Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down
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@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@masonwheeler no, I'm talking about python being shitty opensource crap
Are you pretending to be Blakeyrat now or something?
Sometimes I lose track of all the layers of trollery around here...
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@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
This is not surprising; it's designed by the same company that invented SOAP. This doesn't make SOAP suck any less. It actually manages to make XML even worse.
.NET languages aren't the only ones that have a built-in SOAP library. JavaEE does since version 6. PHP does since version 5.
These three languages make up the vast majority of web development out there, so it's not a stretch to expect other languages that have a web presence to support it as well.
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@powerlord said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
.NET languages aren't the only ones that have a built-in SOAP library. JavaEE does since version 6. PHP does since version 5.
These three languages make up the vast majority of web development out there, so it's not a stretch to expect other languages that have a web presence to support it as well.
But are they any good? Granted, I haven't done much developing (read: any) in JavaEE or PHP, but I have done SOAP work before (not by choice, I assure you) and I've never seen a SOAP library from anyone but Microsoft that actually works and covers all of the ridiculous edge cases inherent in a system as complex as WSDL and SOAP. (And different ones all tend to break in different ways, too!)
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@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@masonwheeler now you're calling me a stupid moron who can't hate oss without pretending to be someone else
I'm muting this thread now
Wow, way to put words in someone else's mouth...
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@fbmac What's up with all that trolling from you lately? First the random necros, now that blakey impression…
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@asdf said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@fbmac What's up with all that trolling from you lately? First the random necros, now that blakey impression…
...failing to realize when someone is counter-trolling by playing along with his premise...
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@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@masonwheeler I wasn't trolling, OSS and python are shit if you compare with visual studio + c#.
You do realize that C# is OSS now, don't you?
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@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@masonwheeler I wasn't trolling, OSS and python are shit if you compare with visual studio + c#.
You do realize that C# is OSS now, don't you?
Yeah, it's been OSS for 10 minutes and it's already going to shit!
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@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
I have used Python. I have never, however, used Python to work on the class of problems where Unicode-specific issues become relevant. Please clarify?
Wow, the Irony Gods have really got it in for me. This weekend I was working on a project (in Python 3) that choked because apparently
urllib
only speaks ASCII.Wasn't that supposed to be the whole point of moving from Python 2 to Python 3?
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@masonwheeler you probably need
urllib3.14159265358979323
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@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
Wasn't that supposed to be the whole point of moving from Python 2 to Python 3?
URLs themselves are particularly problematic when it comes to Unicode. There are aspects of them that are really quite amazingly complicated and painful, and that's before you start thinking about the content that you can download or upload via them (where at least you've either only got the server or yourself or some other schmuck to blame).
Will the wiseguy who invented punycode please stand up? Thank you. *bang* Lovely. *bang* Marvellous!
Will the brainiacs who put multiple characters into Unicode that always look the same please stand up?
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@dkf said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
URLs themselves are particularly problematic when it comes to Unicode. There are aspects of them that are really quite amazingly complicated and painful, and that's before you start thinking about the content that you can download or upload via them (where at least you've either only got the server or yourself or some other schmuck to blame).
All right. So what is The Right Way to do it?
Specifically, I want to query the Google Maps API for directions between major cities of the world that are located relatively close to each other. Some of these cities have non-ASCII characters in their name because they're located in non-anglophone countries. Is there a recommended way of doing this when
urllib
doesn't like non-ASCII characters?
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@masonwheeler You need to
%
-encode the names of the places. Since you're not working with the domain name part (yay!) it's nowadays just a matter of getting the Unicode name as UTF-8 bytes, and%
-encoding each of those bytes (except for the white-listed ones from the ASCII subset). The first part is the critical one, and it's the one which many developers cock up. Sounds like urllib just doesn't try (an attitude I can understand, though I wonder what happens with setting upHost
headers, as those shouldn't be left to higher-level code normally).It used to be horrible with the expected URL encodings being completely arbitrary, but we don't do that any more. UTF-8 won that fight, and the world was better for it!
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@accalia said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
What about all the libraries that are still not ported because Python 3 broke backwards compatibility too badly?
name and shame.
seriously, if there are any left that you know of, name them.
Probably one of the most important is uWSGI.
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This is a very tough discussion to follow when half the posts are deleted.
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@pydsigner said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
Probably one of the most important is uWSGI.
supports Python3.
it's a bitch to set up compared to setting it up with python3, but it's doable.
and once you set it up you don't have to touch it, and the next time you need to set it up you just copy and tweak what you did last time.
i've used it myself multiple times, and that was years ago so if anything it's probably gotten easier to use with python3.
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@mott555 the deleted posts were very elaborated and well thought out arguments against the quality of python libraries and it's poor unicode support.
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@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@mott555 the deleted posts were very elaborated and well thought out arguments against the quality of python libraries and it's poor unicode support.
no, the deleted posts were a very elaborated and well constructed proof that fermats last theorem was false.
unfortunately they did not stand up to peer review and were deleted by the moderators to stem the impending math nerd flame war.
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@accalia Oh it's on the wall of shame because it has no PyPI metadata at all. My bad.
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@pydsigner said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@accalia Oh it's on the wall of shame because it has no PyPI metadata at all. My bad.
that at least i'll grant you.
course if we let any package without pypi metadata on the wall of shame i think we'd collapse the wall under their weight.
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@accalia said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@pydsigner said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@accalia Oh it's on the wall of shame because it has no PyPI metadata at all. My bad.
that at least i'll grant you.
course if we let any package without pypi metadata on the wall of shame i think we'd collapse the wall under their weight.
If we let any package that could be verified to not support Python 3 on there it'd collapse as well, that's why it's limited to the top 200 downloaded packages.
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@Jaloopa said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@masonwheeler you probably need
urllib3.14159265358979323
One day,
requests
will be added to the stdlib. Asurllib5
, just for old times' sake.And for the .
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@accalia said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
and were deleted by the moderators
So how come it's OK to libelously accuse someone of doing their jobs?
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@boomzilla said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@accalia said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
and were deleted by the moderators
So how come it's OK to libelously accuse someone of doing their jobs?
i didn't say who.
also you are an admin, not a moderator. you're off the hook entirely
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@accalia said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
also you are an admin, not a moderator. you're off the hook entirely
If only.
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@boomzilla duplicate group entry.
https://what.thedailywtf.com/groups/administrators takes precidence over mods.
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@boomzilla said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
dunno. i'm not in the group to perform such a test.
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@boomzilla Dunno, but I do
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So glad this discussion is in my thread.
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@blakeyrat The python discussion or the mod mentioning one?
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@blakeyrat what's this thread about anyway? I don't remember
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@aliceif The everything.
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@blakeyrat for a moment I thought this was a reply to me and we got a new status thread
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@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
that choked because apparently urllib only speaks ASCII
In [1]: import requests In [2]: resp = requests.get('http://名がドメイン.com') In [3]: resp.status_code Out[3]: 200
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@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
Sorry, hard to have any sympathy here. If you are trying to use XML for anything non-trivial, that's your own fault and you absolutely deserve all of the pain that it brings upon you.
I'm sure everyone in the US writing, for example, payroll software, is happy to know that it's their own fault for adding a feature the Federal government requires (ACA 1094/95B-C reporting. Rougly speaking, if your company has more than 50 employees, you have to submit those forms via XML to the IRS.)
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@fbmac 410
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@boomzilla I can't believe you forgot the RDBMS ternary binary.
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@bb36e Blakey doesn't make mistakes. All his posts are pristine.
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@bb36e said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@accalia I like how @fbmac deleted his comment after you pointed out that he made a mistake. Can you imagine what this forum would be like if blakey did the same thing? It would be barren!
that's not what happened