Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition
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@Luhmann There are roundabouts in this part of the world where the main road goes straight over. For example, the northern side of this junction:
That is a truly horrid junction, made doubly fun by the large IKEA (marker label cut off at the west side of the image). Oh, and the southern side used to be a roundabout as well, but there were so many crashes that they removed it. Junctions 26, 28 and 29 are also pretty terrible if you're not lucky with the route you're taking, with 28 including another road-across-a-roundabound exampleβ¦
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@remi The lorry drivers should have just unloaded there. "If you don't want us to drive in, we'll just leave everything here."
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@dcon I guess they needed some sort of delivery form signed, so they would still have had to walk up to the buildings (and find the right people, and explain to them why they didn't drive to the delivery area etc.). Plus, once they have driven far enough to see the roundabout and get stuck in it, they are halfway inside the gate, with the trailer behind them at close to a 90 degrees angle (remember the picture and the 90 degrees right turn just before entering, and after the sharp u-turn!). Backing up and getting out is more hassle than going forward and doing a u-turn somewhere on a parking inside the campus (or exiting the campus from the other gate... I suspect most drivers only got caught by this roundabout once, the next time they knew to enter from the other side, even if their GPS told them it wasn't the shortest route!).
Powering through the bollards and signs was probably just as efficient at sending the right message, while not adding too much burden on the drivers.
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@nerd4sale said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@HardwareGeek said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
A European car almost certainly has a manual transmission.
In what decade do you live?
The one in which we had a discussion about Americans' preference for automatics vs. Europeans' preference for manual transmissions, and how you get a second-class driver's license if you take your test in an automatic, such that you are only allowed to drive gimp cars, and have to retake your test and get a better license if you subsequently want to drive a real car.
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@HardwareGeek A quick search told me that in "Europe" (whatever definition that article used) about 80% of new cars are manual, though it will vary a lot by countries. For example in France it's around 65% manual while in the UK it seems to be close to 50-50 (with a significant uptake of automatic in the last 10 years or so in both cases).
Anecdotally, when browsing constructors' websites for a new car, entry-level models are always offered as manual, and sometimes don't even have the option of an automatic transmission (you sometimes need to get a higher trim level before this option becomes available). Switching (ah ah) from manual to automatic adds around 2-4k (EUR or GBP or USD, doesn't matter for the ballpark) to the price.
Of course if (when?) electric cars become more commonplace, this will change.
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@remi said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
about 80% of new cars are manual
And about 90% of Americans think that means they have the shifting paddles on the steering wheel. I miss my manual... (no, that fake manual shifting on an automatic doesn't even come close to a real manual experience!)
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@remi said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
UK it seems to be close to 50-50 (with a significant uptake of automatic in the last 10 years or so in both cases).
Automatic gearboxes were, largely, awful until the last few years.
@remi said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
entry-level models are always offered as manual, and sometimes don't even have the option of an automatic transmission
Equally some higher-level models are only offered as automatic.
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@dcon said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
that fake manual shifting on an automatic doesn't even come close to a real manual experience!
Getting the manual shifting right on an interesting country road can be a huge amount of fun; you feel very in control of the vehicle and in tune with the whole experience.
Manual shifting gets very old very fast in a traffic jam. Max automatic is much better for that.
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@dkf said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Getting the manual shifting right on an interesting country road can be a huge amount of fun; you feel very in control of the vehicle and in tune with the whole experience.
It's still that amount of fun with the right automatic gearbox in manual mode.
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@dkf said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Manual shifting gets very old very fast in a traffic jam. Max automatic is much better for that.
I don't really mind. I just control it with the clutch and throttle and only shift when it occasionally gets moving faster for non-trivial time.
@loopback0 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
It's still that amount of fun with the right automatic gearbox in manual mode.
There ain't no such thing as manual mode of automatic gearbox. Semi-automatic at best. The differentiating feature of a manual is the clutch.
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@Bulb said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
There ain't no such thing as manual mode of automatic gearbox Semi-automatic at best
Whether it's pedantically that or not, it's what the mode is called in the car.
@Bulb said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
The differentiating feature of manual is the clutch.
The automatic gearbox in my car has two
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@loopback0 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Bulb said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
The differentiating feature of manual is the clutch.
The automatic gearbox in my car has two
But you can't directly control either, can you?
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@Bulb said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@loopback0 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Bulb said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
The differentiating feature of manual is the clutch.
The automatic gearbox in my car has two
But you can't directly control either, can you?
No but if we're being pointlessly pedantic you didn't specify that
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@loopback0 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
It's still that amount of fun with the right automatic gearbox in manual mode.
Nope
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Status: I seem to be the only one in this thread capable of treating my automatic transmission as if it were manual...
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@nerd4sale said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@HardwareGeek said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
A European car almost certainly has a manual transmission.
In what decade do you live?
One where an automatic is β¬2000 extra. Minimum.
@loopback0 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Automatic gearboxes were, largely, awful until the last few years.
(Very) modern automatics are technically more like computer-controlled manual transmissions; a lot of traditional downsides of automatics don't apply to them.
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@PleegWat said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@nerd4sale said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@HardwareGeek said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
A European car almost certainly has a manual transmission.
In what decade do you live?
One where an automatic is β¬2000 extra. Minimum.
@loopback0 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Automatic gearboxes were, largely, awful until the last few years.
(Very) modern automatics are technically more like computer-controlled manual transmissions; a lot of traditional downsides of automatics don't apply to them.
The automatic in my toy car also shifts faster than most diverse are capable of with a manual gearbox, when operated in manual mode. There car also behaves largely like a manual gearbox when in manual mode, apart from not having the clutch to make the rear kick out easily.
I greatly prefer driving manuals, but I don't hate this cars automatic gearbox as I've hated previous ones I've owned.
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@Bulb said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@dkf said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Manual shifting gets very old very fast in a traffic jam. Max automatic is much better for that.
I don't really mind. I just control it with the clutch and throttle and only shift when it occasionally gets moving faster for non-trivial time.
Operating the clutch is the part of driving a manual transmission in stop-and-go traffic is the part that gets old fastest. Sometimes it felt like my left leg was going to fall off. The problem is not so much the shifting as the amount of time you spend at too-slow-for-first-gear speed.
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@HardwareGeek said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
the amount of time you spend at too-slow-for-first-gear speed.
I solve that issue by letting a bit of slack build up, such that there's some hysteresis available. Usually the effective travel rate is indeed "good enough" for me to just leave it in idle in first, just that the other drivers seem to like to floor it and brake-check to the next dip in the wave.
What amuses me most is that this tends to actually increase my MPG efficiency, moreso than typical.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
I solve that issue by letting a bit of slack build up, such that there's some hysteresis available. Usually the effective travel rate is indeed "good enough" for me to just leave it in idle in first,
Yeah, but it doesn't really work when the average speed is something like 0.5 MPH (0.8 km/h).
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@HardwareGeek said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
I solve that issue by letting a bit of slack build up, such that there's some hysteresis available. Usually the effective travel rate is indeed "good enough" for me to just leave it in idle in first,
Yeah, but it doesn't really work when the average speed is something like 0.5 MPH (0.8 km/h).
Increase the slack.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Status: I seem to be the only one in this thread capable of treating my automatic transmission as if it were manual...
Most (all?) automatic transmissions have settings for the shifting lever that set the maximum gear the transmission should switch to.
Mine has
for park, reverse, neutral, (over-)drive, 3rd gear, 2nd gear, low (1st) gear.
Unlike most people, AFAIK, I do make use of the lower max gearings, especially when I'm driving downhill. The transmission is designed to take more wear than the brake pads, so if I can use a lower gear to keep the vehicle at a safe speed instead of riding the brakes all the way down, I'll save having to replace the pads as frequently. IIRC, 3rd gear keeps my speed at ~65 mph, and 2nd keeps me down to ~45 mph or 50 if the slope is especially steep for a highway. I think the steepest freeway I've driven on is Parley's Summit, just east of SLC, UT, on I-80. I have driven on steeper roads, but they were short sections in residential areas.
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@djls45 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Most (all?) automatic transmissions have settings for the shifting lever that set the maximum gear the transmission should switch to.
Sure, sure, but I meant more for these speedsters that seem to think it's impossible to downshift in an automatic (presumably on-demand) in a responsive manner (i.e. when you want without delay).
I guess I'm just too big-brained to be able to predict the extra half-second it takes to trigger a downshift with my foot instead of having to clutch-shift-clutch on a manual...
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I don't understand anything about all this transmission stuff. Can someone explain it using a computer analogy?
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Received offers for a new car. Apparently a BMW X1 falls in the same leasing bracket as a VW Passat Tourer.
Maybe check first if blinkers are included in the beamer.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
I guess I'm just too big-brained to be able to predict the extra half-second it takes to trigger a downshift with my foot instead of having to clutch-shift-clutch on a manual...
Or slow enough a driver that it doesn't matter to you anyway. And driving on roads where the automatic downshifts are predictable. Hint: it won't go so well on steep hills in winter.
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@acrow said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
steep hills in winter.
One of the (very) few benefits of living in a bowl where "winter" is a few weeks where things get kinda-chilly.
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@PleegWat said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
One where an automatic is β¬2000 extra. Minimum.
And yet more than a third of the cars sold in the Netherlands has an automatic gearbox.
And that number is rising.
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@Bulb said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
There ain't no such thing as manual mode of automatic gearbox. Semi-automatic at best. The differentiating feature of a manual is the clutch.
Agree. And that clutch just gives you a lot more precise control of the car, especially at low speeds.
Background: drove manual cars for about 20 years, and now (semi) automatic for 11.
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@djls45 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Status: I seem to be the only one in this thread capable of treating my automatic transmission as if it were manual...
Most (all?) automatic transmissions have settings for the shifting lever that set the maximum gear the transmission should switch to.
Mine has
for park, reverse, (over-)drive, 3rd gear, 2nd gear, low (1st) gear.
I've not seen a modern automatic gearbox with 3/2/1 etc. Presumably since they stopped only having 4 forward gears.
Modern automatics have other ways of putting them into a specific gear of course if needed..@Tsaukpaetra said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
I guess I'm just too big-brained to be able to predict the extra half-second it takes to trigger a downshift with my foot instead of having to clutch-shift-clutch on a manual...
Half a second is a loooong time.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@acrow said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
steep hills in winter.
One of the (very) few benefits of living in a bowl where "winter" is a few weeks where things get kinda-chilly.
Going sideways in the snow is fun, so not entirely sure it's a benefit.
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@Zerosquare said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
I don't understand anything about all this transmission stuff. Can someone explain it using a computer analogy?
Europeans like to drive using C, Americans tend to drive with Java.
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@Carnage said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@acrow said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
steep hills in winter.
One of the (very) few benefits of living in a bowl where "winter" is a few weeks where things get kinda-chilly.
Going sideways in the snow
is funwas fun until automatic traction (dis-)control became mandatory, so not entirely sure it's a benefit.FTFY
I hate few "safety" features as much. It makes winter driving hell.
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@frillunflop said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Zerosquare said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
I don't understand anything about all this transmission stuff. Can someone explain it using a computer analogy?
Europeans like to drive using C, Americans tend to drive with Java.
I think I found what driving assembly looks like:
https://youtu.be/QxfHMtgg2d8
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@nerd4sale said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@HardwareGeek said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
A European car almost certainly has a manual transmission.
In what decade do you live?
Unfortunately, that still holds quite true. By far the majority of cars in germany have manual transmission. If you want automatic transmission, you typically have to buy a car with a very strong engine, typically the strongest available for that model; and for small cars, it is often not available at all.
Average german fucktards believe that automatic transmission is for people who are to stupid to use manual transmission only, But fact is that most of them are too stupid to use it correctly. Overtaking a lorry uphill, some 60 km/h, strongly pressing the accelerator, but no acceleration because highest gear...
I'd prefer automatic, but that's hardly available among second-hand cars (why should I pay so much money for a new car?) and among non-overpowered cars.
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@acrow said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Carnage said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@acrow said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
steep hills in winter.
One of the (very) few benefits of living in a bowl where "winter" is a few weeks where things get kinda-chilly.
Going sideways in the snow
is funwas fun until automatic traction (dis-)control became mandatory, so not entirely sure it's a benefit.FTFY
I hate few "safety" features as much. It makes winter driving hell.
My car has an off button for that, and it's RWD. Wheee! Brrrmbrrrm!
Most cars also have a diagnostics mode you can enter with a strange dance that turns off all nanny systems.
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@PleegWat said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
(Very) modern automatics are technically more like computer-controlled manual transmissions; a lot of traditional downsides of automatics don't apply to them.
I presume you're taking about dual-clutch transmissions?
Yes, unlike conventional hydraulic automatics DCTs are more fuel efficient (no torque converter losses) and can have way faster gear changes, but only if the computer guesses correctly and prepares the right gear on the "back buffer." If not, they're worse than anything. They're also more complex so it's easy to find horror stories about them. Ford's "PowerShi
ft" being a notable example.
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@Deadfast said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@frillunflop said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Zerosquare said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
I don't understand anything about all this transmission stuff. Can someone explain it using a computer analogy?
Europeans like to drive using C, Americans tend to drive with Java.
I think I found what driving assembly looks like:
https://youtu.be/QxfHMtgg2d8That doesn't sound right.
I was thinking more of this:
LADA: Some assembly required
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@BernieTheBernie said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@nerd4sale said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@HardwareGeek said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
A European car almost certainly has a manual transmission.
In what decade do you live?
Unfortunately, that still holds quite true. By far the majority of cars in germany have manual transmission.
I now, about two-thirds is still manual.
My reaction was to "A European car almost certainly has a manual transmission."
I would not call two-thirds "amost certainly".
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@djls45 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
The transmission is designed to take more wear than the brake pads
Changin brake pads is cheap and easy compared to changing the transmission
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@acrow said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
I hate few "safety" features as much. It makes winter driving hell.
You usually have a button to disable it. This can also be disabled by reprogramming your car computer.
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@TimeBandit said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@acrow said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
I hate few "safety" features as much. It makes winter driving hell.
You usually have a button to disable it. This can also be disabled by reprogramming your car computer.
Some cars I've had the displeasure to drive re-enable it by themselves. Either after a time limit, or above some specific speed.
That latter condition made it extremely hard to get a cetain Mercedes up a certain steep hill, around where my parents used to live, in winter. To get up the hill at all, you had to pick up speed, causing it to re-enable, and then you had to hit the disable button halfway up the hill, to be able to claw your way to the top.
Still not as bad as coming down the same hill, if you forgot to disable traction control. Almost threw me off the road a couple of times. Teaches me to engine-brake in a loaned car.Anyway. Last time I had to buy a new car, having a button that disabled the feature at least until the end of my drive was a selection criteria.
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@acrow said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Last time I had to buy a new car, having a button that disabled the feature at least until the end of my drive was a selection criteria.
I have a Subaru Impreza 2011 with a button to completley disable traction control.
Last year, I was invited to the dealership to try the new model.
They almost sold me a new one, until the salesman said "you're lucky to have a 2011, that's the last year model that won't re-enable traction control itself when you're trying to have fun, because of the law".At that point, I told him "Thank you, I'll keep my old one".
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@TimeBandit said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@acrow said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Last time I had to buy a new car, having a button that disabled the feature at least until the end of my drive was a selection criteria.
I have a Subaru Impreza 2011 with a button to completley disable traction control.
Last year, I was invited to the dealership to try the new model.
They almost sold me a new one, until the salesman said "you're lucky to have a 2011, that's the last year model that won't re-enable traction control itself when you're trying to have fun, because of the law".At that point, I told him "Thank you, I'll keep my old one".
There may be a long press deactivation that sticks. If not, there is always diagnostic mode.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Status: I seem to be the only one in this thread capable of treating my automatic transmission as if it were manual...
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@djls45 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
The transmission is designed to take more wear than the brake pads,
As I've always understood it, it's not about wear but about where waste heat goes. If you use the bakes, then the waste heat heats up the brakes, which have relatively limited thermal mass and are air-cooled. If you use engine braking, the waste heat goes into the engine, which has much higher thermal mass and is water cooled via the radiator, which probably gets more airflow than the brake pads do.
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@loopback0 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Bulb said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
There ain't no such thing as manual mode of automatic gearbox Semi-automatic at best
Whether it's pedantically that or not, it's what the mode is called in the car.
It's called "Sport" mode on mine, I believe (and labeled "S" on the main shifter). I have never intentionally used it.
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@PleegWat said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@djls45 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
The transmission is designed to take more wear than the brake pads,
As I've always understood it, it's not about wear but about where waste heat goes. If you use the bakes, then the waste heat heats up the brakes, which have relatively limited thermal mass and are air-cooled. If you use engine braking, the waste heat goes into the engine, which has much higher thermal mass and is water cooled via the radiator, which probably gets more airflow than the brake pads do.
The transmission often has it's own oil system and air cooling. Overheating the transmission fluid will increase transmission wear and cause it to fail sooner.
Brakes are specifically designed and manufactured to turn kinetic energy into heat. That is their entire purpose. To instead use the transmission for this seems a bit odd.
Also, you could let off the brakes and let them cool a bit before glassing them or boiling the brake fluid to avoid catastrophic failure of brakes.
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@PleegWat said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@djls45 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
The transmission is designed to take more wear than the brake pads,
As I've always understood it, it's not about wear but about where waste heat goes. If you use the bakes, then the waste heat heats up the brakes, which have relatively limited thermal mass and are air-cooled. If you use engine braking, the waste heat goes into the engine, which has much higher thermal mass and is water cooled via the radiator, which probably gets more airflow than the brake pads do.
If the brakes overheat, their effectiveness is reduced which isn't exactly ideal if you're going downhill.
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@Zerosquare said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
I don't understand anything about all this transmission stuff. Can someone explain it using a computer analogy?
GUI vs CLI.