WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else
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@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Why do you think so?
Consistency
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@TimeBandit Oh, I get it. It's like how the space bar is the same size as all the other keys on the keyboard, for consistency
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@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@TimeBandit Oh, I get it. It's like how the space bar is the same size as all the other keys on the keyboard, for consistency
Actually, that's the takes-up-more-space bar, but people just got tired of saying its full name.
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I really don't see how this is better?
(Word 2003, pre ribbon)
The icons are generally just different designs of the same thing. Rather than some stuff being hidden behind tabs it's hidden in menus. You still need to know what something is called to find it, you still need to know which menu it's in. Almost nothing that's an icon has a label.
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@loopback0 It's obviously better because the icons are all the same size.
e: Except the Read one has a label! Consistency!!!!!1
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@MrL said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I browse the buttons and I'm not learning anything, because I don't know what they do.
How was this any different when you were new to old Office?!
@MrL said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
because there is no connection between what I want to do and cryptic icons.
@MrL said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I can't remember things by position either, because everything has different size, shape and behavior.
But it's always in the same position. It's not like the icons move around randomly, or one minute the Bold button is tiny and in a column but the next it's massive and on its own.
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@JBert said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
that's the takes-up-more-space bar
It's the heating spacebar
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It helps if you have the Blakeyrant Kit 2003 where they discussed the implementation of the ribbon.
@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The buttons were all same size and shape
"Toolbars are confusing and make common tasks difficult to acquire because everything is the same size and shape. It's just as difficult to find common tasks in the giant sea of icons like "Paste" as it is to find extremely uncommon tasks like "Protect with Information Rights Management."
@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The size of buttons was all larger than 44x44pt which is minimum recommended for touch interactions.
Office 2013 and up come with a "touch mode" option that increases the smallest button size to 48ipx by 48ipx (which meets the minimum recommended size for touch interactions if your display DPI is set correctly. Some versions make it an annoyingly prominent swipe button next to the window management controls.
@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The icons were not flat and too similar to each other
Originally they were relatively unique. Then Microsoft's Metro Guidelines and Google's Material Design brainworms took hold...
@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
There was some consistency when it comes to labeling (always to the right, always below, etc)
Large icons always have the label below. Small icons always have the label to the end side.
@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
All buttons were accessible using a menu style Alt+Menu Heading Letter+Menu Item Letter -- instead it is emulating menus badly and needs more keypresses to get where you want
First, that's three keypresses, this is three or two keypresses. Second, submenus required four or more keypresses. Third, some entries didn't have accelerator keys because all that made sense were already assigned. Allowing multiple letters fixes this.
@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
That icon can mean find/replace, search, or even zoom. How do you know what it is without the label which is hidden?
The group name is always visible, which is kind of a big tip-off. Also, Microsoft has this in their UI design guidelines. Find/Replace has the the stem of the magnifying glass point to the start (left), and zoom has the magnifying glass point to the end (right).
@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
(hint: there shouldn't be small and large icons and differently positioned text)
Sure there should be. Common tasks should be acquired quickly, and putting labels below makes for a large, square target. Less common tasks don't need fast acquisition, so something that reduces surface area (i.e. put icon-height text to the side of an icon) makes more room for more controls.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
GoogleBing integration for the Word's search bar
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@Luhmann said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
GoogleBing integration for the Word's search barThe bad idea thread is
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@Luhmann said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
GoogleBing integration for the Word's search barIt's bad enough that Windows opens Edge with Internet search results if I type "Notepad++" into the Start Menu search too quickly (because obviously it's faster to search the Internet than the software installed onto my PCI Express SSD). I really don't want that happening when I'm doing a search in a Word document.
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@mott555 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
opens Edge with Internet search results if I type "Notepad++" into the Start Menu search too quickly
If only there was some kind of launcher app for Windows that wouldn't do that
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Large icons have the label below. Small ones beside. It's not rocket surgery
(hint: there shouldn't be small and large icons and differently positioned text)
Weirdly enough, when I'm developing a UI do you know what gets prominently placed and larger than normal sizes?
Actions which get used often.
And do you know what doesn't get such prominent places and smaller sizes?
Actions which are used not as often.
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@Luhmann said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
GoogleBing integration for the Word's search barI was considering it but then every reply would moan how bad Bing is.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
every reply would moan how bad Bing is.
I've read that it's good for searching porn
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@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
If only there was some kind of launcher app for Windows that wouldn't do that
Like the Windows start menu without Internet search options enabled?
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
every reply would moan how bad Bing is.
I've read that it's good for searching porn
Yeah, it seems to not have a depravity filter (unlike Google).
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
If only there was some kind of launcher app for Windows that wouldn't do that
Like the Windows start menu without Internet search options enabled?
The name could use a bit of work. Why not call it something catchy like Launchy?
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@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The name could use a bit of work. Why not call it something catchy like Launchy?
I think the name's taken. Someone's always on here shilling for it.
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@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Launchy
This is obviously a crappy product
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@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Large icons have the label below. Small ones beside. It's not rocket surgery
(hint: there shouldn't be small and large icons and differently positioned text)
Weirdly enough, when I'm developing a UI do you know what gets prominently placed and larger than normal sizes?
Actions which get used often.
And do you know what doesn't get such prominent places and smaller sizes?
Actions which are used not as often.
Not sure what my point is but I've already done this so I might as well post it.
I'd say... 6/10?
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@Gąska
I haven't used any of those you assign as all the time since uni.Granted I hardly use any of the insert ribbon
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@Luhmann uni is the only thing I use Word for at all.
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@TwelveBaud said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Office 2013 and up come with a "touch mode" option
is using Office applications (other than maybe Outlook) on a touch device.
@TwelveBaud said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Find/Replace has the the stem of the magnifying glass point to the start (left), and zoom has the magnifying glass point to the end (right).
I have used Office for many years and never noticed that. It's great that UI designers have guidelines for that (if they actually follow the guidelines), but it's not terribly useful if the users don't know the difference.
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@HardwareGeek said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@TwelveBaud said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Office 2013 and up come with a "touch mode" option
is using Office applications (other than maybe Outlook) on a touch device.
2013 was the Year of Tablet (On Desktop).
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Luhmann uni is the only thing I use Word for at all.
I receive a lot of screenshots via Word. That's about all I use it for. I type up my Boy Scout Committee Meeting agendas in LibreOffice. I guess I normally open those screenshots in LibreOffice, too.
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@TwelveBaud said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
It helps if you have the Blakeyrant Kit 2003
Why would you use A VERSION OF BLAKEYRAT THAT'S SIXTEEN YEARS OUT OF DATE, YOU IDIOT?
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@Gąska Obviously you're the yardstick by which they should go.
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@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@TwelveBaud said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
It helps if you have the Blakeyrant Kit 2003
Why would you use A VERSION OF BLAKEYRAT THAT'S SIXTEEN YEARS OUT OF DATE, YOU IDIOT?
BECAUSE THE MAC CLASSIC ONE DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The best interface would be to have both the ribbon and a classic menu.
Office for Mac to the rescue:
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
it's just that you can't aim for it as easily as if everything had the same distance, shape and size.
Try as I might I can't work out what you mean by this. Maybe you do things differently but I hit elements on screen based on where they are, not whether they're the same size as other surrounding elements.
It's also about muscle memory, not just remembering where it is.
Is there something special about the ribbon that prevents you from developing muscle memory for it that doesn't apply to any other menu or toolbar?
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
It's not that it changes place, it's just that you can't aim for it as easily as if everything had the same distance, shape and size. It's also about muscle memory, not just remembering where it is.
Muscle memory is fine as it's always in the same place.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The best interface would be to have both the ribbon and a classic menu.
Office for Mac to the rescue:
Oh you're one of the people who uses Office in Classic theme.
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
pt as in points (as in font size points), not in pixels.
Let me know when your NeXTSTeP operating system that draws everything in points because PostScript takes off.
@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
it's a useless distinction and it is distracting when you scan text looking for something to sometimes find it below and sometimes to the side.
You're supposed to scan for icons, not text. The distinction matters because it's optimizing for different use cases (large target to be easy to click/tap, or small target to fit more similar items in.)
@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Do you honestly expect 95% of users to notice and remember that?
Consciously? No. Subconsciously? Absolutely.
@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Alt+Key is one keypress since it happens simultaneously. Or are you saying that you first press Alt, then think for a second before you press F to open File menu?
Fine, the initial "Alt" is not a separate keypress. Subtract one from each of my numbers. But since it affects all the numbers equally, the invariants don't change.
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The best interface would be to have both the ribbon and a classic menu.
Office for Mac to the rescue:
Oh you're one of the people who uses Office in Classic theme.
I don't need the window to be blue. I see no reason for deviating from the system's UI guidelines just for branding reasons.
Reminds me of my previous job, where they hired an external graphics designer to do icons for all kinds of actions (and they ended up looking, well, acceptable at least), then it was decided that for Corporate Design reasons everything needed to be tinted green. The result was an absolute mess.
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What would be nice:
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I don't need the window to be blue. I see no reason for deviating from the system's UI guidelines just for branding reasons.
Office 2016 Mac in Classic theme is very dull grey. It's basically one step up from beige.
I only use the Colorful theme because at work we're also on Office 2016 (on Mac, anyway) and it doesn't support dark mode.
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@Watson said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
What would be nice:
Typical Microsoft. They labelled the stuff I never use "Stuff I Use."
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I don't need the window to be blue. I see no reason for deviating from the system's UI guidelines just for branding reasons.
Office 2016 Mac in Classic theme is very dull grey.
Looks exactly the same grey as every other window to me.
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@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska Obviously you're the yardstick by which they should go.
I tried to be as objective as possible (you'd know that if you bothered to read it). Seriously though - who would ever want to automatically insert Wikipedia snippet into their document? If you'd want to do it, you'd probably want a specific sentence or two, and format them in the same way you format all other quotes, which is basically guaranteed to not match Microsoft's school of thought.
Compare to page break button, which is used in every multichapter document. And IIRC, it used to be a large button in Office 2007. I liked it that way.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Looks exactly the same grey as every other window to me.
Office is all the same grey, MacOS is many greys. Or dark mode.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Seriously though - who would ever want to automatically insert Wikipedia snippet into their document?
Last time I complained that the "insert picture" button doesn't open a file dialog but instead first opens an intermediary dialog where I have to click "from file" instead of "from Bing" (or whatever, idk) I got told by @pie_flavor that on their earth that's the source 98% of pictures come from.
You know, unlike people who have to use that shit for work, so that number is closer to 0%.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska Obviously you're the yardstick by which they should go.
I tried to be as objective as possible (you'd know that if you bothered to read it). Seriously though - who would ever want to automatically insert Wikipedia snippet into their document? If you'd want to do it, you'd probably want a specific sentence or two, and format them in the same way you format all other quotes, which is basically guaranteed to not match Microsoft's school of thought.
I take it you haven't actually tried what the button does?
Compare to page break button, which is used in every multichapter document. And IIRC, it used to be a large button in Office 2007. I liked it that way.
It still is.
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
So on Earth-73, 98% of work consists of porn then?
Worse. Minecraft.
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@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska Obviously you're the yardstick by which they should go.
I tried to be as objective as possible (you'd know that if you bothered to read it). Seriously though - who would ever want to automatically insert Wikipedia snippet into their document? If you'd want to do it, you'd probably want a specific sentence or two, and format them in the same way you format all other quotes, which is basically guaranteed to not match Microsoft's school of thought.
I take it you haven't actually tried what the button does?
Why would I? There's no way it's not absolutely useless to me, even if I want to copy and paste Wikipedia. And I'd rather avoid clicking unknown buttons unnecessarily in this day and age.
Compare to page break button, which is used in every multichapter document. And IIRC, it used to be a large button in Office 2007. I liked it that way.
It still is.
Which version? Because it's definitely not on 365 or whatever it is that I have currently installed.
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@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Is there something special about the ribbon that prevents you from developing muscle memory for it that doesn't apply to any other menu or toolbar?
A rather specific brainworm.
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@Watson said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
What would be nice:
You can do that IIRC! Just that the tab must go at the very end, and you need to know programming to make a module. Or something. They may have deprecated that since the years I've used it...
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
the "insert picture" button doesn't open a file dialog
It's too bad you can't just drag-n-drop pictures to embed like so.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Watson said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
What would be nice:
You can do that IIRC! Just that the tab must go at the very end, and you need to know programming to make a module. Or something. They may have deprecated that since the years I've used it...
Nah you can just add them now. There's a menu for it
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