Cards Against Humanity is like if I got control of a successful e-commerce site
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And why are they held to a different standard that puts them above ridicule?
Those that are admired, that are succeeding in life, won the genetic lottery, etc, generally do not need protection. They have general acceptance. The occasional ribbing won't hurt them, partly because it is only occasional. Those that are part of the majority, also generally do not need protection for many of the same reasons.
Members of a marginalised minority are not admired, not succeeding (or may feel as though they are not due to lack of general acceptance), have lost the genetic lottery, etc. These people don't see occasional ribbing, they see constant attacks of varying ferocity. They are victims of violent crimes, suicides and many negative experiences at a much higher rate. Picking on a trans person because they are trans is just dogpiling on somebody who really doesn't need it.
a group of friends
who know each other
Friends, people who know each other. Try making a racist joke to someone you don't know, see how that turns out for you.
laughing at these stereotypes and exposing them as arbitrary and ridiculous
That's all good when you're with friends, but the laughter won't seem directed at the stereotype for a member of a marginalised minority. It will seem directed at the person.
your credibility is inversely proportional to your "privilege."
You can safely ignore that SJW bullshit.
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They are victims of violent crimes
Yes, this is unfortunate. I think the solution is to prosecute those crimes, punish the guilty, and perhaps the more rational will eventually notice that said marginal groups are afforded equal protection.
Friends, people who know each other. Try making a racist joke to someone you don't know, see how that turns out for you.
What if we could get to the point where such things were not viewed as personal attacks?
You can safely ignore that SJW bullshit.
Glad we agree on that much. It's very difficult these days, as they appear to be making every effort to cram it down our throats from every corner of the Internets.
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I think you guys missed the part of the article where they discuss the not-cool factor when it comes to picking on marginalised minorities.
No, I didn't miss that at all.
There's being offensively funny, then there's being an offensive dick...being a decent human being.
Cards Against Humanity
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One of the Asian guys might make a comment about fried chicken to one of the black guys, and then he'd make a retort about rickshaws or railroads.
- What, Yanks can't like their fried chicken too?
- At this point in time, we wouldn't care if a bunch of Martians showed up and offered to lay track for us -- we'd hire them in a heartbeat!
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What, Yanks can't like their fried chicken too?
That's my standard lunch. Two thighs deep fried for 11 min at 350°. Sprinkle with some adobo seasoning and enjoy.
A better example might be saying that a black guy couldn't sell watermelons.
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I think you guys missed the part of the article where they discuss the not-cool factor when it comes to picking on marginalised minorities. Picking on Lance Armstrong because he has only one testicle is okay because he kicked cancer's arse then took a lot of drugs to cheat at cycling. Picking on a group that already suffers from bullying and has a significantly higher rate of being the victim of violent crime than anybody other than an open atheist in Saudi Arabia is not cool.
There's being offensively funny, then there's being an offensive dick. The Cards Against Humanity guys obviously understand the difference. That's not "caving to the SJWs", it's not "lacking a sense of humour", it's called being a decent human being.
I just hear, "I am a SJW, I am a SJW, I am a SJW" when I read that. The people who were bitching so much were playing a game that is INTENDED TO OFFEND PEOPLE. They then got all pissy when part of said game is found to be offensive to a group that they feel a connection to. They are fucking hypocrites, and I would argue they are the worst kind of hypocrite.
So let's list the groups of people that they DID NOT get all pissy about:
- Dwarves/Little People/whatever the fuck we are supposed to call them now
- Steven Hawking
- People with AIDS
- Any group that eugenics has been used against
- People who suffer from depression
- Amputees
- Jewish people
- Victims of gang violence
- Jewish people again
- Victims of incest
- Victims of the Rwandan genocide
- The Handicapped
- The obese
- Nickelback fans (they were asking for it)
- The Japanese
- Gay people
- People who have had back alley abortions
- The Women's Suffrage movement
- The entire 3rd world
- Mexicans
- Teenage pregnancy
- Anyone with a dead parent
- Necrophiliacs
- Anyone with an Oedipus Complex
- Victims of the Virginia Tech massacre
- The Special Olympics
- Anyone who was a civilian casualty in a war
- Victims of genocide
- The homeless
- AIDS sufferers, again
- People who have had their Civil Rights violated
- Oprah, for being overweight
- Lepers
- The Make-A-Wish Foundation
- Farm animals (or those being raped by a hillbilly like in Deliverance, it is hard to tell)
- Victims of terrorism
- Black people
- Stroke victims
- Jewish people (again)
- Victims of Native American oppression
- Girls who have had abortions
- Rape victims
- The Japanese (again)
- Italians
- Victims of child abuse
- Muslims
- Gypsies
- Holocaust victims
- Victims of rape by Catholic priests
- Dwarves, again
- Holocaust victims, again
- Gays, again
- Gays, again (not a double, a separate card from #52)
- Kids with cancer
- The victims of Hurricane Katrina
- Asians
- All minorities
- Victims of police brutality
- Meth addicts
- People with Down's Syndrome, and also in a way an insult against Chinese people of Mongol ancestr
- The Amish
- Victims of terrorism
- ALL women
So they went past all of that, and then got fucking offended by "A passable transvestite"? Fuck those guys and fuck everyone on Tumblr that got all pissy about it.
Look over the list above. Your statement that
There's being offensively funny, then there's being an offensive dick. The Cards Against Humanity guys obviously understand the difference. That's not "caving to the SJWs", it's not "lacking a sense of humour", it's called being a decent human being.
..is just bullshit, and so is
Those that are admired, that are succeeding in life, won the genetic lottery, etc, generally do not need protection. They have general acceptance. The occasional ribbing won't hurt them, partly because it is only occasional. Those that are part of the majority, also generally do not need protection for many of the same reasons.
Members of a marginalised minority are not admired, not succeeding (or may feel as though they are not due to lack of general acceptance), have lost the genetic lottery, etc. These people don't see occasional ribbing, they see constant attacks of varying ferocity. They are victims of violent crimes, suicides and many negative experiences at a much higher rate. Picking on a trans person because they are trans is just dogpiling on somebody who really doesn't need it.
"A passable transvestite" is not even 1/100th as offensive as some of the other cards in the deck.
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For anyone who wants reference, you can view all of the base cards at:
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Offensive humour is hilarious until it offends me or my friends, then it's instantly beyond the pale
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Offensive humour is hilarious until it offends me or my friends, then it's instantly beyond the pale
This is true. There are categories of jokes I find offensive and unfunny though I'd laugh at the equivalent version targeting other groups.
But my response isn't to go on a national crusade against whatever it was, instead I ignore it and move on with life.
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Yup. I'll ask people not to make certain types of jokes while I'm around and get pissed off if they ignore my explicit request, but don't give a shit what they say when I'm not around.. Similarly, if a joke I don't like is on TV I'll ignore it if it's a one off or change the channel if it's a longer piece. I particularly didn't like I'd take it out of the deck.
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ensive humour is hilarious until it offends me or my friends, then it's instantly beyond the pale
Damn right!
I know what I am about to say borders on victim-blaming (hell, it is victim-blaming, I guess), but people need to just stop getting fucking offended. If you are not offended, the words and statements lose meaning.
An anecdote from my high school days: I grew up in a town that was almost 100% people of German ancestry. Our biggest rival in sports was a town that was predominately people of Italian ancestry. They referred to everyone from my town as "flat heads" (an ethnic slur against Germans) and we always referred to them as "Dagos" or "Guineas" (slurs against Italians). I am fairly sure that at some point in the past these were terms used with the intent of being the offensive slurs that they are. By the time it got to my generation though, they were just words. I was well in to my high school years before I even realized that these were offensive terms. My generation, instead of getting all SJW on the situation, just accepted them as nick names. I had a lot of friends from the other town and our accepted friendly greetings were, "What's up you Dago bastard?", followed by "Not much, you fucking flat head."
A few years ago, I strike up a conversation at a meeting of local businessmen with a fellow. As we get to talking we realize that we both grew up in the respective towns. As soon as I told him where I was from I was greeted with, "You damned flathead."...and it felt like home.
Words and phrases only have the meanings that you allow them to.
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But my response isn't to go on a national crusade against whatever it was, instead I ignore it and move on with life.
Agree, and if i do decide to remove the card from the deck (which i've to date only done with the pacman card) i just do it quietly and move on.
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Agree, and if i do decide to remove the card from the deck (which i've to date only done with the pacman card) i just do it quietly and move on.
Why the Pacman card?
I'd search the PDF to find it, but the cards are rendered as images instead of text
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Why the Pacman card?
I would imagine it was not because it was offensive, but because it was disgusting. ;)
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I'd search the PDF to find it, but the cards are rendered as images instead of text
Page 24
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Meh, I could probably come up with something more disgusting
I could, and have. If I started my own fork of CaH, I would no doubt have the Tumblr world all atwitter.
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Meh, I could probably come up with something more disgusting
it was more because that one hit me right in the childhood.
the cognitive dissonance was a bit too much.
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it was more because that one hit me right in the childhood.
the cognitive dissonance was a bit too much.
Hmm... that card doesn't bother me in the slightest. Then again, I've never been all that bothered about some yellow circle that pops pills to the sound of pounding techno. Or maybe I've just seen so much dodgy Sonic art, nothing fazes me anymore...
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@Intercourse said:
So they went past all of that, and then got fucking offended by "A passable transvestite"? Fuck those guys and fuck everyone on Tumblr that got all pissy about it.
As Steve Sailor would tell you, "World War T." It's the successor of World War G, which has been fought and (pretty much) won.
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This is true. There are categories of jokes I find offensive and unfunny though I'd laugh at the equivalent version targeting other groups.
I can often see the humor in them, though. The context is important.
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As Steve Sailor would tell you, "World War T." It's the successor of World War G, which has been fought and (pretty much) won.
I really don't even see why the card is offensive. So...it is a transvestite...that is able to pass for the gender they are dressing like? I mean, it sounds like a compliment?
I also have nothing against anyone who is LGBT(add any acronyms I am forgetting here, I cannot keep up with such movements). I have several gay friends. I have nothing personally against anyone who is transvestite/transgendered. To be very honest, it makes me a little uncomfortable, but to each their own. If that is what a person is, shine on you crazy diamond.
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@Intercourse said:
I really don't even see why the card is offensive.
Me either.
I'm maybe over simplifying the issue a little, but if we want people of any minority to be treated the same as any other minority (or majority) then shouldn't they be as likely a target for jokes as any other?
By saying "Hey, you can take the piss out of the Gays and the Jews but not Transvestites" then the people who are claiming to stand up for them are actually saying "Hey, treat these people differently" and that's not cool.
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@Intercourse said:
I really don't even see why the card is offensive.
I don't really see that either. For slightly different reason. The card alone is not a joke. It's the combination of black and white card that make up a joke. And that joke can make fun of the thing on the black card, of the thing on the white card, both of them, or be lame. Just use the card in round where it turns up the first option (and from brief look it seems to me that is the more common option).
Some time ago I read a rather reasonable position on rape jokes: You can mention rape in jokes, just don't make fun of the victim. And here I really think there are opportunities to use that card so the point is whatever is compared to "a passable transvestite" and not transvestites.
Edit: Hm, reading the black cards again the first case does not seem to be as represented. Still, people should be able to make a bit fun of themselves. Or not play this kind of game.
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Hmm... that card doesn't bother me in the slightest. Then again, I've never been all that bothered about some yellow circle that pops pills to the sound of pounding techno. Or maybe I've just seen so much dodgy Sonic art, nothing fazes me anymore...
given that i removed the card years ago and have since had the (dis)pleasure of playing several games with my mother.... i probably wouldn't be bothered by that card anymore.
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@Intercourse said:
I really don't even see why the card is offensive. So...it is a transvestite...that is able to pass for the gender they are dressing like? I mean, it sounds like a compliment?
I really don't get why a lot of things that I'm told are offensive are actually offensive. This is probably a personal problem, but it sometimes seems like any mention of certain characteristics are deemed offensive.
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The pacman card is one of my favorites. That and "a big black dick" from expansion 1.
We play at the bar. Everybody has their own buttons, which is why the game is fun. I can't imagine any situation where anyone could be seriously offended by a game where the actual idea is to offend each other.
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We play at the bar.
hmm havent played there yet. Denny's was less than ammused at us playing that game there.
weh we play we tent to also have the universe play. every round the universe plays the correct number of white cards blind and can win if it comes up with good ones. :-D
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But my response isn't to go on a national crusade against whatever it was, instead I ignore it and move on with life.
See, there you're just showing your privileged status, you racist prick. A marginalized minority just can't do that, because they're marginalized. They need SJWs to protect them.
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Some time ago I read a rather reasonable position on rape jokes: You can mention rape in jokes, just don't make fun of the victim.
Even there, some people think rape jokes about people in prison are funny.
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Some time ago I read a rather reasonable position on rape jokes: You can mention rape in jokes, just don't make fun of the victim.
Best rape joke: a character who's "if you try that crap with me, the joke's on you"
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weh we play we tent to also have the universe play. every round the universe plays the correct number of white cards blind and can win if it comes up with good ones.
Have been wanting to add that element. We're getting too good at holding onto cards that will push specific people's buttons, so adding an element of random should help. Will add it on Monday. Also need to tweak our take on the Gambler rule (wager a point to double your play). At present we can wager additional points to go to triple-play or whatnot. It doesn't feel particularly balanced as-is because a player on a good run can basically dump their entire hand. Probably need to cap at 1 extra play per player.
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I think the solution is to prosecute those crimes, punish the guilty, and perhaps the more rational will eventually notice that said marginal groups are afforded equal protection.
That is absolutely part of the solution, but it isn't the whole solution. There are many actions towards people in need of protection that aren't illegal, and shouldn't be illegal. "Jokes" and poor social attitude towards marginalised groups is exactly what makes them marginalised and sets them up for violence and hate crimes. That marginalisation can create attitudes that pervade those who are responsible for investigating and prosecuting those crimes. We've seen it in the past with lynch mobs going unpunished and white police officers getting away with murder of black detainees on video.
What if we could get to the point where such things were not viewed as personal attacks?
Notice the targets of the humour in that video? That's racist humour done right, in that it's not racist humour, it's humour about racism.
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Hmmmm. I don't think that's how that works.
Depends how short-sighted you want to be, I guess.
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@Intercourse said:
I just hear, "I am a SJW, I am a SJW, I am a SJW" when I read that.
On this forum where pointing out any antisocial behaviour gets that label it doesn't really mean much when you try it on me.
@Intercourse said:
let's list the groups of people that they DID NOT get all pissy about
So apparently the Cards Against Humanity guys still need to review a few cards. The article said many (most? I don't remember and can't be bothered reading again) of the earlier cards have been retired. You think that they shouldn't try to improve what they do?
@Intercourse said:
is just bullshit
Says you, but you didn't say why. You went with "Nuh uh!" instead.
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So apparently the Cards Against Humanity guys still need to review a few cards.
The game is literally about offending people. None of the cards are going to be pulled because they're too offensive.
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None of the cards are going to be pulled because they're too offensive.
Except, apparently, that trans one?
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Except, apparently, that trans one?
And a whole bunch of others, according to the article.
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There's a group I occasionally play CAH with who have an entire system in place for removing cards from the game if someone doesn't like it. CAH appeals to the sort of people who do that, for some reason.
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There are many actions towards people in need of protection that aren't illegal, and shouldn't be illegal. "Jokes" and poor social attitude towards marginalised groups is exactly what makes them marginalised and sets them up for violence and hate crimes. That marginalisation can create attitudes that pervade those who are responsible for investigating and prosecuting those crimes. We've seen it in the past with lynch mobs going unpunished and white police officers getting away with murder of black detainees on video.
I'm having difficulty reconciling the second and third sentence with the first. So jokes aren't illegal and shouldn't be illegal, and yet they contribute heavily to violence and hate crimes? The implication I seem to be getting out of this is that if we could somehow reduce or eliminate jokes against marginalized groups, it might do wonders to reduce police brutality and violent mobs.
We have perfectly good laws on the books that could be used to bring justice upon murderers. If those laws are not going to be enforced, or are only going to be enforced selectively, then there are much greater problems. I'm skeptical that someone who's willing to end a life under racist pretenses will have his/her hand stayed by enforced political correctness.
Notice the targets of the humour in that video? That's racist humour done right, in that it's not racist humour, it's humour about racism.
My takeaway was that racism is present in everyone, that we should not perceive it as a personal attack, and that we should laugh about it rather than self-flagellate.
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Except, apparently, that trans one?
Which, along with the others mentioned in the article, is still actually in the PDF copy.
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I feel like a lot of people are missing the point here, that cards against humanity didn't ‘cave’ to anybody. They accepted and understood the hurt people's feelings, and removed the card from their deck, because they didn't want to hurt anyone else. Because jokes at a specific person or group's expense are very risky, as far as any objective utilitarian analysis is concerned, and the only responsible way for a company in CAH's position to act would be to acknowledge and attempt to repair any hurt that their product might end up causing.
I love being offensive, and I hate the idea that I might hurt anyone without knowing it, and all of yall bitching and moaning about people who actually speak up when they feel uncomfortable about something are really getting me down, because I don't see any other way of reconciling those two things.
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"Jokes" and poor social attitude towards marginalised groups is exactly what makes them marginalised and sets them up for violence and hate crimes.
Oh that's just bullshit. Look, I can come up with about a hundred of jokes about computer nerds. Does that make IT guys a marginalized group? Are they experiencing problems with violence and hate crimes? No, because they're just jokes, a play on stereotypes.
I feel like a lot of people are missing the point here, that cards against humanity didn't ‘cave’ to anybody. They accepted and understood the hurt people's feelings, and removed the card from their deck, because they didn't want to hurt anyone else. Because jokes at a specific person or group's expense are very risky, as far as any objective utilitarian analysis is concerned, and the only responsible way for a company in CAH's position to act would be to acknowledge and attempt to repair any hurt that their product might end up causing.
Look, everybody knows what they're getting into when they're playing this game. If you seriously can't stand being joked about, talk about it among the group you're playing with, not cause a global uproar about how an offensive game is offensive. And especially don't try to pull off the "oh, it's cool to joke about everyone and everything, except $group, that's a hate crime and Hitler stuff" stunt.
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That's all good when you're with friends
I only play games with my friends, so it should be fine. I'm glad we agree.
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The bottom line is: try not to hurt anybody. If a group of people don't like to be joked about, a rational person would consider the benefit they stand to gain from joking about that group, the potential harm they could do to that group by joking about them, the likelihood of that actually happening, etc before making a joke. From what I can tell, Cards Against Humanity considered those things, decided that the ‘passable transvestite’ joke wasn't worth it, and removed it from their game, which was a decision they were free to make.
I just don't see what your basis is for trying to prevent people from complaining about stuff on the internet.
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the potential harm they could do to that group by joking about them
is 0, for anybody of any group.
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I feel like a lot of people are missing the point here, that cards against humanity didn't ‘cave’ to anybody.
Sure they did. However, I'd probably have made the same decision as they did, since they're running a business. That doesn't mean I would have liked it. I'll bet the guy who makes the decision to stop the occasional McRib sightings wishes he could let it go on forever, too, but pork prices gonna pork.
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The bottom line is: try not to hurt anybody. If a group of people don't like to be joked about, a rational person would consider the benefit they stand to gain from joking about that group, the potential harm they could do to that group by joking about them, the likelihood of that actually happening, etc before making a joke.
Sure, but it's not that simple, because you're unlikely to get an entire group to agree. Some probably find the card hilarious and feel marginalized because a card about them got taken out. It's a judgment call and a business decision.
I just don't see what your basis is for trying to prevent people from complaining about stuff on the internet.
Oh, man, we could go back and forth with this all week!
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The rule I've seen that I try to live by: Always punch up, never punch down. Mocking someone who is in power does little to remove their power base, and therefore, is funny. Mocking someone who's down on their luck is just mean. If someone's being bullied for something, mocking them is bullying. Mocking the bully is totally cool though.
