WTF Bites
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@sloosecannon In Europe the logic is the other way around (a non-grounded device, other than the flat euro plug, won't fit into a grounded socket.
Lies. All the non-grounded plugs have holes where the pin goes. And when they don't, it's perfectly safe to drill one yourself (it's just a big lump of plastic around two relatively thin wires).
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@heterodox said in WTF Bites:
That being said, the default CAPI and Firefox trust stores contain both that intermediate CA's certificate and the root CA's certificate, so I don't know why yours doesn't.
I just installed Firefox a couple of days ago, because Chrome was being less responsive than a dead snail (it's still using an absurd amount of memory, but it's reasonablyusably responsive except when opening and closing tabs). I installed AdBlockPlus, Ghostery, and TamperMonkey, and I poked at some privacy settings, but nothing related to certificates, and everything else is default.
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@sloosecannon In Europe the logic is the other way around (a non-grounded device, other than the flat euro plug, won't fit into a grounded socket. Converters are, of course, not allowed under the code but easily made yourself. Usually it's an old extension lead, since devices are near universally either grounded or on euro plugs.
I have never seen a non-grounded device with anything else then euro-plug, because there would be no point to adding any more plastic around it and because it fits all the various kinds of sockets used in Europe except the British type G, not just C, E and F.
That said being able to plug an E/F plug (grounded) to a C socket (ungrounded) is obviously wrong. Despite the fact I've never actually seen a C socket—usually it's the E sockets even if the ground and zero are the same lead instead of being connected only in the switchbox.
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@Bulb Flat euro plugs must be sealed on on the plug side, and possibly also on the device side. I believe there are also additional isolation concerns when using one on a device with a metal housing.
The most common case where I've seen the 'big' plugs is on ungrounded extension leads, which are nearly always old (since new ones tend to be grounded).
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So I'm using Google Docs a lot thanks to work. And today in Google Docs adventures, I have noticed an interesting bug in Google Spreadsheets. So I have had a document I've been working on on two different computers with multiple sheets. Only that the order the sheets are listed in changes when I change computers. So had them in order on work computer. Goes home and opens on home computer. Order of sheets is all random. I set them back in the correct order. Then I am back on work computer and opens the spreadsheet again and the order of the sheets is all random again. sigh
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@sloosecannon In Europe the logic is the other way around (a non-grounded device, other than the flat euro plug, won't fit into a grounded socket. Converters are, of course, not allowed under the code but easily made yourself. Usually it's an old extension lead, since devices are near universally either grounded or on euro plugs.
I have never seen a non-grounded device with anything else then euro-plug, because there would be no point to adding any more plastic around it and because it fits all the various kinds of sockets used in Europe except the British type G, not just C, E and F.
They're commonplace in Poland. They look like this:
That said being able to plug an E/F plug (grounded) to a C socket (ungrounded) is obviously wrong.
The only thing wrong is this mindset that it's better to not be able to do something at all than to do something not entirely in line with best practices but still very safe in most cases.
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The only thing wrong is this mindset that it's better to not be able to do something at all than to do something not entirely in line with best practices but still very safe in most cases.
If there's a ground pin, the device is intended to be grounded. Presumably the designer made it that way for a reason, and in some cases there is a very good reason to keep it grounded at all times.
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@sloosecannon If there's automatic updates, the operating system is intended to be automatically updated. Presumably the designer made it that way for a reason, and in some cases there is a very good reason to keep it updated at all times.
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@Gąska also true. Your point?
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@sloosecannon my point is that I wasted countless hours (should call them days by now) repairing botched Windows updates because some dumbass in Redmond thinks he knows better than me whether and when my computer should be updated. That's why I'm of a firm opinion it should ALWAYS be possible to disable automatic updates. And it should ALWAYS be possible to connect grounded plug to non-grounded socket.
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@Gąska yes but none of that negates the fact that you should keep your computer updated. Just like you should keep your plugs grounded. And in fact, it's much easier to do it wrong in electricity (which actually has a chance for much more serious consequences), by getting one of those adapters and not grounding it like you're supposed to.
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@sloosecannon said in WTF Bites:
@Gąska yes but none of that negates the fact that you should keep your computer updated.
I never disputed that it's generally a good idea to keep your computer updated. It's also generally a good idea to always ground all electrical circuits. But sometimes you just aren't able to install updates, just like sometimes you just don't have any grounded sockets available. And then, if you cannot proceed without updating, or cannot plug in your device because of the ground pin, you're fucked. That's why grounded/ungrounded incompatibility is utterly retarded idea.
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@sloosecannon said in WTF Bites:
@Gąska yes but none of that negates the fact that you should keep your computer updated.
I never disputed that it's generally a good idea to keep your computer updated. It's also generally a good idea to always ground all electrical circuits. But sometimes you just aren't able to install updates, just like sometimes you just don't have any grounded sockets available. And then, if you cannot proceed without updating, or cannot plug in your device because of the ground pin, you're fucked.
Yes, but only one of those two has a nonzero chance of making you the shortest path between 120VAC and ground, which is not a position I envy.
Not to mention, it's much easier to bypass (dangerously) in electricity, by getting an adapter and saying fuck you to safety. Whereas with updates you can't do that without fuckery.
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@sloosecannon said in WTF Bites:
@sloosecannon said in WTF Bites:
@Gąska yes but none of that negates the fact that you should keep your computer updated.
I never disputed that it's generally a good idea to keep your computer updated. It's also generally a good idea to always ground all electrical circuits. But sometimes you just aren't able to install updates, just like sometimes you just don't have any grounded sockets available. And then, if you cannot proceed without updating, or cannot plug in your device because of the ground pin, you're fucked.
Yes, but only one of those two has a nonzero chance of making you the shortest path between 120VAC and ground, which is not a position I envy.
Grounded cables also have non-zero chance of this happening. Good luck living the rest of your life in constant fear of something that's orders of magnitude less probable than being run over by a car!
Not to mention, it's much easier to bypass (dangerously) in electricity, by getting an adapter and saying fuck you to safety.
It is easier, but not easy enough. It should be effortless. Having an old electrical installation shouldn't impact your quality of life so much. Especially since those adapters are much more dangerous than just having the cable fit anyway in the first place.
ETA: And stop saying it's dangerous. The health risk is negligible, and device damage risk pales in comparison to how much more usable it makes the device in certain (very common, especially in USA) situations.
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It should be effortless. Having an old electrical installation shouldn't impact your quality of life so much.
No, no it shouldn't. Having an old electrical installation is unsafe. If you want to cut corners and endanger yourself and anyone else who lives with you, that's your choice, but don't expect people to design things to make it easy to do so.
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@sloosecannon said in WTF Bites:
It should be effortless. Having an old electrical installation shouldn't impact your quality of life so much.
No, no it shouldn't. Having an old electrical installation is unsafe.
Agreed. But ungrounded 120V sockets is at the very end of the list of problems with it, in order of importance.
If you want to cut corners and endanger yourself and anyone else who lives with you, that's your choice, but don't expect people to design things to make it easy to do so.
Copying for bonus visibility: stop saying it's dangerous. The health risk is negligibly small (comparable with sneezing yourself to death), and device damage risk pales in comparison to how much more usable it makes the device in certain (very common, especially in USA) situations.
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@Gąska Hey, try to be more sensitive! My cousin sneezed himself to death and it was no laughing matter!
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Copying for bonus visibility: stop saying it's dangerous. The health risk is negligibly small (comparable with sneezing yourself to death), and device damage risk pales in comparison to how much more usable it makes the device in certain (very common, especially in USA) situations.
You keep saying this, but the problem is you're actually wrong. That's why I've said you're wrong the last few times you said that.
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@sloosecannon said in WTF Bites:
It should be effortless. Having an old electrical installation shouldn't impact your quality of life so much.
No, no it shouldn't. Having an old electrical installation is unsafe.
Agreed. But ungrounded 120V sockets is at the very end of the list of problems with it, in order of importance.
If you want to cut corners and endanger yourself and anyone else who lives with you, that's your choice, but don't expect people to design things to make it easy to do so.
Copying for bonus visibility: stop saying it's dangerous. The health risk is negligibly small (comparable with sneezing yourself to death), and device damage risk pales in comparison to how much more usable it makes the device in certain (very common, especially in USA) situations.
I think you're confusing incidence rate and health risk. We just recently had a court case conclude about a small boy who was killed by a faulty electrical circuit in a supermarket.
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@sloosecannon said in WTF Bites:
Copying for bonus visibility: stop saying it's dangerous. The health risk is negligibly small (comparable with sneezing yourself to death), and device damage risk pales in comparison to how much more usable it makes the device in certain (very common, especially in USA) situations.
You keep saying this, but the problem is you're actually wrong. That's why I've said you're wrong the last few times you said that.
Show me two police notes, two press articles, two anything that show that not grounding a single-phase 100-240V electrical device with ground circuit, BUT NOT THE ENTIRE BUILDING ITSELF NOT BEING GROUNDED (because this is a separate risk that exists regardless of whether your devices are designed for being grounded or not), poses a non-negligible risk to health. I'm asking for two because there are 7 billion people in the world and every situation imaginable, no matter how incredibly unlikely, must have already happened to someone somewhere once.
@sloosecannon said in WTF Bites:
It should be effortless. Having an old electrical installation shouldn't impact your quality of life so much.
No, no it shouldn't. Having an old electrical installation is unsafe.
Agreed. But ungrounded 120V sockets is at the very end of the list of problems with it, in order of importance.
If you want to cut corners and endanger yourself and anyone else who lives with you, that's your choice, but don't expect people to design things to make it easy to do so.
Copying for bonus visibility: stop saying it's dangerous. The health risk is negligibly small (comparable with sneezing yourself to death), and device damage risk pales in comparison to how much more usable it makes the device in certain (very common, especially in USA) situations.
I think you're confusing incidence rate and health risk.
Health risk once it already happens is the wrong metric here. The right one is health risk overall. The user getting "tingled" because of disconnected grounding is extremely unlikely compared to all other reasons the user might get "tingled" and also compared to all other things that can happen because of disconnected grounding. I'm not saying it cannot happen - but statistically, you're worrying about the wrong thing here.
We just recently had a court case conclude about a small boy who was killed by a faulty electrical circuit in a supermarket.
$100 say the problem with that electrical circuit wasn't disconnected grounding.
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Show me two police notes, two press articles, two anything that show that not grounding a single-phase 100-240V electrical device with ground circuit, BUT NOT THE ENTIRE BUILDING ITSELF NOT BEING GROUNDED
Oh, so you accept that lack of grounding is a risk but it somehow isn't a risk in this particular situation?
Let's explore this.
Here's the risk: wiring fault causes something (usually the outside chassis) to become live. You touch it. You become the path for a 120v circuit. You die.
It's not a "little shock" or a "tingle". It's full blown fibrilation-causing electrocution. If you don't think that's a health risk I don't know what to tell you.
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@sloosecannon said in WTF Bites:
You become the path for a 120v circuit. You die.
I've died too many times to count it, then
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@sloosecannon said in WTF Bites:
Here's the risk: wiring fault causes something (usually the outside chassis) to become live. You touch it. You become the path for a 120v circuit. You die.
I stand corrected.
It's not a "little shock" or a "tingle".
@discobot define for @sloosecannon euphemism
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@sloosecannon euphemism : (noun) a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing
View on lexico.com
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Just to be clear: despite concession above, my $100 bet still stands, if there are any takers.
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And it should ALWAYS be possible to connect grounded plug to non-grounded socket.
We've thought of that in the UK. All our sockets are grounded (and all our plugs are caltrops).
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$100 say the problem with that electrical circuit wasn't disconnected grounding.
It was a case of "grounding not connected and metal casing connected to mains".
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interactive staging (which git gui does well, but the other GUIs not so much or not at all).
I cannot post https://git-cola.github.io/ enough because for me it does everything better than
git gui, like things working intuitively rather than using some byzantine keyboard or mouse shortcuts which the gui never presents in a (context-)menu somewhere.
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@sloosecannon said in WTF Bites:
@Gąska why would you bend the pins when you could just get a 3 to 2 prong adapter? Just as unsafe (unless you connect GND) but at least you're not damaging an extension cord too
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@loopback0 said in WTF Bites:
@topspin I think Steam does the same but games with a demo or trial these days seem relatively rare so it's been a while since I last did that, so can't remember for sure.
stanley parable demo is just a completely different game
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
Status: I am now position
__.
thanks, that's a nice line
where is my position in it, though?
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And I want all of them because I'm writing a code generator and want to preserve the value exactly when converted to source code and then compiled. Is this really too much to ask? Lossless serialization of one double?
The language of the generated source doesn't support hexfloats or scientific notation?
No hexfloats, but yes scientific notation. If I can get Java to print lossless scientific notation before I can get it to print lossless plain decimal, I'll use that.
Double.longBitsToDouble?
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More obnoxious ways of "blocking" adblockers. This popped up after about 5 seconds, so before I could evaluate the site properly.
Oh, well. The service you're providing is not exclusive to your site so I'll just look elsewhere.
BlockAdblock
Someone has already built a brand off shooting turd to adblock users to kinkshame them?
Actually, why not do the same to NoScript users too? Kinkshame them for not allowing the tracking scripts to be run? Either you have to eat shit, or a thousand snipers will pinpoint your location to shoot hot pieces of turd bullets into your mouth and you have to accept defeat. Sounds like a good plan.
hmm, I wonder if someone could, say, block BlockAdBlock
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I have never seen a non-grounded device with anything else then euro-plug, because there would be no point to adding any more plastic around it and because it fits all the various kinds of sockets used in Europe except the British type G, not just C, E and F.
The most common case where I've seen the 'big' plugs is on ungrounded extension leads, which are nearly always old (since new ones tend to be grounded).
There's one usecase for plugs like the one Gąska posted:
They're commonplace in Poland. They look like this:
This kind of plug was and still is frequently used on vacuum cleaners because these plugs are harder to accidentally pull out while cleaning.
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This kind of plug was and still is frequently used on vacuum cleaners because these plugs are harder to accidentally pull out while cleaning.
Yeah, my vacuum is a mere two years old and has this plug.
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I think he meant "why they are used instead of the ungrounded flat Europlug".
Another reason may be the amount of power drawn - I'm not sure a Europlug could safely withstand it, as they're generally used for low-power devices.
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@ben_lubar said in WTF Bites:
More obnoxious ways of "blocking" adblockers. This popped up after about 5 seconds, so before I could evaluate the site properly.
Oh, well. The service you're providing is not exclusive to your site so I'll just look elsewhere.
BlockAdblock
Someone has already built a brand off shooting turd to adblock users to kinkshame them?
Actually, why not do the same to NoScript users too? Kinkshame them for not allowing the tracking scripts to be run? Either you have to eat shit, or a thousand snipers will pinpoint your location to shoot hot pieces of turd bullets into your mouth and you have to accept defeat. Sounds like a good plan.
hmm, I wonder if someone could, say, block BlockAdBlock
Introducing my new browser extension, AdblockBlockBlock
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@TimeBandit said in WTF Bites:
@sloosecannon said in WTF Bites:
You become the path for a 120v circuit. You die.
I've died too many times to count it, then
Fun fact: The highest current I got "killed" with is 347v
I do not want to experience that again
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@Zerosquare said in WTF Bites:
I think he meant "why they are used instead of the ungrounded flat Europlug".
Another reason may be the amount of power drawn - I'm not sure a Europlug could safely withstand it, as they're generally used for low-power devices.
That's more of a wire diameter thing. The safety distance @levicki is speaking about is solely dependant on the voltage - and that one does not change.
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@TimeBandit said in WTF Bites:
@TimeBandit said in WTF Bites:
@sloosecannon said in WTF Bites:
You become the path for a 120v circuit. You die.
I've died too many times to count it, then
Fun fact: The highest current I got "killed" with is 347v
I do not want to experience that again
Volt is not a unit of current?
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They described the IKEA effect as "labor alone can be sufficient to induce greater liking for the fruits of one's labor: even constructing a standardized bureau, an arduous, solitary task, can lead people to overvalue their (often poorly constructed) creations."
(...)
The IKEA effect may be said to manifest itself in situations when programmers have been invited to help (without payment) in creating open-source programs and operating systems, such as Linux.Hmmm...
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@Zerosquare said in WTF Bites:
They described the IKEA effect as "labor alone can be sufficient to induce greater liking for the fruits of one's labor: even constructing a standardized bureau, an arduous, solitary task, can lead people to overvalue their (often poorly constructed) creations."
(...)
The IKEA effect may be said to manifest itself in situations when programmers have been invited to help (without payment) in creating open-source programs and operating systems, such as Linux.Hmmm...
Now that you mention it: I forgot to check if that page also says something about keeping a Discourse instance from falling over...
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@ben_lubar said in WTF Bites:
More obnoxious ways of "blocking" adblockers. This popped up after about 5 seconds, so before I could evaluate the site properly.
Oh, well. The service you're providing is not exclusive to your site so I'll just look elsewhere.
BlockAdblock
Someone has already built a brand off shooting turd to adblock users to kinkshame them?
Actually, why not do the same to NoScript users too? Kinkshame them for not allowing the tracking scripts to be run? Either you have to eat shit, or a thousand snipers will pinpoint your location to shoot hot pieces of turd bullets into your mouth and you have to accept defeat. Sounds like a good plan.
hmm, I wonder if someone could, say, block BlockAdBlock
Introducing my new browser extension, AdblockBlockBlock
Not interested.
I need to get an AdblockBlockBlock ad blocker.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
@sloosecannon said in WTF Bites:
@Gąska why would you bend the pins when you could just get a 3 to 2 prong adapter? Just as unsafe (unless you connect GND) but at least you're not damaging an extension cord too
This.
A few bucks for two.
But even those adapters are built to have the grounding pin actually lead to a ground:
To those who have been saying that these adapters are unsafe: the fact that many people don't use it properly doesn't mean that using one of these adapters is inherently unsafe. Anything can be unsafe if used unsafely.
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To those who have been saying that these adapters are unsafe: the fact that many people don't use it properly doesn't mean that using one of these adapters is inherently unsafe.
I think the one @Gąska had in mind didn't have that ground connection.
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In today's "Things that apparently Just Work despite Web 3.0 craziness"
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@Zerosquare said in WTF Bites:
To those who have been saying that these adapters are unsafe: the fact that many people don't use it properly doesn't mean that using one of these adapters is inherently unsafe.
I think the one @Gąska had in mind didn't have that ground connection.
Every one I've seen that didn't have it was because someone clipped it off "because the screw for the outlet cover kept it from going in all the way."
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$ base64 -d JUCE/extras/Projucer/Source/BinaryData/nothingtoseehere.txt UA-19759318-4ETA: should have added more context. Yes, it's a Google Analytics ID. There is a slightly different Google Analytics ID in another part of the code. I'm still glad JUCE is available under GPL though.
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@aitap What are we looking at here? Is that some kind of user identifier or a license ID?
IKEA effect - Wikipedia
https://www.amazon.com/GE-Polarized-Grounding-Adapter-14404/dp/B00B7PK1TC
