terminate all related dev accounts, meaning every Epic dev account. The judge however decided that they should be treated as separate entities, meaning Apple was only allowed to terminated Epic Games and not Epic International (UE team). Which I think is a completely fair ruling by the court, because going after all of Epic would also affect third parties the rely on UE. But then again, this is still something that Epic brought upon themselves, I guess hoping to gain the support of all the devs that rely on UE if that team would be unable to keep developing for Apple platforms.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
@Atazhaia said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
Epic broke the T&C laid out by Apple. Apple responded by enforcing their legal rights according to the T&C, which is to terminate Epic's dev accounts.
Where in the T&C does it say "and also blacklist the Unreal Engine in its entirety for all developers, not just Epic?"
In theory they didn't blacklist the Unreal Engine... It's just that Epic has no practical way to build binaries for other developers to use when the T&C says they can't use the developer tools or documentation without a license. Still, Epic could choose to distribute the UE source code and let others compile it.
Of course, this is an interesting case for an anti-trust lawsuit. But as long as the T&C stand, Apple didn't "retaliate" if the conditions also stated a termination clause.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
He made a very absolute statement that Apple does not retaliate against developers who publicly protest against the App Store's policies, and then less than a month later they did precisely that. Period.
As much as I hate to defend Apple in this multilateral
show, Apple retaliated against someone who violated their T&C. The fact that they also whined publicly about the T&C (for which Apple (maybe) didn't retaliate) does not protect them from retaliation for violating the T&C.-
Epic whined. Apple did not retaliate; well, maybe not. Cook (maybe) did not lie about this.
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Epic violated the T&C. Apple retaliated. This does not make Cook's statement about non-retaliation a lie.
The fact that 1 and 2 happened at essentially the same time does make Apple's response to 2 a response to 1, and does not make Apple's claim that they do not retaliate for 1 a lie.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
@abarker It's not particularly obscure. IIRC when I downloaded an APK, it popped up a message saying I couldn't install it because a specific setting was not enabled, and the prompt gave me the option to go to the right place and change that setting.
Screenshots for posterity (downloaded an APK through the browser):
So it's two taps. When you enable the setting and hit the back button, the permission is rechecked and you get the normal installation prompt.
I think on older Android versions you had to enable developer options (which is an obscure process, to be fair) but that was because the setting that allowed unknown sources was global. It's more granular now (per-source), so the UI could safely be simplified.
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@heterodox said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
I think on older Android versions you had to enable developer options (which is an obscure process, to be fair)
I think my version is old enough to require that. I'm not sure; I've never tried, because I've never wanted to install a non-Store app. (I haven't even installed many Store apps, mostly because so many of the want permissions they don't need and shouldn't have.) I like Android because it gives me the option to install arbitrary apps, but an occasion where I actually wanted to hasn't arisen.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
The hypocrisy from Epic is also quite staggering, considerig they first tried to negotiate a special deal with Apple to not have to pay the 30% app store "tax" just for themselves and then come out and say they are fighting for all developers in doing this. If they truly were fighting for all developers they should have done that from the beginning.
If they had gotten the "special" deal, it would have set a heck of a precedent that other developers could have leveraged, and Apple knew it. Why do you think they didn't want to grant such a deal?
Not sure if it was mentioned previously because I haven't read all posts, but Amazon has a special deal with Apple that they only pay 15% instead of the regular 30%. So the precedent is already there.
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Noticed something fun: Apple Arcade is breaking the App Store guidelines. That's an angle of attack for game subscription services.
You may offer a single subscription that is shared across your own apps and services, but these subscriptions may not extend to third-party apps or services. Games offered in a game subscription must be owned or exclusively licensed by the developer (e.g. not part of a game publishing platform). Each game must be downloaded directly from the App Store, must be designed to avoid duplicate payment by a subscriber, and should not disadvantage non-subscriber customers.
Also, notice that Epic are still allowed to sell v-bucks directly on their own website which can be used in Fortnite on iOS, just they're not allowed to encourage users to use that instead.
Apps that operate across multiple platforms may allow users to access content, subscriptions, or features they have acquired in your app on other platforms or your web site, including consumable items in multiplatform games, provided those items are also available as in-app purchases within the app. You must not directly or indirectly target iOS users to use a purchasing method other than in-app purchase, and your general communications about other purchasing methods must not discourage use of in-app purchase.
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Epic's victim complex is growing by the day, as seen by thie e-mail sent to their Apple-using consumers.
Apple is blocking Fortnite updates and new installs on the App Store, and has said they will terminate our ability to develop Fortnite for Apple devices. As a result, the Chapter 2 - Season 4 update (v14.00), did not release on iOS and macOS on August 27. [...]
Apple limits competition so they can collect 30% of consumer payments made in apps like Fortnite, raising the prices you pay. Epic lowered prices through a direct payment option, but Apple is blocking Fortnite in order to prevent Epic from passing on the savings from direct payments to players. Epic has taken legal action to end Apple's anti-competitive restrictions on mobile device marketplaces. Papers are available for our August 13, August 17, and August 23 filings. In retaliation for this action, Apple blocked your access to Fortnite updates and new installs on all iOS devices.
Epic are STILL NOT BLOCKED from releasing on macOS, as that's open for installing whatever. Epic can still use whatever payment method on macOS, as they have been doing up until now anyway. They just keep pushing the "for the consumers" angle while throwing their consumers under the bus in their fight with Apple. And as I said in my previous post, THEY CAN SELL THEIR IAP TO BE USED IN IOS ON THEIR OWN WEBSITE AND/OR IN THEIR MAC CLIENT FOR CHEAPER IF THEY WANT TO. Fucking hypocrites.
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@Atazhaia said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
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I'm a simple person. I like Epic. I've gotten free beer from them (not very good one, but, hey, beer). And a free t-shirt. And they give away free games. And I can access the UE Engine (including source code) without having to pay anything. The only free thing I've gotten from Apple is brain hemorrhaging. And on second thought, that wasn't actually free - my employer had to pay for that privilege.
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@cvi said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
free beer ... free t-shirt ... free games ... without having to pay anything
Tankie economics thread is
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@cvi said in Epic Store (and other "Occupy Steam" movements):
I'm a simple person. I like Epic. I've gotten free beer from them (not very good one, but, hey, beer). And a free t-shirt. And they give away free games. And I can access the UE Engine (including source code) without having to pay anything. The only free thing I've gotten from Apple is brain hemorrhaging. And on second thought, that wasn't actually free - my employer had to pay for that privilege.
They are as despicable as Apple, they just don't have enough power to establish their walled garden all the time. But they do it whenever they can with their disgusting exclusive deals.
