Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?
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@HardwareGeek said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@PleegWat said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
My parents are a few years too young to be boomers
I just realized that, not only am I older than most of you, in some cases, I'm older than your parents. :sad_belt_onion:
Now do the same sentence with @pie_flavor.
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@topspin I'm theoretically old enough to be the grandparents' age of some of the youngest (college-age or just past, which I believe includes @pie_flavor) people here, although most people in our modern society don't have kids early enough (~20) for that to be probable. In reality, I don't even have infant grandkids yet (although, in theory, that could happen any time, but it's fairly unlikely), much less quasi-adult grandkids.
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status: introducing grandpa's Geek and D.!
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
status: introducing grandpa's Geek and D.!
introducing Grandpa's D?!
Uhh...... well if that's what you're into i guess?
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@Vixen said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
status: introducing grandpa's Geek and D.!
introducing Grandpa's D?!
Uhh...... well if that's what you're into i guess?
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@levicki OK, boomer.
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
"I am dismissing everything you say because I think you are out of touch" while actually not giving any thought to the real cause of disagreement nor attempting to get to the bottom of it and settle things like normal adults.
Unfortunately, that seems to be the new "normal adult" behavior these days.
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
As for the "OK, boomer" thing -- it is a dangerous generalization. It also means "I am dismissing everything you say because I think you are out of touch" while actually not giving any thought to the real cause of disagreement nor attempting to get to the bottom of it and settle things like normal adults.
Is it, though? Is it any worse than "I'm dismissing everything you say because you're from Europe and America is better?" Or "because you're a Democrat and I'm a Republican?" Or "because you're a Protestant and I'm a Catholic?"
None of those ways of thinking are great, of course. But it's the underlying readiness to dismiss people which is the problem. (It's also not something that's unique to millennials.)
The backlash against the specific phrase "ok Boomer" seems disingenuous to me.
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@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
The backlash against the specific phrase "ok Boomer" seems disingenuous to me.
OK boomer.
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@Zenith said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
These are all easily solved problems. Yet, somehow, they persist. Does somebody out there like it this way or what?
the market doesn't care enough
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@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
As for the "OK, boomer" thing -- it is a dangerous generalization. It also means "I am dismissing everything you say because I think you are out of touch" while actually not giving any thought to the real cause of disagreement nor attempting to get to the bottom of it and settle things like normal adults.
Is it, though? Is it any worse than "I'm dismissing everything you say because you're from Europe and America is better?" Or "because you're a Democrat and I'm a Republican?" Or "because you're a Protestant and I'm a Catholic?"
None of those ways of thinking are great, of course. But it's the underlying readiness to dismiss people which is the problem. (It's also not something that's unique to millennials.)
The backlash against the specific phrase "ok Boomer" seems disingenuous to me.
"I'm dismissing everything you say because you're only in your twenties and don't have any life experience."
"Okay boomer."
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@Watson said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
As for the "OK, boomer" thing -- it is a dangerous generalization. It also means "I am dismissing everything you say because I think you are out of touch" while actually not giving any thought to the real cause of disagreement nor attempting to get to the bottom of it and settle things like normal adults.
Is it, though? Is it any worse than "I'm dismissing everything you say because you're from Europe and America is better?" Or "because you're a Democrat and I'm a Republican?" Or "because you're a Protestant and I'm a Catholic?"
None of those ways of thinking are great, of course. But it's the underlying readiness to dismiss people which is the problem. (It's also not something that's unique to millennials.)
The backlash against the specific phrase "ok Boomer" seems disingenuous to me.
"I'm dismissing everything you say because you're only in your twenties and don't have any life experience."
"Okay boomer."As far as I understand, this is the origin of the phrase.
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@topspin said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Watson said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
As for the "OK, boomer" thing -- it is a dangerous generalization. It also means "I am dismissing everything you say because I think you are out of touch" while actually not giving any thought to the real cause of disagreement nor attempting to get to the bottom of it and settle things like normal adults.
Is it, though? Is it any worse than "I'm dismissing everything you say because you're from Europe and America is better?" Or "because you're a Democrat and I'm a Republican?" Or "because you're a Protestant and I'm a Catholic?"
None of those ways of thinking are great, of course. But it's the underlying readiness to dismiss people which is the problem. (It's also not something that's unique to millennials.)
The backlash against the specific phrase "ok Boomer" seems disingenuous to me.
"I'm dismissing everything you say because you're only in your twenties and don't have any life experience."
"Okay boomer."As far as I understand, this is the origin of the phrase.
As I understand it too; once it became popular (or "went viral" as the young'uns call it these days) it started getting used ad nauseum because it got a reaction from the targets.
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
As for the "OK, boomer" thing -- it is a dangerous generalization. It also means "I am dismissing everything you say because I think you are out of touch" while actually not giving any thought to the real cause of disagreement nor attempting to get to the bottom of it and settle things like normal adults.
Yeah, it must be terrible to be dismissed just because of your age and presumed lack of experience in the matters being talked about. Especially when people assume your generation is a different age to what it actually is.
Luckily, us millenials haven't had to go through that
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@GuyWhoKilledBear I believe it is worse. Most of the other things you listed (politics, religion, etc) require that a person at least hold certain beliefs, which means they know why they are disagreeing with you, and you know it, too.
"Ok, boomer" on the other hand seems not to be reserved for polarizing, well known, issues. It can be used for anything as a path of least resistance to dismiss the other side and avoid mental engagement, not to mention that people who say "Ok, boomer" are a superset of all other groups you mentioned and then some.
Ok boomer
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Jaloopa said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
Yeah, it must be terrible to be dismissed just because of your age and presumed lack of experience in the matters being talked about.
Yeah. How would those pesky adults know about all those things that their kids are going through now when they never were kids themselves? Oh wait...
"But, back then there was no dihydrogen monoxide poisoning, you can't even compare!"
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@Magus said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@dkf I think you guys have missed something. In modern parlance, 'boomer' denotes one sufficiently old to be out of touch with the speaker. Usually 40 is old enough to hit the point where the majority of users consider you as such. This is all despite the fact that the word is supposed to mean a very specific generation.
All this is to say, OK boomer.
So what you're saying is that the term boomer ought to be distinguished from baby boomer, despite the facts that the latter was often shortened to the former and that the former seems to have been derived from the latter.
As for the ages involved, according to some study or survey somewhere that I don't care to spend the time to find right now, the term old applies to someone who is at least 15 years older than one's current age.
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@GuyWhoKilledBear I believe it is worse. Most of the other things you listed (politics, religion, etc) require that a person at least hold certain beliefs, which means they know why they are disagreeing with you, and you know it, too.
I think you and I get in very different arguments. There's arguments all over this board, for example, with people taking absurd positions based on first principles that they refuse to explain.
"Ok, boomer" on the other hand seems not to be reserved for polarizing, well known, issues. It can be used for anything as a path of least resistance to dismiss the other side and avoid mental engagement
In theory it can. In practice, I've only ever seen it used earnestly as a rebuttal to economic plans that will allegedly benefit people close to retirement at the expense of recent college graduates. The people who make this argument are usually wrong, but there is an argument behind it to engage.
not to mention that people who say "Ok, boomer" are a superset of all other groups you mentioned and then some.
No they're not. Catholic Republicans who are pro US and anti Europe are not the ones who are saying "OK boomer" because those people tend to disagree with the economic argument.
The people who say "OK boomer" are a subset of people who dismiss people they're arguing with for dumb reasons.
@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Jaloopa said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
Yeah, it must be terrible to be dismissed just because of your age and presumed lack of experience in the matters being talked about.
Yeah. How would those pesky adults know about all those things that their kids are going through now when they never were kids themselves? Oh wait...
That's not what he said, dude.
If it's uniquely bad to dismiss someone because of their age, baby boomers should be a lot less dismissive of millennials.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Jaloopa said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
Yeah, it must be terrible to be dismissed just because of your age and presumed lack of experience in the matters being talked about.
Yeah. How would those pesky adults know about all those things that their kids are going through now when they never were kids themselves? Oh wait...
"But, back then there was no dihydrogen monoxide poisoning, you can't even compare!"
You had dihydrogen monoxide? All we had was hydroxic acid!
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@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
If it's uniquely bad to dismiss someone because of their age, baby boomers should be a lot less dismissive of millennials.
Also, people should look up what age different generations are. Even though I'm 34, with two children, one starting school this year, a good career and 10-15 years of not living with my parents, if I believed what I read online about my generation I'd assume I was a massive outlier among all the kids who have never had a full time job and don't understand the realities of running their own life. Even generation Z is starting to get past the "kids these days" stereotype
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@error_bot xkcd millennials
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Better software would be too expensive, so this is were things balanced at
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@levicki That's my take on it too. We've suffered a series of bozo explosions where I work. The answer to every problem is "let's hire another manager (or five)" and none of them can even ask a halfway intelligent question.
This application that only 30 people in our bureau use crashes several times a day.
I am being thinking not enough Windows. Do the needful and buy more servers with purple monkey dishwater.
1 OK.
2 Excellent work Pajeet.
3 So, you're saying, we should do the needful?
4 Is 8 enough Windows or should we do 10?
5 I like orange. Does it come in orange?
6 Electric yellow in the brain banana.
7 zzzzzzzzz
Here's the actual problem. They're not closing sockets, so it's leaking memory until it crashes. If we change these eight lines, we can actually decommission all of the additional servers they had us rent last time this issue came up.
7 You're really starting to piss people off.
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@Zenith But they're
Highly Paid Consultantsaffordable "experts". Surely they must know what they're doing?
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@JBert said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Zenith But they're
Highly Paid Consultantsaffordable "experts".Surely they must know what they're doing?So they know how to do it better than you.
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@Zenith said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
The answer to every problem is "let's hire another manager (or five)"
Using a regexp is a way to turn one problem into two problems. But hiring a manager a manager is a way to turn one problem into an infinity of problems.
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
I disagree. Companies hire incompetent HR which in turn hires incompentent managers, which in turn hire incompetent developers.
That's what we get for hiring salesmen as CEO
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
Salesmen as CEO is not such a big problem. Salesmen as managers is a problem.
But "CEO" is a management position. Therefore...
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Zerosquare said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
But "CEO" is a management position. Therefore...
But CEO doesn't manage people who do actual work.
they manage the people who manage the people who manage the people who manage the peopel who are not paid even one one hundreth as well as the CEO and are treated as fungible commodities by the CEO.
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Vixen said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
they manage the people who manage...
That's what I said -- they don't manage the people who do actual work. When did you see a manager do some actual work?
Today.
I did actual work. my manager did actual work. his manager did actual work. and his manager is the CEO.
so..... you want to rethink talking in absolutes?
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Vixen said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
they manage the people who manage...
That's what I said -- they don't manage the people who do actual work. When did you see a manager do some actual work?
You're right. Which is why I'm the $everything at timefire. I manage myself pretty well and simultaneously do no work and get all the work done!
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Vixen said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
my manager did actual work. his manager did actual work. and his manager is the CEO.
Yeah, if by "actual work" you mean "walk fast, look worried".
Guess which character you are in this strip?
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Vixen said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
my manager did actual work. his manager did actual work. and his manager is the CEO.
Yeah, if by "actual work" you mean "walk fast, look worried".
Uh..... no....... that's not what work is, and it's not what I meant.
unless you want to say to my face that mnaging a team isn't work, making sure that my team members have clear directioon on the tasks they need to be doing right now isn't work, that making sure they have the support necessary to make their work a success isn't work, that removing roadblocks that would prevent them from completing their tasks isn't work.
if you think that, and the thousands of other tasks I deal with on a daily basis aren't work and i really just come into here to torrent movies and games, watch porn, and pretend to be working if anyone looks at me..... If that is really how you view managers..... then i pity you and your poor, twisted, warped, and broken world view.
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@Vixen said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Vixen said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
my manager did actual work. his manager did actual work. and his manager is the CEO.
Yeah, if by "actual work" you mean "walk fast, look worried".
Uh..... no....... that's not what work is, and it's not what I meant.
unless you want to say to my face...
He's just doing that "cynicaler than thou" schtick.
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@boomzilla said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Vixen said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Vixen said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
my manager did actual work. his manager did actual work. and his manager is the CEO.
Yeah, if by "actual work" you mean "walk fast, look worried".
Uh..... no....... that's not what work is, and it's not what I meant.
unless you want to say to my face...
He's just doing that "cynicaler than thou" schtick.
reads more like "assholier than thou" and is rather annoying. thus i pretend to not know what he is attempting and treat it as if he is serious on the assumption that it will annoy him in return.
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@Vixen said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@boomzilla said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Vixen said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Vixen said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
my manager did actual work. his manager did actual work. and his manager is the CEO.
Yeah, if by "actual work" you mean "walk fast, look worried".
Uh..... no....... that's not what work is, and it's not what I meant.
unless you want to say to my face...
He's just doing that "cynicaler than thou" schtick.
reads more like "assholier than thou" and is rather annoying.
It's a variation on that theme, actually.
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@boomzilla said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Vixen said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@boomzilla said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Vixen said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Vixen said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
my manager did actual work. his manager did actual work. and his manager is the CEO.
Yeah, if by "actual work" you mean "walk fast, look worried".
Uh..... no....... that's not what work is, and it's not what I meant.
unless you want to say to my face...
He's just doing that "cynicaler than thou" schtick.
reads more like "assholier than thou" and is rather annoying.
It's a variation on that theme, actually.
Fairy snuff.
/shrug
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
You're right. Which is why I'm the $everything at timefire. I manage myself pretty well and simultaneously do no work and get all the work done!
Simultaneously working and not working means you cannot be observed, and if you cannot be observed then the results of your work cannot be observed either, which makes your personal work output irrelevant as far as my claim is concerned.
Not at all! TDEMSYR! Someone back me up on this!
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
You're right. Which is why I'm the $everything at timefire. I manage myself pretty well and simultaneously do no work and get all the work done!
Simultaneously working and not working means you cannot be observed, and if you cannot be observed then the results of your work cannot be observed either, which makes your personal work output irrelevant as far as my claim is concerned.
Not at all! TDEMSYR! Someone back me up on this!
I've heard of moving the goalposts....
but @levicki is moving the goalposts so fast i can't even see them anymore.....
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
You're right. Which is why I'm the $everything at timefire. I manage myself pretty well and simultaneously do no work and get all the work done!
Simultaneously working and not working means you cannot be observed, and if you cannot be observed then the results of your work cannot be observed either, which makes your personal work output irrelevant as far as my claim is concerned.
Not at all! TDEMSYR! Someone back me up on this!
I think you're trying to takes jokes seriously, and boy are my arms tired.
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@boomzilla Or he works/worked somewhere that managers don't do actual work. They do exist.
I'm technically "management" albeit non-supervisory. I haven't worked in 13 months, unless you consider showing up and staying awake in meetings to be work. Before this "promotion," there were 7 grades of supervisory management above me. No-shows and do-nothings, CC lines on the occasional e-mail. My last responsibility-dodging CIO only ever showed up once or twice to tell us we had nice jobs and it'd be a shame if something happened to them.
Instead of pitying @levicki , be thankful you've experienced something better.
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@Zenith said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
Instead of pitying @levicki , be thankful you've experienced something better.
I have never taken pity on @levicki.
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
that removing roadblocks that would prevent them from completing their tasks isn't work.
Depends... are you removing those with your bare hands?
i would not hesitate to defenestrate you with my bare paws if you were one of those roadblocks for my team.
or, if not you then anyone else that was such a barrier that rose to the level of requiring defenstration.
but you probably would say that doesn't count. because that doesn't fit your idea of what a manager is, does it?
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@boomzilla said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
I have never taken pity on @levicki.
But you at least can tell when I am joking (even if by how bad my jokes are).
i know you are attempting to joke. I am ignoring the attempt because the jokes are horrible and completely unfunny and therefore do not deserve to be treated as jokes.
and if they're not jokes then they get to be treated seriously.
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@levicki Now in @Vixen's defense, good managers that actually work do exist. I've had a few over the years. That's what makes my current predicament so unbearable. I know there's better out there.
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@Vixen I certainly didn't write two lines of code and then play The Witcher for 3 hours today.
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@error said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Vixen I certainly didn't write two lines of code and then play The Witcher for 3 hours today.
obviously not. i know the Witcher series. 5 hours is the absolute minimum play time for any session.
ABSOLUTE.
MINIMUM.
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Vixen said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
because that doesn't fit your idea of what a manager is, does it?
I have seen many kinds of managers. I rarely liked any of them.
If you want to get serious then here are some questions for you:
- Can you write code?
- Can you design and document?
- Would you jump in to help code something if your team was about to miss a deadline unless they all worked heavy overtime?
Or are you just another one of those tough talking people managers who has no clue about technical stuff but are good at barking orders?
I am sincerely hoping that it's not the latter.
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FUCK YES. I started as a programmer, a simple code monkey. Wrote a large portion of our LOB application and took leadership when management above me quite to leave for another position and someone had to keep the department going.
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FUCK YES. that's 60% of my job even today!
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First, i woudl do absolutely fucking everything in my power to make sure my team never ended up in the position where we need to work heavy overtime to make a deadline, up to and including flat out telling the board of directors that they can take a flying leap off the pier because this deadline ain't going to work for the specification as delivered. Second. FUCK YES I WOULD. they're my team and if they're pulling overtime I'm pulling overtime doing my damnest to make sure they get out of here and back to their families faster.
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Vixen Then you have my respect and I wasn't talking about you so chill out. Ok?
you said management isn't work. it is. you were wrong on the internet. i am on the internet. and that means, according to what i understand are the rules of this forum i must correct you..... so chill out, OK?
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@levicki said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
@Vixen said in Do people actually like poor quality user interfaces?:
you said management isn't work
See the post above the one you just replied to.
and?
you're still wrong. so I correct you. because this is the internet.