Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems
-
@fbmac said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
@fbmac what is so hard for you to understand the meaning of the word "new".
I keep wanting to ask @fbmac the same question!
-
@fbmac or not, just because the forum is slow, doesn't mean that something from last month is new
-
@fbmac said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
Used and new are different unrelated concepts.
Not when using car analogies. Don't call my usage of 'new' wrong with a car analogy while the opposite of a new car, being a used car doesn't apply to the topic at hand.
Languages don't work like that. The meaning of words is always depending on context.
-
@fbmac said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
topics created in the last 72h
I hate arbitrary cut of dates/times. It's usually a sign you are looking at it the wrong way.
-
@Luhmann well, in this context, a topic is new when it's created less than some amount of time ago, and the concept you're trying to argue sound ridiculous to me
-
@aliceif said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
@fbmac
How do/should new users get their "new topics" list filled?
Please think about that.I'm a new(ish) user, I've been lurking for 5 months or so but a lot of the super old threads I have not seen before. Personally to me the term 'new' means created within X hours (24/72 whatever). My take on it is that 'new' should be created within X hours, but I very liekly won't use the filter anyways so it really doesn't matter to me. Admittedly though I didn't even realize there was a New Topics only filter until today. I've been using unread as my homepage as my start point.
Sorry, kind of rambled a bit - just wanted to throw out some experiences I've had. Also if I click on the WTF icon which presumably brings you to 'home' it just throws me an error '/custom not found' then tells me to go back to the home page which is the same page I am already on and throws the same error. I probably have to make a custom filter or something to get it to work.
-
@Lathun said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
I'm a new(ish) user, I've been lurking for 5 months
Just because you didn't post, it doesn't mean you're new.
-
@fbmac said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
doesn't mean that something from last month is new
It's new to me as visitor.
-
@fbmac said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
the concept you're trying to argue sound ridiculous to me
It makes more sense then having someone or something else determine if I have seen something or not
-
@Luhmann you missed the point again. I'm saying it doesn't matter if you have seen it or not. It doesn't affect the topic being new.
-
We've got animated avatars enabled?
-
@Zecc said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
We've got animated avatars enabled?
Hmm...looks like the "Convert profile image uploads to PNG" is turned off. Presumably that happened back in the image plugin back and forth.
-
@fbmac said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
I'm saying it doesn't matter if you have seen it or not.
It's all that matters to decide if the topic is new to me or not.
Just like when I come home in the used car I bought and I yell at my family to come out and look at my new car.
-
I would not mind if people cut the necromancy...
For new topics, might make sense to not change the filter (topic not read at all) but sort by creation time instead of last post?
-
@boomzilla said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
The most important quality of it is that you haven't interacted with it.
But I have interacted with many of those old topics. Ben L said a few posts up that NodeBB doesn't bother to check that, because it never imported the CS read markers. So even by your own definition the current behavior is wrong.
@boomzilla said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
Obviously, going through multiple imports has caused some weird side effects,
And yet a simple
if( today - topic.creation_date > 6 months ) { remove from new_list }
would easily solve this.
Look, people, I'm not saying this is a super important OMG PANIC bug, I'm just saying the current functionality is obviously a bug. It's just sloppy as shit, like everything on this goddamned forum.
-
@fbmac said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
it doesn't matter if you have seen it or not. It doesn't affect the topic being new.
So every topic from the last 3 days or whatever it's bikeshedded to should be in the New section? Even if you've read them?
-
@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
But I have interacted with many of those old topics. Ben L said a few posts up that NodeBB doesn't bother to check that, because it never imported the CS read markers. So even by your own definition the current behavior is wrong.
Yes, I said that the history of imports created some weird things.
@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
And yet a simple if( today - topic.creation_date > 6 months ) { remove from new_list } would easily solve this.
That would be wrong, though.
@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
I'm just saying the current functionality is obviously a bug.
I'm just saying it isn't. At least, not the bug you think it is.
-
@Jaloopa said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
@fbmac said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
it doesn't matter if you have seen it or not. It doesn't affect the topic being new.
So every topic from the last 3 days or whatever it's bikeshedded to should be in the New section? Even if you've read them?
Since the filter seems to be in the unread section (recent doesn't seem to have an option to filter anything) I would assume if you read them it should be removed from the filtered list unless a new post was added, up until the point of the original topic being 3 days (or whatever) old.
Being read vs unread should take priority over any filter, at least that is how I feel.
-
@boomzilla said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
Yes, I said that the history of imports created some weird things.
And some of those "weird things" are bugs. You could argue that, given the principle of least-surprise, any "weird thing" a software product does is a bug.
@boomzilla said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
I'm just saying it isn't. At least, not the bug you think it is.
Fine. Whatever.
How about the one I pointed out a few weeks ago, where if you are viewing Unread -> New and use Mark As Read -> All, it marks all unread posts as read, and not just the new ones? Explain to me how that's not a bug. And not a data-loss bug. Go for it.
-
@boomzilla I noticed it said I could only upload png, jpg or bmp. So I tried a gif.
Guess what happened...
-
@tufty there was an exception hardcoded on the site for your account because anything is an improvement over your previous one
-
@fbmac Oh no it's not. I could get lots worse than my last one, still without going NSFW. Really, you don't want to go saying things like that. It's like asking ben about logjam.
-
@Zecc said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
We've got animated avatars enabled?
I seem to recall something about "yes we're enabling animated avatars, but it's a mod's discretion to kill any really annoying ones".
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
@Zecc said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
a new notification came up and refreshed the page.
That's still happening? I thought they fixed that...
This is Open Source Rapid Development. Just because they fixed something doesn't mean it's (still) fixed.
-
@boomzilla said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
Like the date cutoff for unread stuff. That seems wrong to me, too
I agree. If it's unread, it'll always be unread.
The "new topics" meaning "topics that you haven't seen or read before" makes sense. Sucks that it's being mixed up with Community Server's stuff, but that's the fault of the import.
Now this COULD be solved with a simple query, or whatever the useless fuck MongoloidDB uses
INSERT INTO TableThatTracksIfTopicsHaveBeenRead(topic_id, user_id, last_read_date) SELECT td.topic_id, td.user_id, -- Last read date will be date of last reply in that topic, or NOW so that it isn't new until something new happens CASE WHEN r.reply_date is null THEN getdate() ELSE r.reply_date END as last_read_date FROM ( SELECT t.topic_id, u.user_id, getdate() as last_read_date FROM topics as t CROSS JOIN users AS u ) as td LEFT OUTER JOIN TableThatTracksIfTopicsHaveBeenRead AS tr ON tr.topic_id = td.topic_id AND tr.user_id = td.user_id LEFT OUTER JOIN ( select topic_id, user_id, MAX(reply_date) AS reply_date FROM replies as r GROUP BY topic_id, user_id ) as r ON r.topic_id = td.topic_id AND r.user_id = td.user_id INNER JOIN topics AS t on TD.topic_id = t.topic_id WHERE -- Topics that started before Discourse t.topic_start_date < @DateDiscourseCameOnline -- That the user hasn't already read on NodeBB AND tr.topic_id is null -- Alternatively, you can also add WHERE r.reply_date is not null to ONLY "mark as read" for users that have replied in an old topic
It took me less time to write this than y'all spent on arguing about it.
-
@boomzilla said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
Hmm...looks like the "Convert profile image uploads to PNG" is turned off. Presumably that happened back in the image plugin back and forth.
(still) fixed...
-
@Lorne-Kates said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
simple query
You have a very strange definition of "simple".
-
@ben_lubar said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
@Lorne-Kates said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
simple query
You have a very strange definition of "simple".
You have a strange way of seeing that as not "simple", when it comes to migrating data. :/
-
@Lorne-Kates simple queries are things like
SELECT * FROM foo WHERE id = $1
-
-
@fbmac said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
@Luhmann Used and new are different unrelated concepts.
Not for cars, which is the analogy you brought up.
-
@abarker No. It's just that "new" is sometimes used as shorthand for "recently acquired". Which still doesn't work in this usage we're talking about here on this forum.
-
@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
@abarker No. It's just that "new" is sometimes used as shorthand for "recently acquired". Which still doesn't work in this usage we're talking about here on this forum.
What do you think when you hear "new car" versus "used car"? New car, you think of something that has not been previously owned, as close to straight from the assembly line as is possible. Used Car, you know it's got miles on it, it's had at least one previous owner. So, in the standard usage, these terms are related, which is the opposite of what @fbmac was saying.
As for your claim, whenever someone says they got a new car as shorthand for "recently acquired", 99% of the time they clarify with "new to me" because it is not the common usage and requires clarification.
-
@ben_lubar No, on the face of it1, that's a trivial query.
Trivial queries are a very small subset of simple queries. A simple query, I contend, is one which your query optimiser doesn't barf on.
1 - However, it could be very complex indeed if
foo
turned out to be a gnarly view.
-
@abarker said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
As for your claim, whenever someone says they got a new car as shorthand for "recently acquired", 99% of the time they clarify with "new to me" because it is not the common usage and requires clarification.
Now, let's pursue the car analogy. Since we don't want to confuse "used" with "new," we need to understand what a used thread is. Obviously it's a thread where people have posted. Perhaps we could make a special snowflake exception for the OP, but then a new thread is a thread with either zero or one posts in it.
QED
-
@ben_lubar said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
@Lorne-Kates simple queries are things like
SELECT * FROM foo WHERE id = $1
Those are "in one's sleep CRUD queries"
Mine is a simple data manipulation query.
-
@abarker we call it a new car not because it wasn't used, but because it was recently manufactured.
if you use it for 2 days and sell me I'll still call it a new car.
-
@abarker said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
What do you think when you hear "new car" versus "used car"?
I don't understand your analogy. Could you use a car analogy instead?
-
@fbmac said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
@abarker we call it a new car not because it wasn't used, but because it was recently manufactured.
if you use it for 2 days and sell me I'll still call it a new car.
If you export a Volkswagen built in 2000 to Cuba, would it be a new car to them? If it isn't blemished, how would they tell the difference?
EDIT: INB4 looking at the paperwork
-
@JBert they'll call it an OVNI
-
-
So, here's another good one.
The @mods, at the request of @Vaire, who has no sense of humour, removed one of my posts. Which is fair enough, moderator discretion and it was badly worded anyway. So, I can see it, kinda greyed out, but I guess nobody else can.
However, it has this little 3 vertical dot "you can do shit" icon to the right of it. So I click on it. It has a "restore" option.
Which works.
-
@tufty FFS, this is entry level shit in the forum world.
-
@fbmac said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
recently manufactured.
No. If a car has been sitting year in stock it doesn't become a used car.
-
@Arantor Oh yes. Yes it is. Good, isn't it?
-
@tufty for some definition of good.
-
@tufty We can also purge a deleted post from existence, but whoever deleted your post chose not to, instead stopping at soft-delete.
-
@Luhmann but it become an old if it sit 3 years in stock, didn't it?
-
@fbmac
Just wait a few more years until it becomes a new old-timer!
-
@Yamikuronue Yeah, I know, I had the "purge" option as well.
I shouldn't have had either.