Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide
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@Magus FFS you couldn't even slap it into an Excel table (or whatever OSS "product" one might use)?
Godburner Porkgorgi. Not shabby, not shabby at all...
Edit: @ben_lubar is there an equivalent name generator in DF?
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@Magus Godwilt Eternalthin
β¦ I'm not sure how I feel about that.
@Tsaukpaetra said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
FFS you couldn't even slap it into an Excel table (or whatever OSS "product" one might use)?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
gorgi
I know I didn't put in that prefix.
@Tsaukpaetra said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@Magus FFS you couldn't even slap it into an Excel table (or whatever OSS "product" one might use)?
YMBNH
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@ben_lubar is there an equivalent name generator in DF?
:runaway:
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@Magus ToenailSludge WebHoard
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@Magus said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
I know I didn't put in that prefix.
He must have looked at the last name pre-fix list when he should have been looking at the suffix list, and replaced the C in Corgi with a G.
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@abarker I hope it was actually Porkgurgle
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@abarker said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
He must have looked at the last name pre-fix list when he should have been looking at the suffix list, and replaced the C in Corgi with a G.
Yeah, my OCR apparently experienced a sliding error. Whoops.
The problem appears that since it doesn't look enough like manuscript it interpreted it as printed text, and everything was positioned by spaces.....So the corrected version should be
Godburner Porkfill
. Makes me want to smoke some steak actually...
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@Magus said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
Roight, I made my own now, and it's better and more unsafe and far more interesting. I was going to make it funnier, but I just used the first things I thought of:
Which makes me Godsmiter Eternalking, I guess.
Spoontilt orcmuppet... Ahem..
I imagine that a day may come where it's possible to communicate loads of text without embedding it in a jpeg. I wonder when someone will design software like that...
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@swayde I didn't have a wooden table handy.
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@Magus said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
I made my own now,
GodSeep SpinCorgi
..... hu-uh
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@accalia said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
SpinCorgi
The first letter of the last name is both E and A?
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@Magus , I be Visionqueller Corgisunder!
interestingly, there are Corgis in my neighborhood that could use some sundering...
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@loopback0 said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@accalia said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
SpinCorgi
The first letter of the last name is both E and A?
AH. oops.
Spinfill...... not SpinCorgi.
.... i likes my frist answer better.
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@Magus you missed the opportunity for someone to get Moonmoon Moonmoon.
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@accalia said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
SpinCorgi
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@RaceProUK thasa mesa name!
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And on the original one...
Alpha Hunter.
Sounds like a Sherrilyn Kenyon "hero"...
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@Magus Gorgonfeeler Northfill
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@accalia said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@RaceProUK thasa mesa name!
... And now you're turning into Jar Jar.
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@fbmac Psst! You! Yeah, you! I hear you like feelin' up gorgons. It just so happens I might be able to help you find a gorgon.
For the right price β¦
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@abarker said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@accalia said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@RaceProUK thasa mesa name!
... And now you're turning into Jar Jar.
ook! ook oook eeeek! oook!
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@abarker said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
For the right price β¦
I think they would take payment of many types...
Oh, you mean your price. I'm sure they would accept shared payment...
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@accalia said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
ook! ook oook eeeek! oook!
Hey, stop monkeying around.
Oh. Shit. Oh shit oh shit oh shit oh shit oh shit.
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@Dragnslcr said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
Oh. Shit. Oh shit oh shit oh shit oh shit oh shit.
Rincewind? is that you?
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@loopback0 said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@abarker Isn't yours White Fire?
That's racist.
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@Magus I'm Moonmoon Moonmoon.
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@da-Doctah said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
Cholesterol-free peanut butter. Made from peanuts without livers.
Just as well, since the whole idea of dietary cholesterol having a significant affect on serum cholesterol was already known to be hooey when people started the whole idea of low-cholesterol foods back in the 1970s.
Most larger lipids, including all sterol rings, get broken down by the combination of stomach acids and bile (which disperses the lipids so that the HCl have enough surface to affect on the otherwise hydrophobic lipid chains). The intestines cannot take up any large lipids - again, including all the ringed lipids - that make it past the stomach, so they simply get excreted. Serum cholesterol is a byproduct of various actions in the... I want to say liver, but I don't recall. Anyway, while overall lipid intake has some affect on it, most of the serum and body lipids are synthesized in situ from glucose and other precursors.
Serum cholesterol actually plays a number of important roles in blood chemistry, but like with obesity and diabetes, evolution didn't plan for the day when H. saps would have more food than sense.
Filed Under: That last part definitely applies to me; my absurd rotundity is a symptom of my psychological problems, no ifs ands or buts (though all too much butt)
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@ScholRLEA said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
my absurd rotundity is a symptom of my psychological problems, no ifs ands or buts
Both symptom and contributing factor, if my experience is applicable. Many of these things kind of smear causality around a bit.
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@Groaner said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
I prefer to go with hydrogen hydroxide or hydric acid as those are much more likely to trip people up. Especially in their anhydrous forms.
Possibly I'm confused by the nomenclature, but wouldn't it be hydroxic acid?
@Magus said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
Which makes me Godsmiter Eternalking, I guess.
It makes me Forkspiller Porksunder, which is just...wrong!
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Do we want to fork the werewolf name discussion from the DHMO discussion? @mods
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
Edit: @ben_lubar is there an equivalent name generator in DF?
I made this: https://github.com/BenLubar/dwarf-mafia/blob/master/language.go#L224
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@abarker said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
Dude, I'd be White Demon.
Get the hell out of my way.
Off by one error: index on last name is
-1
, not0
, White Fire.@accalia said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@thegoryone said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
Sodium Chloride which by it's very definition cannot be organic since it has no carbon. It's an inorganic fucking chemical compound by definition, god dammit.
you must be using a different definition of organic than i am.... because the one i'm using doesn't mention carbon. otherwise i'd have to call C02 and gasoline organic.
(Β¬C β Β¬O) β (C β O)
.- All chemical definitions I know of for 'organic' require carbon, although they disagree on any further requirements.
- CO2 is inorganic by all of them except the most inclusive.
- Petrol/Gasoline and coal are organic by all of them except maybe the vitalist one.
- I'm pretty sure you could at least cover CO2 under the USDA organic standards, and probably methane too. Just have to use the correct hook-ups to a cow, I suspect.
@accalia said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@RaceProUK said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
Chemists do, as again it's carbon chains.
Hydrocarbon Power!: Crash Course Chemistry #40 – 11:32
— CrashCourse- "a really promiscuous number of configurations"
- "Carbon is the foundation of most biological molecules. Really, all biological molecules, right? Yep." Nope. As an easy counter-example: bone mineral.
Now, I can haz pendantry badge? No?
(NB: not trying to pick on you)
@anotherusername said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@accalia Yeah, people who insist on using the chemistry definition of "organic" when they know the discussion is about food are obnoxious.
(And people who use the "everything is a chemical" definition of "chemical" are almost as obnoxious.)
@Rhywden said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@RaceProUK said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
Chemists do, as again it's carbon chains.
Coal is more one of those grey areas - I usually go for compounds including at least one heteroatom (usually hydrogen). Then you can be pretty sure it is indeed organic.
Coal can be defined as a sedimentary rock that burns. It was formed by the decomposition of plant matter, and it is a complex substance that can be found in many forms. Coal is divided into four classes: anthracite, bituminous, sub-bituminous, and lignite. Elemental analysis gives empirical formulas such as C137H97O9NS for bituminous coal and C240H90O4NS for high-grade anthracite.
@flabdablet said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@PJH said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@thegoryone said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
And we do need sodium you moon-touched druid!
And the chlorine
We don't need chlorine. Chloride Cl- yes; chlorine Cl2 not so much.
Except chlorides are defined by the inchlusion of chlorine, therefore @PJH is chorrect: we need chlorine.
@Tsaukpaetra said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@PleegWat Much appreciated (I was halfway there on Mobile when you posted)
White Warrior? Golly, have they seen my avatar? (obviously not, by I'm trying to be funny, LAUGH WITH ME DANGIT!)
The available name space of this list is quite limited. Personally, I might have gone with Optimistic Prowler.
@swayde said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
An image in my post. Didn't it load for you?
Nope, corp proxy is very prejudicial against blog sites and social media in general. Luckily nobody's submitted this domain to any lists we're apparently subscribed to.
I think you did an off by one too, White Hunter.
@Lorne-Kates said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@PleegWat
My name is Fierce E_WHITE_TEXT_ON_WHITE_BACKGROUND@loopback0 said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@RaceProUK I can't even read what the second word of mine would be because the Tumblr genius used white text against a white wolf.
Rogue something.E Red F Shadow G Storm H Beast I Bane J Dagger K Hound L Fang M Claw
@Fox said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@swayde It's rather amusing that my fursona's Werewolf Name is Ebony Fire, which is synonymous with my fursona's last name. My actual name is, somewhat less interestingly, Dark Lupe - which also has a mildly amusing coincidence which ties it back to me personally, but I don't know y'all well enough to explain why. :P
Cinder β fire.
@M_Adams said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
And on the original one...
Alpha Hunter.
:glare:
@ScholRLEA said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@da-Doctah said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
Cholesterol-free peanut butter. Made from peanuts without livers.
Just as well, since the whole idea of dietary cholesterol having a significant affect on serum cholesterol was already known to be hooey when people started the whole idea of low-cholesterol foods back in the 1970s.
Most larger lipids, including all sterol rings, get broken down by the combination of stomach acids and bile (which disperses the lipids so that the HCl have enough surface to affect on the otherwise hydrophobic lipid chains). The intestines cannot take up any large lipids - again, including all the ringed lipids - that make it past the stomach, so they simply get excreted. Serum cholesterol is a byproduct of various actions in the... I want to say liver, but I don't recall. Anyway, while overall lipid intake has some affect on it, most of the serum and body lipids are synthesized in situ from glucose and other precursors.
Huh? Cholesterol is absorbed in the small intestine and can have short term effects on serum cholesterol until homeostatic mechanisms have time to level it out.
On a related note, blood plasma samples, one of which is from some time after a fatty meal:
The right one is full of lipid packages from digestion called chylomicrons (which include cholesterol).-- signed: Alpha Beast, of the Visionwilt Spoonmuppets and the Treefloater Webarches
(Yes, I know I've been d on a lot of these.)
(And may Moon Moon of the Spoonturners help me if I've made any mistakes or committed any rampart stupidity)
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@Dreikin said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
chlorides are defined by the inchlusion of chlorine
You might as well say that chlorine is defined by the inclusion of sulphur. After all, they have sixteen protons, sixteen neutrons and sixteen electrons in common.
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@ben_lubar said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
I made this:
Edit: Oh, you renamed it 8 hours ago.
https://github.com/BenLubar/dwarf-mafia/commit/124971d09743ebefec865b588ca0b1df282eecc9
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In the early traditions of chemistry, inorganic compounds were those that could be produced by chemists and organic compounds those produced by the magic of life and therefore beyond human ken. A belief that was shot all to hell when WΓΆhler synthesized urea which, until that time, had been seen only as a product of living things.
Generally, today, organic compounds include anything containing carbon except those things arbitrarily called "inorganic" due to the tradition. CO2, for example, should probably be classified as organic, if the system weren't partly arbitrary.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
Contribute to dwarf-mafia development
Anybody got a nice meme for thanks but no thanks?
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@flabdablet said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@Dreikin said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
chlorides are defined by the inchlusion of chlorine
You might as well say that chlorine is defined by the inclusion of sulphur. After all, they have sixteen protons, sixteen neutrons and sixteen electrons in common.
Nowhere did I refer to the chlorine atom :p But sure, I should chorrect that to be even more chlear:
Chlorides are chompounds chontaining chlorine, such as hydrogen chloride (which, when in solution with water to form hydrochloric acid, is an important part of digestion in humans). Chloride itself, an ionized form of chlorine, is a chrucial chomponent in dietary intake with many chritical uses throughout the body. On the other hand, high choncentrations of chlorine are very dangerous for humans, and chlorine has even been used for chemical warfare.
Chapiche?
Also, I'd say whether 'atom' only refers to the neutral form of the element is debatable. The only way I've seen to talk about elements, ions, and atoms that is consistent with usage is:
- A nucleus is a bundle of protons and neutrons, with at least one proton.
- An atom is a nucleus and its associated electrons.
- An element is:
- The set of all atoms with a particular number of protons, or
- A substance composed solely of members of said set
- Usage note: the name of an element may be used as shorthand for an atom of that element type in some contexts, having the same meaning as if it were followed by 'atom' or 'ion'.
- A molecule is :
- An ion is an atom or molecule with unequal amounts of protons and electrons.
Usage note: 'atom' or 'molecule' may be preceded by the adjective 'neutral' to indicate a variety with an equal number of protons and electrons.
Or to put it another way, and rather roughly so, and ignoring antiparticles and unstable isotopes:
public class Nucleus { public int protons { get; } public int neutrons { get; } public Nucleus(int protons, int neutrons) { if (protons < 1) { throw new E_PROTON_NOT_FOUND_Exception(); } if (neutrons < 0) { throw new AntineutronException(); } this.protons = protons; this.neutrons = neutrons; } }
public class Atom { public Nucleus nucleus; public int electrons { get; set; } public Atom(int protons, int neutrons, int electrons) { if ( electrons < 0 ) { throw new PositronException(); } this.nucleus = new Nucleus(protons, neutrons); this.electrons = electrons; } }
public interface IElement { public int atomicNumber { get; } }
public class Chlorine : Atom, IElement { public int atomicNumber => 17; public Chlorine(int neutrons, int electrons) : base(atomicNumber, neutrons, electrons) { if ( (neutrons != 18) && (neutrons != 20) ) { throw new UnstableIsotopeException(); } } // For simplicity, unspecified neutron numbers default to the most popular isotope, 35. public Chlorine(int electrons) : this(18, electrons) {} }
Chlorine chloride = new Chlorine(18); Console.Writeline(Chemistry.isIon(chloride));
C:\> chloride.exe true C:\> |
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@Dreikin said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
Chapiche?
It took a while, but I finally chaught on.
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@Dreikin said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
Also, I'd say whether 'atom' only refers to the neutral form of the element is debatable. The only way I've seen to talk about elements, ions, and atoms that is consistent with usage is:
I've run into that particular question recently. Let me put it this way: You'll have to look very hard and long before you find a single respectable source which says that an ion is also an atom.
I myself have not managed to do so.
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@Rhywden said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@Dreikin said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
Also, I'd say whether 'atom' only refers to the neutral form of the element is debatable. The only way I've seen to talk about elements, ions, and atoms that is consistent with usage is:
I've run into that particular question recently. Let me put it this way: You'll have to look very hard and long before you find a single respectable source which says that an ion is also an atom.
I myself have not managed to do so.
Yeah, I found that out when looking....but I also found that definitions ended up defining (monatomic) ions in terms of atoms. "An ion is an atom which..." That's why my argument was about usage - they try to tap dance around (monatomic) ions being varieties of atoms without actually calling them atoms. It's like defining a human (an atom of the species Homo sapiens) in part by requiring a particular number of limbs, saying an amputee is a human that lost a limb, and then saying that an amputee is not a human. (Almost. The translation to molecules and ions is not coming to mind as easily).
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@Dreikin said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
It's like defining a human
A "plucked chicken"?
When Plato gave Socrates's definition of man as "featherless bipeds" and was much praised for the definition, Diogenes plucked a chicken and brought it into Plato's Academy, saying, \"Behold! I've brought you a man.\" After this incident, "with broad flat nails" was added to Plato's definition.
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@CoyneTheDup said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@Dreikin said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
It's like defining a human
A "plucked chicken"?
When Plato gave Socrates's definition of man as "featherless bipeds" and was much praised for the definition, Diogenes plucked a chicken and brought it into Plato's Academy, saying, \"Behold! I've brought you a man.\" After this incident, "with broad flat nails" was added to Plato's definition.Fortunately, I preempted that by saying "in part"
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@Dreikin said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
The only way I've seen to talk about elements, ions, and atoms that is consistent with usage is
[snip long and carefully constructed explanation]All trolling aside: it took me a long time to stop conceptualizing ions as simply atoms with the "wrong" number of electrons - a state of affairs with associations of incompleteness, instability and interchangeability - and start thinking of them as stable, potentially long-lived things in their own right with their own distinct ways of reacting with other stuff, akin to little molecules in many respects. The need chloride/don't need chlorine distinction is, I think, a useful way to bring that idea to the front.
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@flabdablet said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
@Dreikin said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
The only way I've seen to talk about elements, ions, and atoms that is consistent with usage is
[snip long and carefully constructed explanation]All trolling aside: it took me a long time to stop conceptualizing ions as simply atoms with the "wrong" number of electrons - a state of affairs with associations of incompleteness, instability and interchangeability - and start thinking of them as stable, potentially long-lived things in their own right with their own distinct ways of reacting with other stuff, akin to little molecules in many respects. The need chloride/don't need chlorine distinction is, I think, a useful way to bring that idea to the front.
I can see what you mean, and I think we're on the same page with the gist of it, but the differing definitions kind of cover that up. I think of atoms pretty much the way I put it above: nuclei with their associated electrons (which may be none) - to me 'atom' is kind of parallel to 'element', and just like the different kinds of elements are different from each other, the different kinds of atoms are different from each other. The major difference is that elements have one dimension of variability (proton count), atoms two or three (proton and electron counts, and maybe neutron counts), and isotopes three (proton, neutron, and electron counts). So I see chlorine and chloride as different atomic types but the same element type, if you get my drift.
EDIT:
Thinking about it, a slightly different classification scheme might be this:- elements: proton dimension
- ions: proton & electron dimensions
- isotopes: proton & neutron dimensions
- atoms: proton, neutron, & electron dimensions.
I think this fits some usage better than what I initially said above, except that you have to allow ions to have 0 charge (which seems fine to me). Except you lose the stretching of 'ion' across atom count - it's no longer approximately 'charged particle' but 'atoms that vary by atomic number and charge', which seems harder to compensate for than having 'atom' cover the second and third classes (with which one it means dependent on context).
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@Luhmann said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
Anybody got a nice meme for thanks but no thanks?
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@RaceProUK
Close enough for this purpose
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@flabdablet said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
it took me a long time to stop conceptualizing ions as simply atoms with the "wrong" number of electrons
Reality is always more complicated than any simple model. An atom of oxygen all by itself is one of the most reactive (and hence unstable) chemical entities known; IIRC it will even manage to react with some of the noble gases. It's also just about entirely unknown on Earth β it's gone before you can do much to detect it β but I believe it has been detected in deep space, where everything is so much more tenuous that hyper-reactive entities can have relatively long lifetimes. Conversely, oxide ions (specifically ones with an oxygen in oxidation state -2) are highly stable despite being really quite concentratedly negative in terms of their charge.
A better model to use is in terms of electron shells; oxide is stable because it has a complete electron shell (i.e., the same electron configuration as neon). That is itself a partial model, but it is much less built on lies than where you were starting from.
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@Dreikin said in Organic Farm Denies Use of Dihydrogen Monoxide:
So I see chlorine and chloride as different atomic types but the same element type, if you get my drift.
They have a common interior but different outside shapes, and that makes them behave like different substances. So whether or not you see one as belonging in the same category as the other depends on whether you're classifying by structure or by function.
Because high-school science taught me so firmly that ions "are simply" atoms with charge added or removed, it took me a long time to understand that the formation of monatomic ions, just like that of molecules, requires specific reactions under specific conditions, and that ions can be quite stable and long-lived and participate in further reactions that are simply not accessible to their neutral counterparts; from a chemical (and therefore biological) point of view, ions are the fundamental units of a whole different substance that generally shares very few physical properties with that composed of the neutral forms with the same nuclei. It generally can't even exist in pure form, for starters, because it would tear itself apart with electrostatic repulsion; it needs to form crystals with other ions of the opposite charge, or be in solution.
Dissolve a teaspoon of sodium chloride and a teaspoon of potassium chloride in water, and what you end up with is water containing dissolved Na+, dissolved K+ and dissolved Cl-. There is no "sodium chloride" nor "potassium chloride" to be found in the water, because those substances are not molecular and exist only as bulk crystals, which dissolution destroys.