A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted
-
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
As I said previously that it has stabilised in value for now.
For a couple of months? That's a pretty short time frame. Sorry, but unless you're doing something illegal I can't see any reason to use any cryptocurrencies as currency instead of as a high risk speculative investment.
-
@Rhywden people can say that of computers in general.
-
@sweaty_gammon (explosions, screams, a strong smell of ash) "Oh, no, this is just the breaking-in period. Make sure to step over the bodies."
-
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@Rhywden people can say that of computers in general.
Yes, but there's a definitive skew in power consumption versus service provided.
-
@sweaty_gammon Well, computers in general actually accomplish things.
-
@boomzilla The dotcom boom went through a similar period. Everything was massively overvalued and it crashed.
If you can withdraw the currency on the same day, it really doesn't matter what the exchange rate is as long as the price is agreed.
I think a lot of people forget that is is what less than a decade that this technology has been around and they expect it to work like institutions that are hundreds of years old.
-
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
-
@pie_flavor Well computers from master card etc are verifying transactions. Computers that are mining do verify transactions.
Tell me in principle what the major difference is?
-
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@pie_flavor Well computers from master card etc are verifying transactions. Computers that are mining do verify transactions.
Tell me in principle what the major difference is?
Speed and power consumption.
-
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@pie_flavor Well computers from master card etc are verifying transactions. Computers that are mining do verify transactions.
Tell me in principle what the major difference is?
MasterCard handles transactions of things with actual value. Also, MasterCard implicitly trusts its servers, whereas blockchains use proof-of-work verification meaning they're optimizing for space heater functionality.
-
@pie_flavor Perceived value.
A dollar isn't worth anything without the perception of its value.
-
@sweaty_gammon Thanks. Respond to the rest of the post.
-
@pie_flavor I dunno about you but if someone is basing the rest of their argument on an incomplete premise, you must first make sure you correct their premise?
-
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@boomzilla The dotcom boom went through a similar period. Everything was massively overvalued and it crashed.
Yes, that's largely the point I've been making about it, except that you could still buy petfood from pets.com in a reasonable manner.
If you can withdraw the currency on the same day, it really doesn't matter what the exchange rate is as long as the price is agreed.
I think a lot of people forget that is is what less than a decade that this technology has been around and they expect it to work like institutions that are hundreds of years old.
Maybe, but the thrust in this thread is the exact opposite. We're making fun of the people who expect it to be better than established technology and institutions, especially when they comitragically lose their life savings.
-
@sweaty_gammon Good thing I wasn't doing that, then.
-
@boomzilla I think anyone sensible would not put their life savings into something that was so volatile.
-
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@pie_flavor I dunno about you but if someone is basing the rest of their argument on an incomplete premise, you must first make sure you correct their premise?
Yes, but you're not keeping up with all of our corrections.
-
@boomzilla I've spent 5 or 6 posts re-explaining how market value works. When the same incorrect assumption about market value was mentioned. I can only correct so many things at a time. My apologies.
-
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@boomzilla I've spent 5 or 6 posts re-explaining how market value works.
Yes and it's tedious and unnecessary. No one was disputing that. One problem with cryptocurrency volatility of that price. Another is that they're really shitty as currency.
When the same incorrect assumption about market value was mentioned. I can only correct so many things at a time. My apologies.
You're not correcting anything.
-
@boomzilla said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
Yes and it's tedious and unnecessary. No one was disputing that.
Really?
@topspin said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
The consensus used to be that it's worth around $20k. I wouldn't trust the consensus too much.
@izzion said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
I mean, the root of the problem is that Bitcoin is valued at US$5,553.08 more than its intrinsic value at this point.
Oh some were.
One problem with cryptocurrency volatility of that price. Another is that they're really shitty as currency.
I've explained why on the volatility. The other claim is subjective.
@boomzilla said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
You're not correcting anything.
If you say so. I won't be responding on this thread from now on since you have taken several comments out of a context to make a gotcha and are clearly not interested in any discussion.
-
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
I won't be responding on this thread from now
We'll see.
-
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
Really?
Yes. 1,000,000,000%, and nothing you quoted in your post changed my mind at all on that. It was just discussion regarding the volatility,.
"One problem with cryptocurrency volatility of that price. Another is that they're really shitty as currency."
I've explained why on the volatility. The other claim is subjective.
Except you haven't figured out that the volatility is gigantic negative for a serious currency. And no, it's not that subjective, unless you're engaging in illegal activity. It's burdensome and slow and difficult to use.
I won't be responding on this thread from now on since you have taken several comments out of a context to make a gotcha and are clearly not interested in any discussion.
No.
-
@sweaty_gammon
Gold has intrinsic value, because you can use it for fillings (or bling bling teeth). It trades for more than that intrinsic value because people treat it as a currency, the same as Bitcon trades above its intrinsic value.Government Issued Fiat Currency doesn't have intrinsic value, other than maybe the replacement value of a piece of TP. Though it does have some basic value, because it's the only currency in which your government will accept tax repayment (try sending the IRS a chicken, or a cow, or a bitcoin...)
-
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
think people are lacking imagination on how these can be used
They don't lack imagination when it comes to abusing it
-
@pie_flavor said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@izzion Any currency is valued by confidence unless it is based on something like the Gold Standard. I am not by any means an expert in Economics but It is quite obvious that any form of currency is based on confidence.
So it is completely subjective, but the consensus is that is it worth in most exchanges ~ $5,500 is perfectly fine.
You opinion just happens to be outside of the consensus.
My money's on you being a @lucas1 alt.
But that money is in ETH so it's not a real bet anyway
-
@Rhywden said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
I think people are lacking imagination on how these can be used IMHO.
Space heaters come to mind.
Heat pumps are much more efficient, as far as I know.
(They have to be, since they do a non-zero amount of useful work in addition to the waste heat)
-
Mirror: archive.fo
-
@DCoder At least the landlord is a decent person.
-
Even my cryptocoin-loving colleague is starting to be worried about the crypto market now. I wonder if that's a sign. He said something about the cost of mining now being higher than the gains from mining and being worried about the market now being dead for further mining. I wonder if it means he'll drop his "free" house heating this winter...
-
@TimeBandit said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
On a more serious note, it can be summed up as "
I'mthemoderatorsBoomzilla too lazy to do it"
-
@Atazhaia And as a followup, right after I had made that post he came in and did another "Game over!" spiel, talking about how 85% of cryptocurrencies had been in decline for 4 weeks now and how bad the situation was. Added with a typical complaint about how the banks were sabotaging trading and how that would come back to bite them. So he still seems sure that cryptocurrencies will be a thing despite his current complaints about the situation.
-
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@izzion There are a huge number of reasons why Crypto has fallen.
At least 80 pages worth of reasons, according to the paging bar as of this post.
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
However it has been relatively stable over the last 2 months.
That is the most egregious use of the word "relatively" outside of an incest orgy.
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
Most of the the people selling coin off has ended now. The hype has ended and people are looking at sensible uses for it.
"Our currency plan never took into account people actually doing anything with it!"
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
Yeah there is going to be another hard fork
"relatively stable". There's been (as far as I can find) EIGHT hard forks between launch and April 2018: https://www.investopedia.com/tech/history-bitcoin-hard-forks/
Eight.
I remember all those times when the US dollar dipped in value, and the government responded by panicking and creating another currency eight times. They were, in order:
- US Sdollar
- US Dollar Plus
- US Dollar+ (a hard fork of the US Dollar Plus)
- US Dollar++ (a hard fork of the US Dollar Plus to avoid naming confusion)
- US DXT-Q9
- US Dollar (but not that one)
- US Cento-Penny
- US Dollar Gold (not backed by gold)
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
I think you are overselling the problem IMHO.
It's okay to oversell. But when you sell it, don't take bitcoins as payment. Those things are shit.
-
@pie_flavor said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
My money's on you being a @lucas1 alt.
That would be @GodEmperor
-
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
People have been selling for over a year and the price has been somewhat stable after everyone shorted their position.
"somewhat stable".
Bitcoin value, Nov 18th 2017 to Nov 19th, 2018
Chart of the "yucky lol-fiat US Dollar" over same period:
-
@sweaty_gammon said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@boomzilla I think anyone sensible would not put their life savings into something that was so volatile.
"relatively stable"
-
@Lorne-Kates
Although, to be fair to shitcoins, the dollar against several major commodities is fairly volatile...Milk:
Gold:
Oil:
Gasoline:
Granted, the range on those charts is like +/-50% from minimum, instead of +/- 250%, but hey.
-
@izzion That only works if you compare the dollar against a full basket of average commodities. Otherwise, you're measuring the volatility of a single commodity, not that of the dollar.
-
@topspin I also don't like speaking of "volatility" when you cut off a large part of the y-axis, thus amplifying the jitter.
-
@Rhywden said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
@topspin I also don't like speaking of "volatility" when you cut off a large part of the y-axis, thus amplifying the jitter.
Then look at the values on the Y.
Bitcoin: swinging between $7K and $17.9K (roughly, I don't feel like looking up the actual minmax)
USD: swinging between $1.22 and $1.35 (again, roughly).
If the US had the swings shitcoin had, that would be between $1.22 and $3.12!
-
@izzion said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
Milk
But at least it's relatively stable! For a few weeks, at least. In the fridge.
-
@Lorne-Kates said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
USD: swinging between $1.22 and $1.35 (again, roughly).
You can't fool me! One USD is always worth $1.00…
-
@dkf Just like Tethers!
-
@kazitor yes, they’re always worth $0.00.
-
"Bizarre"
-
@Jaloopa Every time I hear cryptocurrency mining referred to as "complex mathematics"...
I've planned to write about this elsewhere to elaborate it. More people should know it's just a glorified guessing game.
Oh, and that video presents the typical tired arguments about being "like the internet in the early days"...
-
Bitcoin
Bizarre free fall
"Bizarre"
Edit: Dammit, didn't see you already commented that under the video. Anyway, it's getting close to 4000 now...abandon
shipshit
-
@Jaloopa I like how he tries to end on a hopeful note, saying "all it would take is for one of the tech giants like Google or Apple to embrace it for the popularity to boom". As if that had a snowball's chance in hell of ever happening. "All it would take is for me to win the lottery to become rich". Yeah, not a great plan if that is what you are betting on.
Not to mention, even if they did, even if Google gave everyone free, secure wallets and a not crap interface (so we're already stretching credibility), every other problem with Bitcoin would still make it useless.
-
@DCoder said in A fool and his not-really-money are soon parted:
This is a lot less important than the Bitfinex thing above, but it deserves to be immortalized nonetheless:
Source: /r/bitcoin
Seeing as Bitcoin is now around $4400, how did it go with that cutting off the dick promise? Also, seems I'm not the only one remembering that either.
Well, at least he kept going strong after that post!
Bitcoin will be the currency for the new generation!
And you should give him all your money if you don't invest it now, because uninvested money will be lost.
And his faith in Bitcoin is still going strong as of today!
Oh...
-
Well, his handle kind of says it all:
Never again 646
-
What an amusing dumbass.