# TZ Coordinates ???

• I have a table of timezone information, and one of the fields in the table is a numeric coordinate. The numbers are integers and range from -1363305 for Pacific/Honolulu to 1748357 for Asia/Tokyo.
Europe/London is second-highest at 510985.
Antarctica/South_Pole is -9000.
Africa/Gaborone is the closest to zero with a coordinate of 10.

What is the significance of this coordinate data? It doesn't appear to be a difference in seconds from UTC, nor does it appear to be longitudinal. I can't think of anything else that would seem to make sense.

I can list more specific examples upon request, but with ~400 entries, I don't want to try to drop the whole table into a post.

• @djls45 said in TZ Coordinates :

-1363305 for Pacific/Honolulu

21.3069° N, 157.8583° W

1748357 for Asia/Tokyo.

35.6895° N, 139.6917° E

Europe/London is second-highest at 510985.

51.5074° N, 0.1278° W

Antarctica/South_Pole is -9000.

90.0° S, 0° E

Africa/Gaborone is the closest to zero with a coordinate of 10.

24.6282° S, 25.9231° E

huh..... nope. i see no correlation off just these results.

/me had been thinking maybe some weird format of bitpacking the coordinates into a single field (because that is smrt.....(it isn't))

• @djls45 Are you sure it's a co-ordinate and not just an ID?

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe/London - +513030-0000731

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctica/South_Pole - -9000+00000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa/Gaborone - -2439+02555

Those look really close to their tz database format lat/lon coordinates:

1. Latitude and longitude of the zone's principal location
in ISO 6709 sign-degrees-minutes-seconds format,
either +-DDMM+-DDDMM or +-DDMMSS+-DDDMMSS,

Except for Gaborone. Whose lat and lon are very similar, which makes me think someone calculated (-2439) + 2555, or something similar...

• Ah-ha!

@djls45 said in TZ Coordinates :

range from -1363305 for Pacific/Honolulu

• @RaceProUK said in TZ Coordinates :

@djls45 Are you sure it's a co-ordinate and not just an ID?

The field name is TZ_COORDS, so no, I'm pretty sure it's (supposed to be) coordinates.

• @Maciejasjmj Ok, that makes a stupid sort of sense. Somehow the formatted latitude and longitude values got treated as individual numbers and summed together.

Thanks for helping me figure this out.

• @djls45 and it's also apparently using an outdated tz database (the value for London matches the 2006 one, but not the 2016 one).

Either way, just move it to Sidebar WTF...

• @djls45 said in TZ Coordinates :

Somehow the formatted latitude and longitude values got treated as individual numbers and summed together.

and that's why combining fields like that are dumb

it's also why assuming fields are numberic and math can be applied is dum

/me glares at EXCEL which regularly does that to any field that looks like it might be a number if you squint and tilt your head juuuuust right.

• @accalia
Ok, so let's upload my UPCs... `801020304058`
: `8.010203E+11` fuck you, have a nice day.

• @accalia said in TZ Coordinates :

@djls45 said in TZ Coordinates :

Somehow the formatted latitude and longitude values got treated as individual numbers and summed together.

and that's why combining fields like that are dumb

it's also why assuming fields are numberic and math can be applied is dum

/me glares at EXCEL which regularly does that to any field that looks like it might be a number if you squint and tilt your head juuuuust right.

... including ending with an Arabic numeral, regardless of other characters in the field.

• @accalia This is especially fun with published scientific data:

Then again, Excel ain't exactly scientific software.

• @MZH said in TZ Coordinates :

Then again, Excel ain't exactly scientificFit for ANY use software.

FTFY

• @accalia said in TZ Coordinates :

numberic

I approve this word.

• @accalia said in TZ Coordinates :

it's also why assuming fields are numberic and math can be applied is dum

/me glares at EXCEL which regularly does that to any field that looks like it might be a number if you squint and tilt your head juuuuust right.

It's just treating your data excelently. (Brought to you by the brillant devs at Microsoft.)

• @djls45 said in TZ Coordinates :

Antarctica/South_Pole is -9000.

• @accalia said in TZ Coordinates :

@djls45 said in TZ Coordinates :

Somehow the formatted latitude and longitude values got treated as individual numbers and summed together.

and that's why combining fields like that are dumb

it's also why assuming fields are numberic and math can be applied is dum

/me glares at EXCEL which regularly does that to any field that looks like it might be a number if you squint and tilt your head juuuuust right.

I broke my teeth on Lotus 1-2-3, so I always prepend a `'` when I have a number that should be interpreted as text. Never had any problems, except when my onion goes stale.

• @Mikael_Svahnberg said in TZ Coordinates :

@accalia said in TZ Coordinates :

@djls45 said in TZ Coordinates :

Somehow the formatted latitude and longitude values got treated as individual numbers and summed together.

and that's why combining fields like that are dumb

it's also why assuming fields are numberic and math can be applied is dum

/me glares at EXCEL which regularly does that to any field that looks like it might be a number if you squint and tilt your head juuuuust right.

I broke my teeth on Lotus 1-2-3, so I always prepend a `'` when I have a number that should be interpreted as text. Never had any problems, except when my onion goes stale.

that's nice.

now what about that CSV file you want to manipulate? the one with thousands of rows and hundreds of columns of numbers and number-like values? the one you didn't create, and need to manipulate before you feed it into a data importer.

• @accalia Roll your own in C# with your favourite NuGet package?

Semi-serious suggestion, btw.

• @RaceProUK said in TZ Coordinates :

Semi-serious suggestion, btw.

write a program to programatically format data from a oneoff data import?

i ain't getting paid for that shit.

• @accalia preprocess with `awk`?

... or set the column formats during the import to excel.

• @accalia said in TZ Coordinates :

write a program to programatically format data from a oneoff data import?
i ain't getting paid for that shit.

Paging @cartman82 for outsourcing purposes!

• @accalia said in TZ Coordinates :

now what about that CSV file you want to manipulate? the one with thousands of rows and hundreds of columns of numbers and number-like values? the one you didn't create, and need to manipulate before you feed it into a data importer.

Is Google Refine still a thing? I think it's still around in some form.

: It's called OpenRefine now.

• @accalia `awk`

• @PleegWat said in TZ Coordinates :

@accalia `awk`

you mena i need to teach AWK to the beancounters?

they also take these exports and sometimes massage them before i get them..... and good luck getting them ot understand ANYTHING other than excel

• @PleegWat said in TZ Coordinates :

@accalia `awk`

I'm sure I could write a pretty fancy "read this file and make all number like entries safe for Excel" application in a language I know far faster than I could learn enough awk to do the same thing

• @accalia said in TZ Coordinates :

you mena i need to teach AWK to the beancounters?

Your job involves both beancounters and excel? :shudder:

• @cvi said in TZ Coordinates :

@accalia said in TZ Coordinates :

you mena i need to teach AWK to the beancounters?

Your job involves both beancounters and excel? :shudder:

yeah..... some days the words "kill me now" almost force their way past my lips, but i never say them, i just buy a bottle of jack and use it to wash my teeth.

• @accalia said in TZ Coordinates :

@cvi said in TZ Coordinates :

@accalia said in TZ Coordinates :

you mena i need to teach AWK to the beancounters?

Your job involves both beancounters and excel? :shudder:

yeah..... some days the words "kill me now" almost force their way past my lips, but i never say them, i just buy a bottle of jack and use it to wash my teeth.

The number of images this conjures up in my head! But I know it's just my onion talking...

• @cvi said in TZ Coordinates :

Your job involves both beancounters and excel? :shudder:

I'm not sure it can involve beancounters without also involving Excel.

• @loopback0 said in TZ Coordinates :

@cvi said in TZ Coordinates :

Your job involves both beancounters and excel? :shudder:

I'm not sure it can involve beancounters without also involving Excel.

• @accalia said in TZ Coordinates :

@PleegWat said in TZ Coordinates :

@accalia `awk`

you mena i need to teach AWK to the beancounters?

they also take these exports and sometimes massage them before i get them..... and good luck getting them ot understand ANYTHING other than excel

Also, if I may put on my best @blakeyrat-persona, if you deliver anything to users that require any more complex operation than "open", then youe're , TR, and should be bludgeoned to death with a semicolon!

• @Mikael_Svahnberg said in TZ Coordinates :

if I may put on my best @blakeyrat-persona

• @accalia said in TZ Coordinates :

@PleegWat said in TZ Coordinates :

@accalia `awk`

you mena i need to teach AWK to the beancounters?

they also take these exports and sometimes massage them before i get them..... and good luck getting them ot understand ANYTHING other than excel

I didn't realize this involved other people doing it.

• @PleegWat said in TZ Coordinates :

@accalia said in TZ Coordinates :

@PleegWat said in TZ Coordinates :

@accalia `awk`

you mena i need to teach AWK to the beancounters?

they also take these exports and sometimes massage them before i get them..... and good luck getting them ot understand ANYTHING other than excel

I didn't realize this involved other people doing it.

well given that for various rasins procreation isn't going to be possible with me, I think at this point it's really essential for other people to be doing it.

• @accalia said in TZ Coordinates :

a bottle of jack and use it to wash my teeth.

Cause when you leave for the night you ain't coming back?

• @hungrier said in TZ Coordinates :

@accalia said in TZ Coordinates :

a bottle of jack and use it to wash my teeth.

Cause when you leave for the night you ain't coming back?

hell to the yes.

• @MZH said in TZ Coordinates :

Then again, Excel ain't exactly scientific software.

I've worked with real scientists, and you're wrong.

• @dkf Well, I am a real scientist and ... you're not wrong. Not as bad as it could be here, since my company will actually pay for Matlab/Mathematica licences.

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