Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition
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I thought about linking that, heh.
All you really need to read:
But an independent study by the Chicago Tribune (subscription required) found that not only were the city's numbers about red light safety grossly exaggerated, it turns out that in many situations, red light cameras actually increased by 22% the number of serious injuries at intersections. 3
And what's worse, as Ars Technica notes, there was no proof that the cameras actually increased safety at all.
But there was plenty of proof that they generated money for the city, to the tune of $500,000,000 since 2002.
(Oh, and definitely, definitely, definitely, pay no attention to the fact that another study found that 13,000 drivers were charged with violating a red light at an intersection when they'd done nothing wrong at all.)
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The easiest way to fix the problems would be to have the cities set where the cameras are, but for the fines to go to the states. It's amazing how not having the pecuniary incentive encourages people to use things as they're meant to be used.
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The easiest way to fix the problems would be to have the cities set where the cameras are, but for the fines to go to the states. It's amazing how not having the pecuniary incentive encourages people to use things as they're meant to be used.
That would be a start, though might not change as much as you'd like in states where politics tend to be dominated by a single city.
Better yet, split up the proceeds at the end of the year and distribute them equally to city residents. Let the bad drivers pay everyone else!
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That would be a start, though might not change as much as you'd like in states where politics tend to be dominated by a single city.
It wouldn't be perfect, I admit, but it would help a lot more than you think. Letting the body that sets the fines keep them is a tremendous incentive to abuse.
Context: Politics in the UK is far more dominated by London than most US states are dominated by a single city. But for all that, we still do the separation model, and it keeps the cameras largely focused on their misbehaviour-prevention purpose. It also helps that we have rules — enforced by the courts with lots of precedent — that a notice of some restriction must be clearly displayed so that drivers can reasonably be expected that they can obey it. Where a sign gets hidden, even by things like overgrown trees, the driver has a clear out of paying the fine when it comes to court (which they'd be well advised to do). The authorities are consequently very keen on clear signage.
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The easiest way to fix the problems
Yes, but the best way to fix the problems is realize these things are bad and just get rid of them.
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The authorities are consequently very keen on clear signage.
That's good to know--in the early years that you started using speed cams, I heard a lot of stories of cameras apparently deliberately hidden by obstacles, or placed in places that don't make sense except to generate revenue (e.g., lower the speed from 45 to 35 on a straight road, and put in a camera behind a tree.)
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That's good to know--in the early years that you started using speed cams, I heard a lot of stories of cameras apparently deliberately hidden by obstacles, or placed in places that don't make sense except to generate revenue (e.g., lower the speed from 45 to 35 on a straight road, and put in a camera behind a tree.)
While I'm not sure if the camera is allowed to be hidden or not, the limit sign most certainly isn't. [spoiler]We also never use 35 or 45 as limits on public roads; always a multiple of 10 here, and limits below 30 require additional measures like chicanes or speed-bumps or both…[/spoiler]
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While I'm not sure if the camera is allowed to be hidden or not, the limit sign most certainly isn't. We also never use 35 or 45 as limits on public roads; always a multiple of 10 here, and limits below 30 require additional measures like chicanes or speed-bumps or both…
Bear in mind I'm not likely to remember the exact speeds listed on a website I read 5-10 years ago.
Assume it was lowered from 40 to 30, then, if that's the kind of speeds you'd see.As for hiding the cameras and/or signs, all I can say is what I read. Unfortunately the website's gone these days.
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While I'm not sure if the camera is allowed to be hidden or not
not sure about if it's leagally requires to be in the open, but i would expect it to be so, if fo no other reason than to avoid arguments of entrapment.
and an entrapment lawsuit is never good for a police force, even more so if they lose.
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Provided the speed limit notices are properly clear, I don't see that there's need to post the location of the enforcement points. After all, they could also be enforced by a cop with a hand-held device at the side of the road, or by observing when you entered a stretch of road and when you left it (a measured distance later), and you're supposed to do the right thing by keeping your speed down even if there's no enforcement of the rules at that particular moment.
Entrapment would be if there was no reasonable way for an arbitrary member of the public to know what the speed limit was on that road when legitimately driving along it.
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not sure about if it's leagally requires to be in the open, but i would expect it to be so, if fo no other reason than to avoid arguments of entrapment.
Here we have garbage bin speed camera's, fake cut out cops and camera's hidden behind road work equipment.
entrapment lawsuit
Doubt it since they would only be registering your offence you commit while in plain view on public domain without their intervention.
Unless they would be changing road signs or altering other stuff to specifically increase the chances of someone committing a crime.
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Entrapment would be if there was no reasonable way for an arbitrary member of the public to know what the speed limit was on that road when legitimately driving along it.
wouldn't stop some from arguing it (at least it hasn't stopped some 'muricans). the faster they can have those cases thrown out of court the cheaper it is for everyone involved.
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wouldn't stop some from arguing it
Nothing will stop that. Doesn't mean that they'll win the argument. ;-)
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oh they wouldn't win it, but that doesn't mean the police want to spend a penny more than necessary defending themselves against entrapment allegations
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Here we have garbage bin speed camera's, fake cut out cops and camera's hidden behind road work equipment.
In England, so I'm led to believe, those had a tendency to have a tire draped over them, gasoline poured into the tire, and the whole thing set on fire.
Civil disobedience, baby!
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While I'm not sure if the camera is allowed to be hidden or not,
Here in AZ, the camera doesn't need to be visible, but there does need to be a sign indicating that the camera is there.
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I've not seen a speed camera that's been set on fire or had any kind of revenge attack for a while.
Most of them these days seem to be in places it's quite difficult to attack, or way above the road on a gantry.
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Most of them these days seem to be in places it's quite difficult to attack, or way above the road on a gantry.
I've seen a few that have clearly been...nudged...so they don't point anywhere meaningful.
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I've seen a few that have clearly been...nudged...so they don't point anywhere meaningful.
I wonder how long it'll take for them to figure it out...sounds like they might be pointing at walls for a while, from the way gov't usually is.
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In England, so I'm led to believe, those had a tendency to have a tire draped over them, gasoline poured into the tire, and the whole thing set on fire.
Civil disobedience, baby!
Incorrect. In England, they would have a tyre draped over them and petrol poured in.
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I wonder how long it'll take for them to figure it out...sounds like they might be pointing at walls for a while, from the way gov't usually is.
Well, most of the ones in Dallas proper were turned off after only a year or so.
Sometimes I am driving and I will see the light on one go off, so some of them around here are still active, but I don't know which ones.
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Incorrect. In England, they would have a tyre draped over them and petrol poured in.
If it were done in England, perhaps, but I was writing about it in 'Murica, so it's tire and gas.
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Well, most of the ones in Dallas proper were turned off after only a year or so.
Sometimes I am driving and I will see the light on one go off, so some of them around here are still active, but I don't know which ones.
Same here, nearly 2 years ago, the city dropped them. But that was only the city proper, not the county, so you have to remember where you are.
The San Diego Union-Tribune - San Diego, California & National News
News about San Diego, California
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The easiest way to fix the problems would be to have the cities set where the cameras are, but for the fines to go to the states. It's amazing how not having the pecuniary incentive encourages people to use things as they're meant to be used.
... because you still believe that red light cameras are an effective road safety measure despite overwhelming evidence showing it to not be true after twenty years of using them? I'm sure the problem is that "they aren't doing it right" rather than the whole idea being flawed. Your common sense trumps actual evidence.
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Possible antidote for one of the anti-patterns?
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Same here, nearly 2 years ago, the city dropped them. But that was only the city proper, not the county, so you have to remember where you are.
The San Diego Union-Tribune - San Diego, California & National News
News about San Diego, California
Ah, gotta love jurisdiction. Here in the Czech Republic we have a special sign indicating that speed is being measured in the area. Funny thing is only the local city police is required to post this. The state police can measure the speed wherever they want to, sign or not.
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Possible antidote for one of the anti-patterns?
Negative -- keeping as far right as possible is a bad idea in unfamiliar/marginally-familiar urban areas. Ever found yourself unexpectedly taking an exit because the right lane (or two lanes!) turned into an "EXIT ONLY" out from under you?
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Ever found yourself unexpectedly taking an exit because the right lane (or two lanes!) turned into an "EXIT ONLY" out from under you?
Not that I remember. Those generally have signs ahead so there's time to get out if needed.
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Not that I remember. Those generally have signs ahead so there's time to get out if needed.
Yeah -- consider yourself lucky that you haven't run into poorly-signed territory, then. (Those places do exist, and they drive drivers crazy for it.)
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we have one of these.... the crazy thing is that it's only technically exit only. if you stay straight wen you exit the freeway it dumps you on an arterial road that gives you an opportunity to rejoin the highway not a half mile further on (and again a mile after that)
it's even marked at the intersection of the ramp and the arterial.
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Context: Politics in the UK is far more dominated by London than most US states are dominated by a single city. But for all that, we still do the separation model, and it keeps the cameras largely focused on their misbehaviour-prevention purpose.
It's sad (to me) that you guys apparently have more effective federalism / systemic checks and balances than we do any more.
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It's sad (to me) that you guys apparently have more effective federalism / systemic checks and balances than we do any more.
That happened because they just kept on applying bug fixes to their politics instead of going all CADT.
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That happened because they just kept on applying bug fixes to their politics instead of going all CADT.
Well, they wouldn't let us make our fork, so we kinda had to.
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It's sad (to me) that you guys apparently have more effective federalism / systemic checks and balances than we do any more.
It's just broken in different ways. Our centre is far too strong, and you're starting to see real signs of a reaction against that. On the other hand, there's more of an inclination to compromise and to reach some agreement with the other side(s), so that's something, and there's much less of an inclination to grant immunity from prosecution to public figures ex officio. (Our judiciary are notably stuffy, but are also very independent from politics. This deeply frustrates some politicians.
)
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As I was just reminded if there is one thing Czech drivers are absolutely incapable of it is line merging. If ever a situation arises which requires a lane to close (road works, accident, "optimizing" the traffic) it turns into a massive fucking disaster until the line reopens or people get used to it. The latter is actually the funny part - if a Czech driver knows a line is going to end soon (< 1 km), and would therefore require him to merge into another one, the line is going to be absolutely deserted because nobody wants to get to the dreaded end.
As a result, nobody seems to understand how you're supposed to merge correctly should you actually need to (hence the fucking disaster mentioned above). I guess it got so bad we even have road signs explaining how to do it!
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Has anyone ever received a speeding ticket via aircraft? There's a stretch of road on my daily commute with the "enforced by aircraft" sign and I wonder if it's ever actually enforced.
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Has anyone ever received a speeding ticket via aircraft? There's a stretch of road on my daily commute with the "enforced by aircraft" sign and I wonder if it's ever actually enforced.
There are a bunch of those around here, but the only person I know that ever got one was out in AZ. Got busted doing about 120.
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There's a stretch of road on my daily commute with the "enforced by aircraft" sign and I wonder if it's ever actually enforced.
how much are you willing to bet on finding out?
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0.0199571429 meters per second doesn't sound very fast.
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I thought we were talking about decibels? 120 decibels is rather loud.
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What's the FFF system unit for sound volume?
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Wrong. Because there is no unit mentioned.
But there was one that can easily be inferred.
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But there was one that can easily be inferred.
No, going 120 km/h is fast and is the legal limit on a highway in a lot of European countries, and in a lot of others it is 130.
See, I left the the unit out the second time. Here you can inferred that I mean km/h because that was what I was using before. All else is assuming you are using the same units.
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No, going 120 km/h is fast and is the legal limit on a highway in a lot of European countries, and in a lot of others it is 130.
See, I left the the unit out the second time. Here you can inferred that I mean km/h because that was what I was using before. All else is assuming you are using the same units.You're whooshing badly on this one.
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This morning's anti-pattern, observed twice on the way to work, is slamming on your brakes and slowing from highway speed down to 40 mph before switching over to the offramp lane which is nearly half a mile long before you actually have to exit.
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Someone's whooshing, but I don't think it's @Luhmann.
