Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats
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@Groaner said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
How often does the gas tank need maintenance?
Modern cars put the fuel pump in the gas tank. In theory you should change it eventually, even though it's no longer listed in the maintenance schedule. In a lot of cars, that's an hour or more's work because you have to jack the car up and take the tank off.
My car's got a hatch in the floor, but I've read what's involved and it's still kind of time-consuming.
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@Fox said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
My dad went through three in a year.
That's not typical, though.
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@dkf said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
If the shift lever isn't falling through the floor and it isn't full of raw fish
I once drove in someone's VB Bug-dune buggy conversion. The floor was so low there was a hole in it for one of the driveshaft's universal joints. By design!
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@Luhmann said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
Or proper fluid unites?
No, I don't use those upstart units. But "multiply by four" is close enough for this conversation, anyway, which shows him paying about twice as much per whatever unit volume, with about 4x the tax burden.
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@mott555 said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
Make an electric vehicle with a portable fusion reactor as a power source and then I'll be very interested.
Or maybe a hydrogen fuel cell that can be swapped out or topped off in a couple of minutes.
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@FrostCat said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
about twice as much per whatever unit volume, with about 4x the tax burden
Converting US$1.89 per (US) gallon to real Queen's money and proper science units: US$1.89 is AU$2.45, and a US gallon is 3.8 litres, so that works out to AU64c/litre. I'm paying closer to AU$1.30, of which about 50c is tax, so even without any tax at all I'd be paying 25% more than you, you gas-guzzling carbon-farting free-riding state-subsidized welfare queen.
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@FrostCat said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
@flabdablet said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
Depend what you mean by "excessive".
Considering the gas station I drove by this morning wanted $1.89 for a gallon, I'd say "what @flabdablet pays in taxes" is excessive.
And that's before we even consider exchange rates.
I pay almost a dollar more for 93 octane around here.
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@flabdablet said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
you gas-guzzling carbon-farting free-riding state-subsidized welfare queen.
Looks like somebody's got a case of the Mondays!
And is also jealous.
Texas gas tax is 20.1375 cents per gallon, in addition to the 18.4 cpg federal tax mentioned above.
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@Groaner said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
I pay almost a dollar more for 93 octane around here.
The price delta in Dallas is around 30-40 cents over 87.
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@flabdablet said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
gas-guzzling
It would cost me at least $1200 to replace the two catalytic converters I haven't already done. That will never make economic sense[1], even with gas prices at the level of some European countries (I thought I read once that Spain's price is equivalent something like $8/gallon), so the state will just have to suffer from the extra 2-3 ppm of NOx compounds my car might generate. Nearly-infinite more bang for the buck would be for the local school districts to fix their buses to not spew black clouds out the tailpipe.
[1] especially since I'll probably be replacing the car in a year or less with something much newer.
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@FrostCat said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
Looks like somebody's got a case of the Mondays!
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@FrostCat said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
Hopefully it would involve two big mad-science-movie-type levers that you use to crank the belt in one direction or the other.
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@FrostCat said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
Why would you ever want to do that? I mean, outside of a few specialized situations.
Those specialized situations are already covered by the "1/low" and (optionally) "2" on the shifter.
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@blakeyrat said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
@FrostCat said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
Why would you ever want to do that? I mean, outside of a few specialized situations.
Those specialized situations are already covered by the "1/low" and (optionally) "2" on the shifter.
Well, yes, that's how you'd do the shifting. But it's pretty rare that you'd ever actually bother doing it.
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@HardwareGeek said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
@Luhmann said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
proper fluid unites
When the mommy fluid and the daddy fluid love each other very much, ...
Sometimes explosions occur of various intensities and energy outputs!
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@bb36e that fucker's pretty happy for getting such a reminder. Frankly that toaster should look something like this:
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@bb36e said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
Oh doG. We CANNOT allow our marketing dept see that. They will make that the next must-have feature. Oh wait, we stopped selling "stuff". Might be safe...
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@FrostCat said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
Going to be a long time, though, before such options are widespread. Nobody in an apartment, for example, is likely to be able to install a home charger. I know where there're a few public chargers near me, but the closest one is about 3 miles away.
Are you familiar with tipping-point theory and the S-curve model of new technology adoption? It's going to be a lot less of a long time than you think.
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@dkf said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
There's never enough of those.
They're not even very expensive!
Hilariously, all the "related items" were knives. Just because I was searching for "knife switch"es doesn't mean I want to look at actual knives (just then).
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@izzion said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
@boomzilla said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
It's currently costing me $1.30 a litre, 12 cents of which is GST (which has replaced all other forms of sales tax) and 40 cents is fuel excise.
That sounds excessive. Not far off what I pay per gallon, so roughly four times the amount.
I didn't realize you lived in a left coast hell hole. Here in the glorious center of the US, we pay $0.50-$0.60 per gallon (so, around $0.15 a litre) for gas excise / sales taxes.
That's about the same as my estimate. Is math different there?
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@masonwheeler said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
Are you familiar with tipping-point theory and the S-curve model of new technology adoption? It's going to be a lot less of a long time than you think.
Mmm--hmm. You go ask the landlord if you can wire up a 440V charger in front of your apartment. Then imagine what happens if you decide to move a year later.
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@FrostCat said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
@boomzilla said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
We looked at our expected mileage and the difference in car price and it just made no sense.
Even with the Federal tax credit?
Probably. It's been a few years.
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@FrostCat said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
Mmm--hmm. You go ask the landlord if you can wire up a 440V charger in front of your apartment. Then imagine what happens if you decide to move a year later.
You're missing the point: I won't have to. The landlord will do it himself once he starts losing business because he doesn't have one and the prospective renter has an EV. Once his competitor across town puts in a charging station, it's all over.
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@masonwheeler said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
Are you familiar with tipping-point theory and the S-curve model of new technology adoption? It's going to be a lot less of a long time than you think.
Like...10 years away, perhaps?
Though I'm not sure what sort of transformative technology is going to change parking garages. And the free public charging stuff can't survive beyond the EV gimmick stage.
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@boomzilla said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
Though I'm not sure what sort of transformative technology is going to change parking garages. And the free public charging stuff can't survive beyond the EV gimmick stage.
...and this is why revolutionary technology keeps catching people by surprise: most people look at the thing that's about to take over the world, see how tiny it is, and say "oh, it's just a gimmick," because they don't understand tipping points and the S curve.
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@masonwheeler said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
@FrostCat said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
Mmm--hmm. You go ask the landlord if you can wire up a 440V charger in front of your apartment. Then imagine what happens if you decide to move a year later.
You're missing the point: I won't have to. The landlord will do it himself once he starts losing business because he doesn't have one and the prospective renter has an EV. Once his competitor across town puts in a charging station, it's all over.
LOL. The vast majority of apartments in my city are owned by two companies, neither of whom does anything that involves spending money, especially the kind of money required to install a hundred thousand EV recharging ports in the few apartments that do have garages.
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@boomzilla
No, my reading comprehension is just fail, I read the OP as $1.30/L in taxes.
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@masonwheeler said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
You're missing the point: I won't have to. The landlord will do it himself once he starts losing business because he doesn't have one and the prospective renter has an EV. Once his competitor across town puts in a charging station, it's all over.
ROFL sure. Not until we're much farther along that S curve.
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@boomzilla said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
Though I'm not sure what sort of transformative technology is going to change parking garages
Chargers in every spot, I assume. Or at least in a bunch of 'em. Assuming there's room.
@boomzilla said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
And the free public charging stuff can't survive beyond the EV gimmick stage.
AIUI that's already underway--there's a payment interface, probably via a membership or maybe you swipe your credit card. Maybe at lunch today I'll drive past the Walgreens up the street that's got a charger and see what it does.
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@masonwheeler I'm still waiting for someone to say how much it actually costs to charge a car. Let's say a Tesla with 20 miles left on it, if I'm _not using a free Tesla station.
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@mott555 said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
neither of whom does anything that involves spending money
That's, I believe, the typical case.
Plus, I'm now considering places like Boston, that are chock full of ancient triple-deckers that have been converted into 3 or 6 apartments. When I lived there, in the 90s, it seemed like the dominant ownership model was "a small businessman, maybe whose primary business is a garage, who owns a dozen buildings". And again, who follows the "not going to do anything that involves spending money" line...or who doesn't even have a parking lot anyway, and expects the tenants to park in the street.
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@masonwheeler said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
...and this is why revolutionary technology keeps catching people by surprise: most people look at the thing that's about to take over the world, see how tiny it is, and say "oh, it's just a gimmick," because they don't understand tipping points and the S curve.
Except for all of the flying car technologies that remain gimmicks. No, but you don't seem to have understood my post. I suspect that electric vehicles will eventually become practical replacements for cars when we have a breakthrough in capacitors.
But if a lot of people have them, then free public chargers will go away.
Who's not seeing the revolution now?
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@FrostCat or home owners without a garage. Basically we'll want something similarly convenient (and energy dense) to gasoline. We could get by with shitty recharge times, but we shouldn't pretend that we're improving standards of living when we do so.
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@boomzilla said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
@FrostCat or home owners without a garage. Basically we'll want something similarly convenient (and energy dense) to gasoline. We could get by with shitty recharge times, but we shouldn't pretend that we're improving standards of living when we do so.
You're still missing the point: the recharge times are only bad when you're tied to the pump. When you can plug your car in and walk away, that in and of itself is an improvement to the standard of living.
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@masonwheeler said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
You're still missing the point
No, I don't think I am, because the recharge time is irrelevant where there's no charger.
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@masonwheeler said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
most people look at the thing that's about to take over the world, see how tiny it is, and say "oh, it's just a gimmick," because they don't understand tipping points and the S curve.
Or because many things are predicted to take over the world, but almost none of them actually get anywhere near the tipping point, so the default assumption is that this one won't, either.
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@masonwheeler said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
When you can plug your car in and walk away
Isn't that exactly what @boomzilla and @FrostCat are saying won't just happen? If you don't have a recharge point within walking distance of your home you can't recharge overnight. If the city isn't providing free recharge points then you either need a garage or a parking space close enough to run a cable out from your house.
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@Jaloopa said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
If the city isn't providing free recharge points
Or even paid ones. Although I'm still waiting to hear a reasonable cost estimate.
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@masonwheeler said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
@boomzilla said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
@FrostCat or home owners without a garage. Basically we'll want something similarly convenient (and energy dense) to gasoline. We could get by with shitty recharge times, but we shouldn't pretend that we're improving standards of living when we do so.
You're still missing the point: the recharge times are only bad when you're tied to the pump. When you can plug your car in and walk away, that in and of itself is an improvement to the standard of living.
And you want to magically assume that's always convenient. If you live the kind of life style that is compatible, cool. But that doesn't mean anyone else does or wants to.
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@FrostCat The Tesla model S has 60 - 90 kWh battery packs. Electric costs probably vary wildly but I've found an estimate of 13.8p/kWh on standard tariffs in the UK, or about half that on nighttime rates (7.2p). Tesla state the battery charging is 92% efficient.
So to charge a 90kWh pack would take 97.8 kWh. Call it 100. That equates to £13.80 in the daytime or £7.20 overnight, for 300 odd miles of range. A tank of petrol in my car costs about £40 for a similar range and lasts me about a month, so my fuel costs would be reduced by around £400 a year if I had an electric instead of my current car for commuting and could recharge it overnight
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Gas prices and how much of it is taxes in some countries:
edit: replaced with an english version
source: http://www.petrobras.com.br/en/products-and-services/price-composition/gasoline/
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@fbmac what's the green in the Brasil one? Corruption and bribes?
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@Jaloopa I don't see any of these colors as green.
edit: zooming in I found that last the one is kind of green, and is shown only for Brazil. I can barely notice the color difference from that to the darker blue. It's the Anhydrous Alocohol one.
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@Jaloopa said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
@fbmac what's the green in the Brasil one? Corruption and bribes?
That's the álcool anidro (anhydrous alcohol). Alcohol is a gasoline additive in other places, too, so why is it included in the graph only for Brazil?
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@fbmac said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
I can barely notice the color difference from that to the darker blue.
Jeff picked the colors for the graph.
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@Jaloopa said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
Isn't that exactly what @boomzilla and @FrostCat are saying won't just happen?
Yes, because they don't understand the S curve. They don't understand that it's already happening, and once adoption reaches a certain point, it will begin to feed back on itself. It will very quickly become something that you have to have or people will avoid you and you start losing money. (Would you want to live or work someplace that's not within convenient distance of a gas station?)
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@HardwareGeek said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
why is it included in the graph only for Brazil?
I guess they just don't have the data for other countries
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@masonwheeler I think you're begging the question somewhat
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@Jaloopa said in Hackers Make the First-Ever Ransomware for Smart Thermostats:
@masonwheeler I think you're begging the question somewhat
I'm extrapolating the future based on knowledge of the past.
Think of how many ancillary things we consider deal-breakers in day to day life. Imagine if you went to a mall--the purpose of which is to shop--and they had good stores there, but you discovered there were no bathrooms. It's unlikely you'd ever want to go back.
Surprisingly soon, charging will be one of those things.