Jeffed Car Talk - Now with Trainwrecks, Formerly with Manual Gearboxes
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Even the most incompetent driver should be able to tell when the clutch is worn.
That, too -- which makes the idea of scheduled clutch jobs that much more of a
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When the car salesman opened up the hood of my current car, he explained that the (automatic) transmission was sealed, good for 200k miles, and "they don't want you touching it." Considering that this same transmission is used in some of their heavy trucks and SUVs, and that some of the performance shops have found the torque converter to be good for 500+ RWHP, I'm inclined to believe him.
May one ask which year/make/model this is?
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engineuity
That pun deserves death.
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found the torque converter to be good for 500+ RWHP
I'm not sure I believe that. I mean, how many of those 500+ RWHP doctors and nurses even know what a torque converter is?
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These two were on Top Gear tonight:
The one on the right is lush, but the one on the left made me feel all funny and fuzzy inside…
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So both are Jags, one's left hand drive and one's right hand drive. I seem to remember some ranting about one arrangement being superior over the other.
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I think I'll stick to declutching properly; save shredding the dog gears
If you can't find 'em, grind 'em
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I taught our seventeen-year-old how to operate a car. I'm currently teaching our ten-year-old how to operate the same car. It's my car. It's a manual.
I used the handbrake hill start in the very first lesson as their introduction to clutch control. Both of them caught on very quickly, neither of them now has to think much about the physical process of changing gears, and both do so competently.
The ten-year-old is still restricted to the back paddock, of course; I wouldn't put a child who still needs cushions to be able to see out the front on the road. But the seventeen-year-old has now logged over eighty hours of road driving, has done at least as much again without bothering with the log book, and treats both finding the right line through corners and bends and doing smooth quick shifts as skills whose continuous improvement is to be both sought and enjoyed. She is already somebody I would not hesitate to give a full licence to, were that within my power.
I live in a country where manual and auto transmissions are on the roads in roughly equal numbers. I think people who learn auto first and then move to manual usually have a much tougher time learning how to operate their machinery safely than people who do it the other way around, simply because they expect more of it to work by magic and less by physics.
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I used the handbrake hill start in the very first lesson as their introduction to clutch control.
Next you have to get them to do the "left turn in a manual while eating" maneuver. It's extra fun when the turn is long enough so that you have to shift into second halfway through the turn.
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If everyone used automatic transmissions, I wouldn't have the series of photos that let me make this...
More:
This isn't a value judgement, I just saw an opportunity to break those out
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It's extra fun when the turn is long enough so that you have to shift into second halfway through the turn.
The solution there is either to have tall gears or enough torque to start in a higher gear.
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that's easy, you just use your knee to turn the wheel while you shift.
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And that is related to having a manual transmission ... how?
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And that is related to having a manual transmission ... how?
The car was parked, and left in neutral instead of in gear.1It was operator error, but it's an error that can't be made on automatics.2
1Or at least that's my memory of what I heard happened. That was almost 9 years ago, and while I took those photos I only heard the story of what happened secondhand, or probably rather more than secondhand.)
2Or at least almost all automatics.
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You aren't an expert stick handler until you ran down hill chasing after your car.
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She is already somebody I would not hesitate to give a full licence to, were that within my power.
I got my full license while I was still 17. It was great to be able to drive to school, and then after school to just go for a drive out in the countryside, just to see what was out there in somewhere I'd never been to before…
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This post is deleted!
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Where we live, she's not eligible for a probationary licence (which lets her drive unsupervised) until she turns 18 and has logged at least 120 hours of supervised driving.
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The car was parked, and left in neutral instead of in gear.1
It was operator error, but it's an error that can't be made on automatics.2
Automatics can be left in neutral when parked. Modern cars may make that error less likely by preventing you from removing your key when the transmission is in neutral (not sure, I haven't been outside to check mine since you posted last night my local time), but if, say, you're in a rural area and pull over to hop out and pee, you might not take your keys. Operator error is operator error.
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Where we live, she's not eligible for a probationary licence (which lets her drive unsupervised) until she turns 18 and has logged at least 120 hours of supervised driving.
That's a lot stricter than (most or all states, I think) in the US. Learner's permit at 15.5; license at 16. Nowadays, I think in at least some states that first license has some restrictions (and may have a different colored background from someone who is old enough to buy alcohol), but in my day it was exactly the same license as that of someone who'd been driving for decades.
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It varies. In Missouri we could get permits at 15, Iowa was 14. There was a kid in my class who went to school with us in Missouri but claimed Iowa residency with his father (we were like 5 miles from the state border) just so he could get a permit before everyone else.
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In the UK you can get a provisional license at 17, which allows you to drive with a passenger who's over 21 and had a full license for over 3 years. No restriction on logged hours or anything, you get a full license as soon as you pass the test.
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In Ontario there's a graduated system: At 16 you can take a written test for a G1 license that allows you to drive with a four-year experienced driver beside you. A year after that (or 8 months if you take a driving course) you can take the G1 exit (road) test and get a G2. This lets you do pretty much anything except have a drink. After a year in G2, you can take the G2 exit and get the full G license, which allows up to 0.08% BAC.
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@EvanED said:
Fine. Change "can't be made" to "is far less likely".it's an error that can't be made on automatics
Automatics can be left in neutral when parked. ...
Operator error is operator error.
No, I disagree. The design of things matters. That's why, e.g., plane companies will sometimes change the design of their instruments or maintenance procedures or whatever in response to crashes caused by pilot error or maintenance mistakes.Like I said, I don't really want to be saying that I think that manuals are bad based on this; but I think that saying there's not a difference in the "left in neutral" case is basically denying reality.
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The design of things matters.
QFT
But I absolutely hate the brake/gearshift/ignition-key interlock system I've had inflicted on me in some hirecars in the US. An entirely new car of a marque I've never driven before is hard enough to drive without that sort of shenanigans; please let me make it off the parking lot without making a fool of myself…
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That's a lot stricter than (most or all states, I think) in the US. Learner's permit at 15.5; license at 16. Nowadays, I think in at least some states that first license has some restrictions (and may have a different colored background from someone who is old enough to buy alcohol), but in my day it was exactly the same license as that of someone who'd been driving for decades.
AZ and WA you can get your license at 16. Both give drivers under 21 a license printed in portrait instead of landscape. Since AZ licenses don't until age 65 (and I believe every 5 years after that), they also include a "21 on" date. I don't know about restrictions in AZ, but in WA there are night driving restrictions for the first year or two (they were implemented after I got my license, but my brother wasn't so lucky.)
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Operator error is operator error.
Unless you're in an Airbus and the stupid joystick is wired to average the inputs of both pilots, with zero feedback either haptive or visual as to what the other pilot's input is. A.k.a. Air France Flight 447.
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logged at least 120 hours of supervised driving.
how does she log the hours?
seems to be a good way to be sure that someone knows how to drive. but i think it might be hard to implement everywhere
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That's a lot stricter than (most or all states, I think) in the US.
Victoria is the strictest state in Australia. Youngest learner's permit at 16; P1 probationary licence at 18, conditional on having completed 120 hours of supervised driving on L, plus passing a computerized hazard perception test, a live driving test and and an eyesight test. P2 probationary after 12 months good driving with P1; full licence after 3 years good driving with P2, which makes 22 the minimum age for a full licence.
P1 drivers must not carry more than one passenger between 16 and 22 years old (this is intended to limit the "feral pack of young dickheads" effect) and must not tow trailers or other cars.
P1 and P2 drivers must not drive with any detectable blood alcohol content, must not use a mobile phone (including handsfree) and must not drive a high performance car.
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how does she log the hours?
In her official VicRoads log book, with every single entry signed by the supervising driver.
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P1 and P2 drivers must not drive with any detectable blood alcohol content, must not use a mobile phone (including handsfree) and must not drive a high performance car.
All V8 engines are "high performance"? Even big trucks that can barely move with a V8?
has a power to mass ratio of greater than 130 kilowatts per tonne, or
Ok, the "cars made after 2010" rules actually make fucking sense.
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so, it's a honor system?
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Shouldn't it be the other way around? Left it in gear instead of neutral?
Or do people turn it off and leave it in gear so you can't turn on the car without pressing the clutch? I don't get it. Is it an automatic thing?
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If it's in gear you can't move it without turning the engine over, so there's a very large braking force.
I usually leave my car in neutral with the handbrake on though. Forgetting it's in gear leads to lurching forward when you turn the key
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Shouldn't it be the other way around? Left it in gear instead of neutral?
No?I don't drive stick1, but my understanding is when you park, you should put it into the lowest gear, either 1 or R. The car is easy to move in N, and putting it in gear means that resistance from the engine makes it harder.
1 I'd like to learn, but I don't know if I know anyone who has one.
(Hanzo'd, but I'll post anyway.)
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Forgetting it's in gear leads to lurching forward when you turn the key
one of the first things i learned about driving was "you always press the clutch when starting the engine. always"
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I usually leave my car in neutral with the handbrake on though. Forgetting it's in gear leads to lurching forward when you turn the key
Our farmtruck was a manual, and someone (not me) parked it in neutral with the handbrake set. We found out the hard way that 1,800-pound bulls have more than enough strength to overcome the handbrake and roll the truck. Steep hills can have a similar effect.
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Yeah, I guessed as much, but everyone I know just leaves it in neutral since I live in a mostly flat city and handbrake is usually enough.
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honor system?
Each entry has start time, finish time, start km, finish km, supervisor's licence number and signature (among other things). As a supervising driver I would lose my licence and pay a heavy fine if I were detected as having signed falsified entries. That's not something I'd be willing to risk just to do a favour for somebody who simply can't be arsed driving and logging their 120 hours, especially given that they have two years to do that.
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big trucks that can barely move with a V8
need a different licence class in Victoria, which you're not eligible to apply for until you already have a full car licence.
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one of the first things i learned about driving was "you always press the clutch when starting the engine. always"
Ms. flabdablet's Hyundai has a switch on the clutch pedal that enforces that rule.
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enough strength to overcome the handbrake
Best practice for parking any car is to park it with the steering set toward the kerb as well as leaving it in gear (for a manual) or in Park (for an auto) with the handbrake on. Turning the ignition key to the position where you can remove it usually locks the steering, so even if it does roll it generally won't get far.
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My hometown doesn't have curbs. Nor sidewalks. And neither did our farm.
Many residents would argue it doesn't even have roads, rather just loosely-scattered piles of gravel with large holes every couple dozen feet.
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I don't drive stick1, but my understanding is when you park, you should put it into the lowest gear, either 1 or R.
That's correct, though I was only ever taught to do it when parked on a reasonable slope, it's unnecessary on the flat. The handbrake should be enough to hold the car, but leaving it in gear is a good failsafe. It's also recommended, when parking on a hill, to leave it with the wheels turned a little towards the kerb so that if the brakes do fail the . car will go to the side of the road - and hopefully stop on the kerb - instead of out into traffic.
one of the first things i learned about driving was "you always press the clutch when starting the engine. always"
Alternatively you can always waggle the gearstick from side to side before starting it. And never start it without the handbrake on so if you do start it in gear you'll only go a few inches and then stall. (A friend of mine did once manage to mistake both of these tests though, and drove through the wall of her house. But she's an American and not used to driving a manual.)
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when parking on a hill, to leave it with the wheels turned a little towards the kerb
Specifically, you turn to the kerb when parking downhill, and away from when parking uphill ;)
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The handbrake should be enough to hold the car
Don't count on it. I've seen people drive for miles with it on. The brake got red hot, but it didn't put up that much resistance.
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I said should, not is.
And I have a suspicion that people who end up driving miles with the brake on also have badly worn brakes.
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It's an algebraic sum, unless one of the pilots pushes the sidestick-priority buttons (left or right), which allow for a full takeover of input. The net result on the controls is roughly the same as two pilots acting on the controls, save for the lack of tactile feedback...
(Sidenote: the latest Gulfstream bizjets will have force-feedback sidesticks in the cockpit, so this problem will likely be confined to the dustbin of history in 30 years' time)
