The New PC: Populist Correctness
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@antiquarian said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Meh. If you're willing to just listen to the radio and
not willing to put forth any effort to explore alternativesare afraid of appropriating a culture, you deserve what you get.FTFY
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@Maciejasjmj said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Which is a lie too, because it wasn't really Polish soil during WW2.
By that logic Mickiewicz and Słowacki weren't Polish either
Also - if back in early 19th century there was such a thing as citizenship, they would most likely have Russian passports.
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@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@Rhywden you'd be surprised how hard it is to comb through four months of articles on a very controversial topic.
Five minutes in, and I only found an article debunking the one I was talking about. http://opinie.wp.pl/marcin-makowski-polskie-obozy-koncentracyjne-po-wojnie-czyli-cyniczna-zabawa-historia-6082977260069505a
That's nice. And the newspaper you were talking about is...?
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@Rhywden you'd be surprised how hard it is to comb through four months of articles on a very controversial topic. Five minutes in, and I only found an article debunking the one I was talking about.
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@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@Rhywden you'd be surprised how hard it is to comb through four months of articles on a very controversial topic. Five minutes in, and I only found an article debunking the one I was talking about.
The supposedly reputable newspaper making this controversial claim, my dear.
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@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Five minutes in, and I only found an article debunking the one I was talking about. http://opinie.wp.pl/marcin-makowski-polskie-obozy-koncentracyjne-po-wojnie-czyli-cyniczna-zabawa-historia-6082977260069505a
Oh yeah, another funny thing about how Poles demand that German camps are called German and not Nazi because it was Germans that operated them, but anything wrong that happened in Poland between '45 and '89 was just "communist".
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@Maciejasjmj said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Five minutes in, and I only found an article debunking the one I was talking about. http://opinie.wp.pl/marcin-makowski-polskie-obozy-koncentracyjne-po-wojnie-czyli-cyniczna-zabawa-historia-6082977260069505a
Oh yeah, another funny thing about how Poles demand that German camps are called German and not Nazi because it was Germans that operated them, but anything wrong that happened in Poland between '45 and '89 was just "communist".
That wasn't really Polish soil at the time, it was Russian!
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@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Five minutes in, and I only found an article debunking the one I was talking about.
The article which was actually a book:
Właśnie tak rozumiem zamieszanie wokół książki reportera Marka Łuszczyny, pt. „Mała zbrodnia. Polskie obozy koncentracyjne”. Autor stawia w niej tezę, że co prawda nie w trakcie, ale zaraz po wojnie istniały nad Wisłą „polskie obozy koncentracyjne”.
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@Maciejasjmj said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Five minutes in, and I only found an article debunking the one I was talking about. http://opinie.wp.pl/marcin-makowski-polskie-obozy-koncentracyjne-po-wojnie-czyli-cyniczna-zabawa-historia-6082977260069505a
Oh yeah, another funny thing about how Poles demand that German camps are called German and not Nazi because it was Germans that operated them, but anything wrong that happened in Poland between '45 and '89 was just "communist".
Well, Germany was independent country in years 1918-1945. Nazi were just a political party. Do you also insist on calling our current government Pisian and not Polish?
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@asdf said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Trump is currently - very slowly - learning that.
Hah!
Nope.
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@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Well, Germany was independent country in years 1918-1945. Nazi were just a political party.
How does it matter? It's not like the communists had absolutely zero support in the country. Sure the instructions came from the East, but the Party was still made of Poles, and it's not like none of them at all supported the rule. Except they're just sweeped under the rug these days as Not True Poles, while Germans - of which those who actually elected the Nazis into the government are long dead anyway - are expected to own up to every single bullet shot.
@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Do you also insist on calling our current government Pisian and not Polish?
As if the same thing wasn't happening for 8 years before that one...
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@e4tmyl33t said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Or a culture full of princes just waiting to get out with their massive fortunes.
The aptly-named Irregular Webcomic is an eclectic mix of several different very silly storylines, told through scenes that the author sets up (mostly) with Legos, then photographs them and adds speech bubbles to the result.
One of the more ridiculous storylines involves the Nigerian Finance Minister. He's always trying very dilligently to email people who would be willing to help with the financial crises his government is in, and he can never understand why everyone thinks it's just a ridiculous scam and doesn't want to help... :D
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@Onyx said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
It's perfectly in line with what 20th century did to derivative works of art.
Are you talking about DCMA crap? Well, eh, there's that, but then there's the invention of the sampler, which did the opposite.
Which gives me a chance to link this, which I think is both pertinent, and just cool at the same time:
To me, this feels like Papyrus Watch in that there's a legitimate point being made, but it's unrecognizable and/or unimportant to the layman.
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@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@Maciejasjmj said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Which is a lie too, because it wasn't really Polish soil during WW2.
By that logic Mickiewicz and Słowacki weren't Polish either
Also - if back in early 19th century there was such a thing as citizenship, they would most likely have Russian passports.
There certainly was such a thing as citizenship back then, though each country likely handled it very differently. Even ancient Rome had a concept of citizenship wherein citizens of Rome had rights that mere subjects of Rome did not have. The US Constitution granted Congress the power to grant citizenship. And so on.
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@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Which is a lie too, because it wasn't really Polish soil during WW2.
*sigh*
For someone who usually hates forced political correctness, you seem awfully keen on forcing me to word things a particular way now that you are suddenly the one who's offended. Which, ironically, brings us back to the topic of this thread.
Does German-owned Polish-language newspaper count?
Not unless the author was German as well, since publishers usually aren't involved in the day-to-day business.
(Also, we're still waiting for the source.)
BTW: I vaguely remember a similar outrage a few years ago when a German WW II drama dared to paint some members of the Polish resistance as anti-Semites as well. Which is, to the best of my knowledge, historically accurate. Despite the fact that the same film clearly showed the atrocities committed by Germans during the war and also showed other Polish characters helping a Jew escape, the producers of the movie were heavily attacked by the Polish press.
If you say something in a way that's way easier to interpret wrong than to interpret right, and then outrage arises because people kept interpreting it wrong, it's your damn fault and you deserve everything you get. There's nothing in the words "Polish death camps" that implies anything else than Polish.
I'd rather say you are particularly sensitive in that regard, since some Poles love to ignore every historical fact that doesn't fit their narrative of Poland as the eternal victim.
Again, since you're usually not a big fan of PC, I'd like to call you on your double standards here and refer you to the very first post on this thread.
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@Yamikuronue said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
psst... it's black people. Many black people are offended by white dreads.
@Yamikuronue said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
To a lot of us, white dreads are a final "fuck you, even the little bit of your own culture you kept is mine now".
PSST. You ain't black.
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@loopback0 I am, actually.
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@loopback0 said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@Yamikuronue said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
psst... it's black people. Many black people are offended by white dreads.
@Yamikuronue said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
To a lot of us, white dreads are a final "fuck you, even the little bit of your own culture you kept is mine now".
PSST. You ain't black.
This thread has made me want to honor my Celtic and Viking ancestors by growing dreadlocks.
Now to convince my wife that this is a Desirable Thing™ or she might kill the whole project …
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@asdf said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
For someone who usually hates forced political correctness, you seem awfully keen on forcing me to word things a particular way now that you are suddenly the one who's offended.
Kinda playing devil's advocate here. The death camp thing is more reasonable than your average language policing. It's kinda like that time in Guacamole thread when I played devil's advocate for Catholic Church and their exclusion of gays, despite personally being all for gay rights.
@asdf said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Does German-owned Polish-language newspaper count?
Not unless the author was German as well, since publishers usually aren't involved in the day-to-day business.
Then I have none because I can't read German.
@asdf said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
(Also, we're still waiting for the source.)
Still working on it.
@asdf said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
BTW: I vaguely remember a similar outrage a few years ago when a German WW II drama dared to paint some members of the Polish resistance as anti-Semites as well. Which is, to the best of my knowledge, historically accurate.
Personally, I couldn't care less. After all, I'm less than 90 years old, so I couldn't possibly know what people were like in AK. Unlike the death camp thing, which is well documented as German nazi invention so there's literally no room for doubt.
@asdf said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
I'd rather say you are particularly sensitive in that regard
Less sensitive than average Pole. But yes, more sensitive than average Earthian.
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@Maciejasjmj said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@Maciejasjmj people aren't buildings.
So it's okay if they just claim they identify as Polish?
As long as they can say it in Polish.
@Maciejasjmj said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
The article which was actually a book:
No, it was an article. On the same subject and with same thesis as that book, but it was an article on popular newspaper's website.
@Maciejasjmj said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
How does it matter? It's not like the communists had absolutely zero support in the country. Sure the instructions came from the East, but the Party was still made of Poles, and it's not like none of them at all supported the rule. Except they're just sweeped under the rug these days as Not True Poles, while Germans - of which those who actually elected the Nazis into the government are long dead anyway - are expected to own up to every single bullet shot.
Bottom line is, Nazi Germany was more German than Commie Poland was Polish. And unlike Jews, I understand everyone involved in WW2 is long dead and I don't want anyone to face consequences anymore. I just want people to be honest and use honest words. Sex is defined by chromosome. Black lives matter exactly as much as white and yellow and blue lives. Android is barely related to desktop Linux. Death camps were made by German Nazis (or just Nazis for short - I have no problem with people calling it just that, unless they specifically say "not German").
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@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
As far as I know, lying is universally accepted as morally wrong.
Nope. Not unconditionally.
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@Yamikuronue said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@loopback0 I am, actually.
Wait, what? Then who's the very caucasian-looking woman in the photo that ends up on all of the TDWTF articles posted under your byline?
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@aliceif ask someone if lying is bad and they will reflexively say "no". Also note that most arguments for when lying is acceptable try to separate "white lies" from unconditionally wrong "black lies", or try to show that some non-truths aren't really lies.
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@masonwheeler Me.
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@Yamikuronue inb4 Pocahontas.
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@Yamikuronue OK, so at this point I'm about as confused as a snake that grows legs...
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@masonwheeler said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@Yamikuronue OK, so at this point I'm about as confused as a snake that grows legs...
This is the point I got stuck. I couldn't think of a response that didn't make me sound like I was intentionally being a cunt.
I didn't even think that dreads were particularly black people things.
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@loopback0 said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
This is the point I got stuck. I couldn't think of a response that didn't make me sound like I was intentionally being a cunt.
I feel like you are asking for someone else to do it? Just go find a Sean King meme, or something with Rachel Dolezal.
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@Polygeekery said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
I feel like you are asking for someone else to do it?
No because that'd doom this topic to The Garage™ which wouldn't help. If I wanted someone to be a cunt then I'd have no problem being that cunt.
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@masonwheeler I don't think it would be productive to discuss here. Feel free to ask me in private.
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@loopback0 said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
I didn't even think that dreads were particularly black people things.
Probably because they aren't.
@abarker said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@Yamikuronue said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
To a lot of us, white dreads are a final "fuck you, even the little bit of your own culture you kept is mine now".
Hate to break it to you, but dreadlocks are not an instance of cultural appropriation. Historical evidence of dreadlocks comes from many different cultures, including the the Celts, Vikings, Ancient Egyptians, Ancient Greeks, and perhaps even the Aztecs.
Basically, dreadlocks don't belong to any one race.
http://www.dreadlocks.org/the-history-of-dreadlocks/
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@Yamikuronue said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
I don't think it would be productive to discuss here.
Why? Do you think that would start a flamewar or something?
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@masonwheeler said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Wait, what? Then who's the very caucasian-looking woman in the photo that ends up on all of the TDWTF articles posted under your byline?
Racial appropriation.
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Back on topic:
Mature crowd which doesn't succumb to the Left's angry screeching in-deed.
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@Maciejasjmj said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
So now people actually pay for newgrounds trash? Lovely.
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@Yamikuronue said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
To a lot of us, white dreads are a final "fuck you, even the little bit of your own culture you kept is mine now".
I think that's at the root of the problem. Culture is not something you get to (or even want to) "keep," and the sooner everyone--of all races and backgrounds--divests themselves of that horrible notion, the better.
At its root, culture is ideas and the way those ideas interact with one another. You can either keep an idea to yourself, or you can share it, but trying to have it both ways creates all sorts of problems. (See Disney's meddling with US copyright law for one of the more extreme examples.)
Culture only works by share-and-share-alike, with everyone grabbing bits and incorporating them into new creations. When someone tries to say "stop, you can't have that!" the whole process breaks down.
So yes, white people (and everyone else) has every right to "appropriate" interesting bits from black culture. And black people have every right to "appropriate" interesting bits from their cultures in return, and everyone ends up enriched by the process. I honestly do not understand what anybody finds objectionable about this. That's how it's always worked since the dawn of civilization, because it works.
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@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Rightwing snowflakes are offended by everything from Kermit
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@asdf said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Trump is currently - very slowly - learning that.
cite please
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@flabdablet said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@asdf said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Trump is currently - very slowly - learning
that.cite please
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@Polygeekery said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@Maciejasjmj said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
> some white-guy-with-acoustic-guitar music.
Visibly annoys me. I have a visceral hatred of it.
Coming right up.
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@flabdablet I have to say, acoustic guitars aren't that annoying but the ukuleles and xylophones coupled with folksy choral voices have to stop OR SO HELP ME I WILL FLY TO SILICON VALLEY JUST SO I CAN PERSONALLY STRANGLE THE MARKETING PERSON IN CHARGE OF THE ADS FOR THIS BULLSHIT IPHONE APP
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@Maciejasjmj said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Which is a lie too, because it wasn't really Polish soil during WW2.
By that logic Mickiewicz and Słowacki weren't Polish either
Hey, don't give the school kids false hope!
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@Rhywden said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Does German-owned Polish-language newspaper count? Because recently I've seen an article in German-owned Polish-language newspaper how Polish death camps were truly Polish (as in established and administered directly by Polish govt), referring to how Polish People's Republic adapted them to their own goals.
Then it shouldn't be too hard to post a link if it was recently.
IIRC, the whole outrage about "Polish concentration camps" is about the way this sentence can be interpreted. You might not know this, but a lot of people do believe that concentration camps were a Polish thing. I hope you can understand the sentiment, especially since it's easy to write "German camps in Poland or whatever". Here's a link for you:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/"Polish_death_camp"_controversy
It's infuriating also because it were in large part Poles that were exterminated there:
Almost 2 million people, a little more than 1/3 of the amount of Jews that died there.
@asdf, I'm not trying to state that it's a purposeful action on your part, to try and shift the blame in the popular perception. However, it could have such a result, so why not ask educated people (as journalists are, right?) to write a term the proper way?
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@Maciejasjmj said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Five minutes in, and I only found an article debunking the one I was talking about. http://opinie.wp.pl/marcin-makowski-polskie-obozy-koncentracyjne-po-wojnie-czyli-cyniczna-zabawa-historia-6082977260069505a
Oh yeah, another funny thing about how Poles demand that German camps are called German and not Nazi because it was Germans that operated them, but anything wrong that happened in Poland between '45 and '89 was just "communist".
Well, I usually understand that as "Polish communists did that", not "Russian communists". Are there really people who use it not understanding that it was still a Polish government all this time?
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@Maciejasjmj said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Five minutes in, and I only found an article debunking the one I was talking about.
The article which was actually a book:
Właśnie tak rozumiem zamieszanie wokół książki reportera Marka Łuszczyny, pt. „Mała zbrodnia. Polskie obozy koncentracyjne”. Autor stawia w niej tezę, że co prawda nie w trakcie, ale zaraz po wojnie istniały nad Wisłą „polskie obozy koncentracyjne”.
For all non-Polish speakers out there: the claim was actually that there were literally Polish concentration camps after the war.
That's an interesting claim.
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@bb36e said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
ukuleles and xylophones coupled with folksy choral voices
Coming right up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsTKuWEz6mg
With bonus handbells!
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@Gąska said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
@asdf said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
BTW: I vaguely remember a similar outrage a few years ago when a German WW II drama dared to paint some members of the Polish resistance as anti-Semites as well. Which is, to the best of my knowledge, historically accurate.
Personally, I couldn't care less. After all, I'm less than 90 years old, so I couldn't possibly know what people were like in AK. Unlike the death camp thing, which is well documented as German nazi invention so there's literally no room for doubt.
Well, you'd be surprised.
Especially:
https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t553062/
Sure, it's ridiculous.
@asdf said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
I'd rather say you are particularly sensitive in that regard
Less sensitive than average Pole. But yes, more sensitive than average Earthian.
That's where @asdf struck gold. We (as a nation) do like to underline our status of eternal victims.
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@Maciejasjmj said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
Yes, but that requires involvement. If you just listen to whatever's on the radio, TV or in the ads, you're pretty much exposed to pop and maybe some white-guy-with-acoustic-guitar music.
This seems like a local problem of yours:
- 8 News/Talk
- 7 Religious
- 5 Sports
- 5 Spanish
- 4 News
- 4 Hot AC
- 4 Country
- 4 Asian
- 4 Adult Contemporary
- 3 Variety
- 3 Urban Contemporary
- 3 Top-40
- 3 Regional Mexican
- 3 Public Radio
- 3 Hip Hop
- 2 Spanish Christian
- 2 Gospel Music
- 2 Classic Rock
- 2 Classic Hits
- 2 Classical
- 2 Christian Contemporary
- 2 Alternative
- 1 Tropical
- 1 Spanish Pop
- 1 Rock
- 1 Jazz
- 1 International
- 1 College
- 1 Business News
- 1 Adult Hits
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@bb36e said in The New PC: Populist Correctness:
have to say, acoustic guitars aren't that annoying but the ukuleles and xylophones coupled with folksy choral voices have to stop OR SO HELP ME I WILL FLY TO SILICON VALLEY JUST SO I CAN PERSONALLY STRANGLE THE MARKETING PERSON IN CHARGE OF THE ADS FOR THIS BULLSHIT IPHONE APP
Uke better.
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@boomzilla Or learn to do all of that without overdubs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gyxeXW_2T8