A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted
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@izzion said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
"I would like to start by formally stating, under oath:
I fucked up."
Filed under: things WTDWTF members might (but hope not to) say one day
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@Zerosquare Not to be garagey here, I s'pose no matter your opinion on masks in general this is completely idiotic.
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@LaoC said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@Zerosquare Not to be garagey here, I s'pose no matter your opinion on masks in general this is completely idiotic.
I thought we didn't kink shame exhibitionism here
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@izzion said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@LaoC said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@Zerosquare Not to be garagey here, I s'pose no matter your opinion on masks in general this is completely idiotic.
I thought we didn't kink shame exhibitionism here
True, but I hear special exceptions for cryptobros are acceptable.
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(too political? )
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@Zerosquare said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@izzion said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
"I would like to start by formally stating, under oath:
I fucked up."
Filed under: things WTDWTF members might (but hope not to) say one day
I like to think that no one on WTDWTF would be foolish enough to be recorded saying that... Unless they're fishing for a firing.
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@DogsB said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
Unless they're fishing for a firing.
Which obviously none of us do, right.
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@izzion said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
He tells a good story. Will be lots of fun to hear how his girlfriend at Alameda spins this against him. Would also be very interested to find out who are these people with "billions of dollars" waiting to finance FTX if only they would start operating again.
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My siba coin is now worth half my initial investment!
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@DogsB said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
My siba coin is now worth half my initial investment!
That means (surprisingly) it's still worth something!
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The headline is too good to care whether or not it's true (or to try to get past the paywall):
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@boomzilla said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@izzion said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
He tells a good story. Will be lots of fun to hear how his girlfriend at Alameda spins this against him. Would also be very interested to find out who are these people with "billions of dollars" waiting to finance FTX if only they would start operating again.
For those who didn't read, I just did, here's the rough summary:
- BF, once upon a time, worked at Alameda Research, but left to start FTX (as two separate entities, one US and one in the Bahamas).
- Alameda Research decided to use leverage (just 10%) through FTX on assets that ended up cratering 50%.
- When FTX did a margin call, it turned out that Alameda Research didn't have liquid assets to back it up, so FTX only recovered ~50% of what they should have. And since this is crypto, and it flash-crashes faster and more often than the stock market does, this is bad.
- Aaaaaand then there was a bank run on FTX, right when it has its pants down with a bunch of money owed and not enough coming from Alameda Research.
- Additional shenanigans: while FTX was in crisis, its competitor, Binance, started talking about acquiring FTX, and got to the point of signing some docs that forced FTX to reject other offers for a few days while they hammered out details -- and then Binance just walked away from the deal.
- Bonus shenanigans: that bank run on FTX started when Binance sent a tweet saying they were going to dump some FTX-related coins. BF claims this was the final blow from a month of Binance waging a PR war against FTX. (If we decide to hate FTX, then it's just Binance telling it like it is while FTX has no idea what they're stumbling into.)
- Bonus schadenfreude: BF claims that he got offers to bail out FTX just 10 minutes after he signed the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy paperwork, and that he couldn't recall that paperwork. (He's also accusing the lawyers who are running the Chapter 11 of malfeasance of various stripes.)
So if we take BF entirely at his word, he screwed up on managing customer risk (he managed FTX risk just fine, but didn't do due diligence on inspecting their customer's risks that FTX could potentially end up on the hook for), and Binance waged a war that culminated in a death-blow for FTX right at the time that FTX couldn't handle it.
I'm sure it's all true to some degree or another, and I certainly don't have the financial chops to say whether this was gross incompetence or just garden-variety incompetence plus bad luck, but it's definitely a good story. (And, frankly, failure to look at risk while offering leverage with crypto is definitely giving waggly eyebrows towards gross incompetence, but it sounds like most of this problem would have happened even without the leverage.)
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@PotatoEngineer said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
If we decide to hate FTX
As if we would ever not do that!
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@PotatoEngineer said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
So if we take BF entirely at his word
I guess more proof will need to leak out to see if SBF is even close to telling the truth, but so far it seems to me there are more honest politicians.
Here's a fund manager / professor of finance giving his driest discussion of the charges brought against SBF:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFpYTCD7asc
You might as well read the transcript, although there's the rare bit of deadpan humor like at 0:18:11 or at 0:24:59.
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@JBert said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
professor of finance giving his driest discussion
I'd rather watch paint dry.
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@LaoC The fool and his trump cards are soon parted is
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@LaoC The fool and his trump cards are soon parted is
This is almost the right thread - if it were named: "A fool and his money are soon parted"
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@dcon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@Applied-Mediocrity said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@LaoC The fool and his trump cards are soon parted is
This is almost the right thread - if it were named: "A fool and his money are soon parted"
Laser Man said you could pay with your Crypto.
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@LaoC so like, how does the atk/def system work?
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@Gribnit said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@LaoC so like, how does the atk/def system work?
I think they're all more like the Ben Gurion in Jewish Poker.
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@LaoC said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@Gribnit said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@LaoC so like, how does the atk/def system work?
I think they're all more like the Ben Gurion in Jewish Poker.
Pfft..., that's weak to Sammy Davis Jr.
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@dkf said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@LaoC At least with the blockchain you know which artist you're stealing from!
artist
Remember, this is NFT we're talking about.
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@Medinoc scam artist is a thing.
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Dogbert knows well how to do Crypto correctly:
(https://dilbert.com/strip/2022-12-20)
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Someoneâs a little jealous of his prerogative to cause financial mayhem.
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@izzion said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
Someoneâs a little jealous of his prerogative to cause financial mayhem.
Crypto seems like a great money sink to vanish some of the newly minted money to deal with the entirely created financial problem of kung flu.
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@Carnage said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@izzion said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
Someoneâs a little jealous of his prerogative to cause financial mayhem.
Crypto seems like a great money sink to vanbish some of the newly minted money to deal with the entirely created financial problem of kung flu.
Would probably be better for the environment to use the money on indulgences for Al Goreâs mansions though.
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@izzion said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@Carnage said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@izzion said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
Someoneâs a little jealous of his prerogative to cause financial mayhem.
Crypto seems like a great money sink to vanbish some of the newly minted money to deal with the entirely created financial problem of kung flu.
Would probably be better for the environment to use the money on indulgences for Al Goreâs mansions though.
But that way they actually create something. Vanishing by crypto will have created nothing, and wasted a lot of energy. Not that you have to mine new crypto, jsut blast a fuckload of currency into an existing one, and create an inflation, and then just let it crash when you've dumped all your extra into it. Money gone.
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Alexa, play Yakety Sax
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Looks like the science is settled on this matter.
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@Carnage said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
But that way they actually create something. Vanishing by crypto will have created nothing, and wasted a lot of energy. Not that you have to mine new crypto, jsut blast a fuckload of currency into an existing one, and create an inflation, and then just let it crash when you've dumped all your extra into it. Money gone.
That's just speculation.
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@Carnage said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
Not that you have to mine new crypto, jsut blast a fuckload of currency into an existing one, and create an inflation, and then just let it crash when you've dumped all your extra into it. Money gone.
Somebody's money is gone, but in cases like these Conservation of Finance kicks in.
If you pay someone fiat for crypto, the money is still there, just not in your pocket. Asset valuations pulled out people's asses (quantity held x price that will not hold up for five seconds if you try to liquidate your holdings) aren't actually money.
The only way to balance that budget is - ultimately - to have more goods and services that money can buy in the market. Consumer goods, for preference.
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@dkf said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@Carnage said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
But that way they actually create something. Vanishing by crypto will have created nothing, and wasted a lot of energy. Not that you have to mine new crypto, jsut blast a fuckload of currency into an existing one, and create an inflation, and then just let it crash when you've dumped all your extra into it. Money gone.
That's just speculation.
But, with extra steps.
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Step 1: Steal your customer's funds
Step 2: Post bail with them
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Private island baybee!
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@izzion Well fuck. That must be why I can't find a new doctor accepting patients. (I have to drive an extra 30mi or so to go see my current PCP.)
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Counterpoint to SBF's story:
This one is much more believable.
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What we need now is a scam where the scammers scam is that they're going to scam other scammers.
ed. it's called "independent strategic analysis" hth
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@izzion Remember, if they don't accept revalued dinar, it's not a legitimate business.
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@Gribnit said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
the scammers scam is that they're going to scam other scammers
This has happened. It... isn't really long for the world, unfortunately.
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At least he was an amazing money launderer
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The targetted marketing is getting freakishly good.
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Experience the capabilities of the latest autobot we've just rolled out
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