The Official First World Problems Thread™
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No wonder. They are the car industry's gift to cocroaches in case of a nuclear war.
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Automatics never really caught on in Europe, even if the trend has changed considerably in the past ten years (from 21% 2003 up to 41% 2013 are the most recent figures I could quickly find for Sweden). Don't ask me why they never were popular, but I am willing to blame British Leyland.
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I liked them too when I was shopping for a used car, but I went with buying a car off of my mother since it was cheaper, faster, easier, and newer.
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Automatics improved considerably since 2003 (when the DSG gearbox was released) which is presumably responsible for the increase. A lot of them these days are essentially electronically controlled manual gearboxes.
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@Polygeekery said:
proper sports car
Corvettes
DOES_NOT_COMPUTE
GO_FUCK_YOURSELF_EUROTRASH ;)
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Better appreciate the effort required to make a double qoute and capitalized joke from mobile.
This site is soooo designed with mobile first.
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Oh, you're on mobile? Well, that's different.
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I know! It's painfully different.
FWP: posting on TDWTF from mobile
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A lot of them these days are essentially electronically controlled manual gearboxes.
This is why the old rule that manuals are more fuel efficient is no longer true.
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This is why the old rule that manuals are more fuel efficient is no longer true.
An automatic is usually pretty good, efficiency-wise, but sometimes it gets it wrong. The automatic in my new car just doesn't understand the (fairly long, fairly steep) hill between my home and the local station, and always prefers to pick poorly. Its pick would be a better choice if it was in an area with a higher speed limit and no parked cars, but it really isn't and that's that.
I still like an automatic in traffic, and would always prefer one for a hire car (because learning a new clutch bite point for a car that you're only having for a few days is for chumps).
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Granted, mine is from 2004, but my automatic transmission will not go into fifth gear nor will it lock the torque converter until the transmission is up to operating temperature, which never happens in winter unless I leave town so my winter gas mileage is like 10 mpg tops. Manuals don't have that problem.
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That sounds like a real automatic, rather than a computer-controlled manual.
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I also live in the countryside, where automatics or cars from this century are not really that common.
Look, pal, this is the First Wordpress Problems thread.
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The one thing that manuals are truly incompatible with is being fully self-driving
I'm not sure what you mean here. The concept of a manual self-driving car is nonsensical. An automatic self-driving car is a tautology. Whether it has a clutch, torque converter, generator and motor or any other transmission or propulsion system isn't relevant.
that's a feature that will be coming.
I, for one, welcome our imminent self-driving cars.
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I also recently heard that in Stockholm almost half of the people taking a driving licence chooses to do so for automatic only (this is then noted on their driving licence and they are not allowed to drive a car with manual transmission).
Is that a permanent restriction? I think here if you do your driving test in an automatic you can still drive a manual after a year has passed. Somehow it's learned by osmosis or something? I don't really understand.
Compare that with a heavy vehicle licence: You are not permitted to drive a manual truck at all if you do the driving test in an automatic. In fact, if you do the driving test in a truck with a synchromesh gearbox (no double-clutch technique required), you are not permitted to drive trucks without synchromesh. They're both manual transmissions.
I actively decided that my kids are not going to be restricted in this way
Absolutely. I'm going to make sure my kids know how to drive a manual. Also change a tyre, check the oil, etc. My eldest will likely have a learner's permit in less than five years.
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Meh. Automatic gearboxes have improved significantly over the last few years.
So much that the best automatics are really manuals with computer operated clutches. Slushboxes have been getting better since their inception but they have always sucked.
I spent a lot of time sat in traffic and a manual gets annoying after a while.
Meh. I've never felt this way.
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Ah, the modern world is sneaking in.
The automatic transmission was invented in 1921
Ah, the
modernlazy and ignorant world is sneaking in.
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I think here if you do your driving test in an automatic you can still drive a manual after a year has passed.
I assume Sweden is like the UK in the sense that if you pass your driving test in an automatic you can only drive automatics unless you take the driving test in a manual later. Passing in a manual allows you to to drive automatics.
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@boomzilla said:
Ah, the modern world is sneaking in.
The automatic transmission was invented in 1921
Ah, the
modernlazy and ignorant world is sneaking in.Yeah, almost 100 years! I guess I underestimated your lazy ignorance.
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A lot of them these days are essentially electronically controlled manual gearboxes.
WANT!
FWIW I had designed (back in high school, where all physics was still mere addition and subtraction) this exact thing because my foot was being... dumb... for a week or so, enough that I was wondering what it would take to make a manual transmission.
I would have done it too, if I had better control of the ECU and an electronically engageable clutch....
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an electronically engageable clutch....
What about two clutches?
(Yeah, VW ain't the only one but it's the easiest for me to find on Wikipedia)
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What about two clutches?
Now I want 3. Or maybe 4.
Filed Under: Fuck Everything We're Doing Five Clutches
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Now I want 3. Or maybe 4.
Suggestions should be posted to:
Gearbox Department
c/o Volkswagen AG
Emissions Plaza
Warsaw Road
Wolfsburg
Germany
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@boomzilla said:
Yeah, almost 100 years! I guess I underestimated your lazy ignorance.
TDEMSYR
I wasn't totally sure either, but that's how you chose to describe yourselves, so I figured it was a shrimp on the barbie kind of thing.
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that's how you chose to describe yourselves
You're trying too hard. You're better than this. 0/10
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You're trying too hard. You're better than this. 0/10
Well, yeah...I called you backwards for avoiding modern technology.
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Well, yeah...I called you backwards for avoiding modern technology.
I pointed out that the adjective "modern" isn't applicable.
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lazy and ignorant
You think stick is so great, you're welcome to spend an hour in stop-and-go city traffic twice a day in rush hour.
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I, for one, welcome our imminent self-driving cars.
How could anyone who visits these forums on a regular basis be for self-driving cars?
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Fwp here: people wanting a manual transmission car, even if they have the money for automatic and manual is barely available in their countries
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You think stick is so great, you're welcome to spend an hour in stop-and-go city traffic twice a day in rush hour.
I only buy cars with manual transmissions, but I don't have to wait in stop-and-go traffic unless there's an accident, and even then I know alternate routes. It helped that I knew where I would be working before I moved to Dallas (I took my job with me) and picked an apartment that I knew would be an easy commute.
manual is barely available in their countries
I know right? My current car was already on the lot with a manual, but the last two I had to buy using dealer trades.
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In which countries is manual "barely available"?
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It helped that I knew where I would be working before I moved to Dallas (I took my job with me) and picked an apartment that I knew would be an easy commute.
I moved to a subdivision (roughly) just off TX-78 in Wylie when I moved here, because I had a job just off TX-78 in Garland. Then my entire department got laid off and I found a new job that involved 60 minutes of rush-hour traffic through city streets. Stick would suck. (Oh--I could pay $4 or so each way on the PGBT and convert 20 minutes of that into highway traffic...except that a bunch of it would still involve going through the places that bunch up, like where it intersects the DNT. No thanks.)
I don't have a problem with stick...I've just never lived in a place where it would make sense to have one.
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In which countries is manual "barely available"?
Definitely the U.S. Most models here don't offer manual transmission at all, and the ones that do are limited availability. If you're lucky, there's one car on the lot in the desired model that has a manual.
I don't have a problem with stick...I've just never lived in a place where it would make sense to have one.
That's why I won't switch to a job in Plano or Frisco, and if I worked in downtown Dallas, I would just drive to the train stop and take the train in.
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You think stick is so great, you're welcome to spend an hour in stop-and-go city traffic twice a day in rush hour.
I choose to live in a city that doesn't have traffic quite so bad most of the time, and I choose to mostly use methods of transport that reduce my exposure to such traffic even further. You can make different choices.
I do on occasion find myself in stop-and-go traffic in my manual vehicle, and like I said, I don't find the clutch and gear change part so intolerable. Taking part in a traffic jam is just as unpleasant in an automatic.
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How could anyone who visits these forums on a regular basis be for self-driving cars?
Because as poor as the state of software development is, and it really is poor, humans are far more fallible than the machines they build. If you think any different you're fooling yourself. I could point at the driving record of the Google cars if you like.
Even in the case of what might be the worst quality car control software, or might only be the worst exposed so far, how many fatalities were caused by the "unintended accelleration" of certain Toyota models compared with those caused by evolved monkeys at the wheel? The monkeys are winning.
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That's why I won't switch to a job in Plano or Frisco
Agree...except that if there were a job in downtown Plano by the red line or something, I'd do that.
if I worked in downtown Dallas, I would just drive to the train stop and take the train in.
Ditto.
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You can make different choices.
I did--I chose to live ~1.25 miles from where I work so that my average commute, if I don't stop for something on the way, is 7 minutes.
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7 minutes.
You can't drive a manual for 7 minutes because that's too long in stop-and-go traffic?
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You can't drive a manual for 7 minutes because that's too long in stop-and-go traffic?
You'd have to be pretty stupid to get rid of a perfectly functional car just because you moved closer to work, especially when it's not yet paid for.
I solved the problem of a long commute by move closer to work. I'm not going to run out to buy a manual just because I'll only have to endure a few minutes of stop-and-go.
Plus, I do drive other places that would still leave me in lots of stop-and-go traffic.
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I choose to live in a city that doesn't have traffic quite so bad most of the time
Commuting to the office I officially work from is usually without any major traffic issues, but I'm travelling with work all over the country on an almost weekly basis and that's where I tend to get caught up in traffic. Sometimes for hours.
Taking part in a traffic jam is just as unpleasant in an automatic.
I disagree. For small traffic jams it's just as irritating either way, but for big traffic jams it's definitely less of a hassle in an automatic.
I have a manual car at the moment (and have only ever owned manual cars) but I spend enough of my time stuck in traffic wishing I had an automatic that it doesn't make sense to me to not have one. Most, if not all, modern automatic gearboxes have a manual mode if the driver fancies retaining some control.
It's not just me either - most of my colleagues have either swapped from manual to automatic in the last 2/3 years or own manuals but whenever they hire cars for work purposes hire automatics.
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Most, if not all, modern automatic gearboxes have a manual mode if the driver fancies retaining some control.
That's not manual. No clutch pedal, no manual. Torque converter = slushbox. It's called a slushbox because of the slushy feel, not because of the method by which the gear ratios are chosen.
It has always (?) been possible to shift an automatic from D to 4, 3, 2, 1, depending how many ratios the gearbox has, but nobody ever pretended that's manual.
whenever they hire cars for work purposes hire automatics
How often do you even get the choice? I understand too, if I ran a car hire company I'd only have automatics because that's one less thing inattentive and careless drivers are likely to abuse.
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traffic jams
I want to be clear I was complaining about stop-and-go traffic where you'd have to more or less continuously switch gears.
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That's not manual. No clutch pedal, no manual.
I get why you'd think that.
Torque converter = slushbox. It's called a slushbox because of the slushy feel, not because of the method by which the gear ratios are chosen.
So how do direct shift gearboxes fit into this? They're manual gearboxes which are just controlled by electronics rather than a stick and a clutch pedal.
Enough (mostly French) manufacturers make terrible gearboxes that you could call those slushboxes.How often do you even get the choice?
Every time. Here in the UK, hire companies have less automatics. Some people at work request automatics because the smaller Enterprise sites have barely any automatics so a lot of the time they only have automatics in the higher classes of car. For example they request an Astra automatic but get an Insignia automatic for the same money because that's all that's available.
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I want to be clear I was complaining about stop-and-go traffic where you'd have to more or less continuously switch gears.
Then "traffic jams" was the wrong phrase for me to use, because that's the type of traffic I meant too.
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Ok. Was just making sure. To me "traffic jam" means everyone's stopped, probably because of an accident.