"I used to work for Tesla…"
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@Polygeekery said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
if you put out a gasoline fire with water it tends to
spread burning gasoline further, setting additional things on fire. Foam, dry chemical, or CO2 are suitable agents for extinguishing a gasoline fire; water is not. (Under some circumstances, a water fog may be used to cool a flammable liquid fire, but in that case the idea is to evaporate the tiny water droplets, absorbing a lot of heat, not putting any liquid water on the gasoline.)
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@PleegWat said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
@ben_lubar said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
is iron safe i heard it was very dangerous if a lot of it fell on you
Iron is about as safe as dihydrogen monoxide.
To humans, perhaps, but not to stars.
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@HardwareGeek And yet, fire departments haven't felt an overwhelming need to equip themselves with foam trucks to handle gasoline fires.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
@PleegWat said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
@ben_lubar said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
is iron safe i heard it was very dangerous if a lot of it fell on you
Iron is about as safe as dihydrogen monoxide.
So you're saying we should ban it? Because I've heard that DHMO is really really dangerous.
Eh, I don't have the MSDS in front of me, but I believe the health risks are characterized similarly to hydroxic acid and hydrogen hydroxide.
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@HardwareGeek said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
@Polygeekery said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
if you put out a gasoline fire with water it tends to
spread burning gasoline further, setting additional things on fire. Foam, dry chemical, or CO2 are suitable agents for extinguishing a gasoline fire; water is not. (Under some circumstances, a water fog may be used to cool a flammable liquid fire, but in that case the idea is to evaporate the tiny water droplets, absorbing a lot of heat, not putting any liquid water on the gasoline.)
No.
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@lolwhat I expect traffic accidents generally don't have enough gasoline about to require a dedicated foam truck - a single cylinder likely suffices.
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@PleegWat Or the fire department just uses water - like @Polygeekery said.
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For what it's worth, my local small-town fire department has a truck with both a water tank and a foam tank. I think most departments have an apparatus that carries both. (YMMV, and I'm not a fire fighter, so I don't know which gets used for what.)
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@PleegWat said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
@lolwhat I expect traffic accidents generally don't have enough gasoline about to require a dedicated foam truck - a single cylinder likely suffices.
You guys are mixing up oil burning in a vessel with gasoline. Upthread I posted a video of firefighters using water to fight a fire that was a large vat of gasoline burning.
Vessels of oil will only burn if they are extremely hot. Gasoline has a much lower vapor and ignition temperature.
For oil or gasoline spills that ignite they will use water. Foam would be a waste.
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@Groaner Hydroxic acid is a much scarier name than Dihydrogen Monoxide (IMO).
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@anonymous234 Sounds like a source of acute rather than chronic harm, tho. Hydroxic acid can burn your skin right off. DHMO contributes to an environment conducive to the growth of cancer cells.
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@anonymous234 said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
@Groaner Hydroxic acid is a much scarier name than Dihydrogen Monoxide (IMO).
Especially when it's dissolved in aqueous solution.
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@lolwhat said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
Maybe enclose the EV in an oxygen-free environment, then get the energy out of it...
Buckets large enough to submerge whole wrecked car in them are unfortunately rather rare.
@Polygeekery said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
That would help with the lithium oxidizing, but it would not do anything for the major concern.
The lithium is not oxidising in a battery fire, at least not in a sense of reacting with free oxygen. The batteries don't contain metal lithium, but compounds of it, which just undergo the normal discharging reaction. It is also the reason you may cool them with water—metal lithium would react violently with water, producing lithium hydroxide and hydrogen, that is likely to be promptly ignited by the generated heat.
What burns in the batteries is the electrolyte. It can be put out with water, but then you have to keep the batteries well cooled until they self-discharge. For small devices, the approved procedure is dropping them in a bucket of liquid water, but for cars, see above.
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@pie_flavor
Hm, quite the interesting announcement...Spoiler
At least horse & buggy v fire truck accidents are less likely to result in property damage & deaths.
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"Electric cars are cheap to own!" Heh.
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@Polygeekery said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
@LaoC said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
TBF this battery nomenclature is a bit confusing. "LiPo" is actually not supposed to be LiPO, but "Po" means "polymer" there.
In LiPO, yes. I believe he was talking about LiFePO4 batteries, which means "Lithium Iron Phosphate".
Sure. Phosphate is "PO", "Po" can be "Polonium" or "Polymer", although the "Po4" makes the "polymer" reading unlikely. It's confusing. We have:
NiCd -> 2LE + 2LE
NiMH -> 2LE + Technology
LiPo -> 2LE + Technology
LiFePO4 -> Molecule
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@LaoC Sounds like that scheme needs some LiPoSuCtIoN.
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I wonder if this is related to the relevations in this thread?
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@LaoC Pretty much assumed oxygen initially. Polonium is funnier though. Even though there's no way to get 4 polonium bonded to a single phosphorus. At least I sure hope there isn't.
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@Gribnit said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
@LaoC Pretty much assumed oxygen initially. Polonium is funnier though. Even though there's no way to get 4 polonium bonded to a single phosphorus. At least I sure hope there isn't.
Gaffa tape?
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@LaoC said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
Gaffa tape?
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@blakeyrat said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
@LaoC said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
Gaffa tape?
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@blakeyrat said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
@PleegWat said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
Iron is about as safe as dihydrogen monoxide.
You ever see a bunch of dihydrogen monoxide fall on something?
Well, yeah.
The Titanic sank and killed 1500 people after getting hit by frozen dihydrogen monoxide.
Too much dihydrogen monoxide:
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@Zerosquare LOL
@Dragoon said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
'ed
I've had that thread blocked for a long time...
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@Weng said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
which will have it's own set of insoluble problems.
All of my problems are water soluble. :necromancer:
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@dcon lol that comment. But actually from a software perspective that's true - it was functioning perfectly in its defined test cases.
This is why autonomy is so hard, because you can't possibly control the test cases in the real environment, and failing in just one unexpected 'obvious' scenario is unacceptable.
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@bobjanova said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
@dcon lol that comment. But actually from a software perspective that's true - it was functioning perfectly in its defined test cases.
This is why autonomy is so hard, because you can't possibly control the test cases in the real environment, and failing in just one unexpected 'obvious' scenario is unacceptable.
You need a system that can deal with abstracts and that can draw conclusions it was not taught. Which is why I keep saying neural nets won't cut it. They get you like 95% of the way, but then there is the chaotic side of things that will just be impossible to actually train for. And that's even without accounting for creative hacking. Just wait till the kids throwing rocks at trains and at traffic from overpasses figure out some trivial way to make the autonomy go derp.
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@Carnage said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
You need a system that can deal with abstracts and that can draw conclusions it was not taught. Which is why I keep saying neural nets won't cut it. They get you like 95% of the way, but then there is the chaotic side of things that will just be impossible to actually train for. And that's even without accounting for creative hacking. Just wait till the kids throwing rocks at trains and at traffic from overpasses figure out some trivial way to make the autonomy go derp.
I'm still trying to figure out why Tesla seem to be so keen on avoiding putting radar on their cars so they can detect obstructions like this. It's not a subsystem that's exactly unheard of in the realm of moderate luxury vehicles either. It reeks of someone being stubborn against the evidence.
But yes, standard neural networks are unsuited for this sort of task. Or rather they're mostly OK for some of the task, such as processing the input from cameras to identify features of interest, but the high level decision systems are just too damn difficult to train that way and probably need to be a lot more rule based. Systems that can do live realtime learning might be more useful for that, but they're not out of the academic lab yet (and current versions weigh rather more than a Tesla).
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@dkf said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
@Carnage said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
You need a system that can deal with abstracts and that can draw conclusions it was not taught. Which is why I keep saying neural nets won't cut it. They get you like 95% of the way, but then there is the chaotic side of things that will just be impossible to actually train for. And that's even without accounting for creative hacking. Just wait till the kids throwing rocks at trains and at traffic from overpasses figure out some trivial way to make the autonomy go derp.
I'm still trying to figure out why Tesla seem to be so keen on avoiding putting radar on their cars so they can detect obstructions like this. It's not a subsystem that's exactly unheard of in the realm of moderate luxury vehicles either. It reeks of someone being stubborn against the evidence.
But yes, standard neural networks are unsuited for this sort of task. Or rather they're mostly OK for some of the task, such as processing the input from cameras to identify features of interest, but the high level decision systems are just too damn difficult to train that way and probably need to be a lot more rule based. Systems that can do live realtime learning might be more useful for that, but they're not out of the academic lab yet (and current versions weigh rather more than a Tesla).
Yeah, it's far off.
My money is on either genetic programs or cerebral computers. Or a combination. Either way, it'll be usable in a form factor for a car right about the same time fusion is a valid power generation option. I mean, I want them both, but I'm not expecting to see either of them while it still matters to me.
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@dkf said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
I'm still trying to figure out why Tesla seem to be so keen on avoiding putting radar on their cars so they can detect obstructions like this.
They aren't. They have radars on their cars. What they're "keen on avoiding" is the big, bulky LIDAR assemblies you see on the Google prototypes.
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@Carnage said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
My money is on either genetic programs or cerebral computers. Or a combination. Either way, it'll be usable in a form factor for a car right about the same time fusion is a valid power generation option. I mean, I want them both, but I'm not expecting to see either of them while it still matters to me.
We're not too far off “cerebral computers” though actually, you probably want cerebellal computers; the cerebellum is the part of the brain responsible for fast learned actions after all, and that's the key to making all sorts of useful robotics. We're still a long way off (many orders of magnitude) true AI as in a system that's similarly intelligent to a person, but we'll have useful stuff well before reaching that pinnacle. (I think we're at about the point where an artificial cerebellum is mainly an engineering problem, whereas an artificial neocortex remains thoroughly a scientific problem; there's just so much complexity in there!)
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@dkf said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
It reeks of someone being stubborn against the evidence.
I can't imagine someone in a high-level position of authority making important decisions with an attitude like that.
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@Carnage said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
My money is on
eitherplanetary extinction from a comet before we get genetic programs or cerebral computers.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
@dkf said in "I used to work for Tesla…":
I'm still trying to figure out why Tesla seem to be so keen on avoiding putting radar on their cars so they can detect obstructions like this.
They aren't. They have radars on their cars.
Then why the they don't work?
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@Applied-Mediocrity Turns out firetrucks are made of the same stuff as stealth fighter planes and can't be detected by radar
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@hungrier From Cybertruck engineer's daily report:
- Installed production steel panels instead of ABS plastic we used for the show.
- Might need more chewing gum. Backordered.
- Radar computer says "
'this' is undefined
when started. Can't figure out why.