‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON
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@codejunkie you should've named this topic "Ubuntu Adds Proper Support for Installation".
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“…try out Ubuntu [on a live CD], and then dive straight into the install“, a concept Shuttleworth says once seemed like ‘science fiction’.
Is this retard... well, an idiot? No one's going to burn a CD these days. Ubuntu had this right with Wubi, as I recall, (run an executable from Windows, get the option of booting into Ubuntu next time), but apparently they fucked it up.
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@heterodox said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
No one's going to burn a CD these days.
Hah. Yeah, I use DVDs now.
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@heterodox LiveCD is a term for running the OS straight from the installation medium, regardless of what the medium is (CD, DVD, USB... well that's it, other media don't get called LiveCD).
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@heterodox said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
“…try out Ubuntu [on a live CD], and then dive straight into the install“, a concept Shuttleworth says once seemed like ‘science fiction’.
Is this retard... well, an idiot? No one's going to burn a CD these days. Ubuntu had this right with Wubi, as I recall, (run an executable from Windows, get the option of booting into Ubuntu next time), but apparently they fucked it up.
I assume you're aware that the installer .iso images work fine from things like USB drives?
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@dragnslcr said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
I assume you're aware that the installer .iso images work fine from things like USB drives?
With a rant like that, I tend to assume the opposite...
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Ubuntu installer works fine, why do they have to break it?
It already takes long to load it from the USB, if they use electron with its hundreds of MB, it will take minutes to start the installation
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The tool will leverage modern technologies like Curtin,
Jane Curtin?
I mean Third Rock from the Sun was fun and all, but it's hardly "modern technology". I mean, the series ended in like 2001.
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I just... WHY? You have the entirety of GTK RIGHT THERE! Hell, it's GTK3, doesn't that do HTML already? I mean, I'm no fan of GTK itself, don't get me wrong, but why in the holy fuck would you run an installer, which does a bunch of system calls (even if they are just
exec
calls to other components), in a NodeJS + WebKit combo? I think GTK can handle fucking inputs, buttons and checkboxes just fucking fine!INB4 it uses Ember or Angular as well.
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@boomzilla said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
@heterodox said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
No one's going to burn a CD these days.
Hah. Yeah, I use DVDs now.
Well, when even the minimal install wont fit on a CD...
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@pjh said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
Well, when even the minimal install wont fit on a CD...
Idiot. Just download the torrent, it even fits on a floppy
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@dragnslcr said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
I assume you're aware that the installer .iso images work fine from things like USB drives?
Why require any other device at all? Wubi wrote a .bin file to the hard disk and NTLDR took notice of it for the next boot. That's how you get adoption, run an EXE and get the option of Ubuntu on your next boot. Does no one remember this but me?
I don't think I'm lying (I wish I were) when I say instructions to "Find a flash drive, format it, etc..." rule out 99% of the computing populace.
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Last time I installed an Ubuntu clone it just launched gparted if you wanted to do any kind of manual partitioning and if you wanted LVM you had to do that on the command line. I wonder if they finally implemented that in the installer.
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@heterodox said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
Why require any other device at all? Wubi wrote a .bin file to the hard disk and NTLDR took notice of it for the next boot. That's how you get adoption, run an EXE and get the option of Ubuntu on your next boot. Does no one remember this but me?
I remember reading about this. But I've never tried to install Ubuntu from Windows so I never actually used it.
@blek said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
Last time I installed an Ubuntu clone it just launched gparted if you wanted to do any kind of manual partitioning and if you wanted LVM you had to do that on the command line. I wonder if they finally implemented that in the installer.
It's been around for quite a while. Well, I suppose I've only done this with Kubuntu, which uses KDE so I don't actually know what "normal" Ubuntu uses.
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@heterodox said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
@dragnslcr said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
I assume you're aware that the installer .iso images work fine from things like USB drives?
Why require any other device at all? Wubi wrote a .bin file to the hard disk and NTLDR took notice of it for the next boot. That's how you get adoption, run an EXE and get the option of Ubuntu on your next boot.
So instead of requiring a USB drive, you want to require a Windows license and installation?
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@heterodox said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
Why require any other device at all?
Alternatively you can create a VM, mount the partition to it and boot it from the ISO.
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@dragnslcr said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
So instead of requiring a USB drive, you want to require a Windows license and installation?
I was going to post the copy-pasta thing about the guy who was confused about Linux because it clearly relied on Windows to work, but I can't find it.
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@dragnslcr said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
So instead of requiring a USB drive, you want to require a Windows license and installation?
You mean the thing the average user already has on his or her machine?
I'm not saying this should be the only means of installation, I'm just saying the proposal isn't nearly as "space-age" as it thinks it is.
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@heterodox said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
I'm just saying the proposal isn't nearly as "space-age" as it thinks it is.
Clickbait gonna bait.
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@pjh said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
@boomzilla said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
@heterodox said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
No one's going to burn a CD these days.
Hah. Yeah, I use DVDs now.
Well, when even the minimal install wont fit on a CD...
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@ben_lubar said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
Well, when even the minimal install wont fit on a CD...
While the minimal iso image is handy, it isn't useful for installing on UEFI-based systems that you want to run in UEFI mode. The mini iso lacks the proper files for booting the computer in UEFI mode. Thus, the computer will boot in BIOS compatibility mode, and the installation will be in BIOS mode.
You can use an Ubuntu Server amd64 iso file (64-bit) for 'mini installations' in UEFI mode. There is a compressed image file dd_text_16.04-UEFI-n-BIOS-4-pendrive-7.8GB.img.xz of such an installed system, that can be used as a start of a custom installation.
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@mott555 said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
@dragnslcr said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
So instead of requiring a USB drive, you want to require a Windows license and installation?
I was going to post the copy-pasta thing about the guy who was confused about Linux because it clearly relied on Windows to work, but I can't find it.
Are you saying that this
linux can run on a computer without windows underneath it, at all ? As
in, without a boot disk, without any drivers, and without any services ?That sounds preposterous to me.
If
it were true (and I doubt it), then companies would be selling
computers without a windows. This clearly is not happening, so there
must be some error in your calculations. I hope you realise that
windows is more than just Office ? Its a whole system that runs the
computer from start to finish, and that is a very difficult thing to
acheive. A lot of people dont realise this.Microsoft just spent
$9 billion and many years to create Vista, so it does not sound
reasonable that some new alternative could just snap into existence
overnight like that. It would take billions of dollars and a massive
effort to achieve. IBM tried, and spent a huge amount of money
developing OS/2 but could never keep up with Windows. Apple tried to
create their own system for years, but finally gave up recently and
moved to Intel and Microsoft.Its just not possible that a
freeware like the Linux could be extended to the point where it runs
the entire computer fron start to finish, without using some of the
more critical parts of windows. Not possible.I think you need to re-examine your assumptions.
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@heterodox That assumes you've installed NTLDR, whatever that is, and got it working.
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@gordonjcp it's a bootloader.
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@gordonjcp
Windows NT bootloader
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@heterodox said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
That's how you get adoption, run an EXE and get the option of Ubuntu on your next boot. Does no one remember this but me?
I remember that existing for Linuxes (and even BeOS) going back to the mid-90s. I clearly remember doing it both with Corel Linux 1 and BeOS4.
But the part about "how you get adoption", huh. I don't seem to recall that happening at all... weird I guess my memory's spotty.
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@luhmann Right, so you need to install a 1990s OS to install a 2018 OS, in that scenario? I'm not sure why that's better.
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@blakeyrat said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
But the part about "how you get adoption", huh. I don't seem to recall that happening at all... weird I guess my memory's spotty.
It's more like a necessary but insufficient condition.
@gordonjcp said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
@luhmann Right, so you need to install a 1990s OS to install a 2018 OS, in that scenario? I'm not sure why that's better.
You know that every Windows newer than Millenium Edition is part of NT line? It boggles me that anyone on this forum might not be aware of this fact, but that's the only way your post makes sense.
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@gordonjcp said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
@luhmann Right, so you need to install a 1990s OS to install a 2018 OS, in that scenario? I'm not sure why that's better.
If by 1990s OS you mean a 2018 OS like Windows 10, sure.
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@gordonjcp said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
@luhmann Right, so you need to install a 1990s OS to install a 2018 OS, in that scenario? I'm not sure why that's better.
NT's newer than Linux.
In any case, NTLDR isn't an OS. It's a bootloader. I guess you could say it's part of the OS, kind of. The one shipping today also isn't the same one that shipped in 1993. For one hugely obvious thing, it supports UEFI and bitlocker, which didn't exist in 1993.
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@gordonjcp said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
@luhmann Right, so you need to install a 1990s OS to install a 2018 OS, in that scenario? I'm not sure why that's better.
In many cases you still need to boot up a 1980's BIOS to install a 2018 OS, so...
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@mott555 I doubt anybody installed Windows 10 April 2018 Update on a computer with a mobo dating back to 1989 or earlier.
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@gąska Pretty sure most of the mobo's startup code dates back to 1983.
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@twelvebaud pretty sure it's heavily modified whenever any kind of connector is added/removed from the design.
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@gąska said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
@codejunkie you should've named this topic "Ubuntu Adds Proper Support for Installation".
Yeah, had a hard time thinking up a name for this one. Course, being that this https://node-os.com/ exists, it's no one wonder garbage like this "next gen" installer even get dreamed up. This is stuff that's completely a solution in search of a problem. When's the last time you said to yourself, "hey self, if only the installer for this operating system could be run from shitty browser, my life would be so much better."?
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@codejunkie I doesn't seem there's any thinking involved in these projects.
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@codejunkie said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
being that this https://node-os.com/ exists
Check the website...
The first operating system powered by node.js and npm
node-os uses npm as its primary package manager
So, you can get left-pad
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@gąska said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
I doesn't seem there's any thinking involved in these projects.
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@timebandit said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
The first operating system powered by node.js and npm
Does this mean Excel is now a hypervisor?
https://what.thedailywtf.com/topic/25117/microsoft-adds-support-for-javascript-functions-in-excel/
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@timebandit said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
@codejunkie said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
being that this https://node-os.com/ exists
Check the website...
The first operating system powered by node.js and npm
node-os uses npm as its primary package manager
So, you can get left-pad
Yeah, what you get is really, really gimped version of Linux...because, you know...node!!! If you look further into the site it gets better....you can run it in single tasking mode?!?!
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@gąska said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
@gordonjcp said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
@luhmann Right, so you need to install a 1990s OS to install a 2018 OS, in that scenario? I'm not sure why that's better.
You know that every Windows newer than Millenium Edition is part of NT line? It boggles me that anyone on this forum might not be aware of this fact, but that's the only way your post makes sense.
Windows NT 3.1 was released in 1993, and 4.0 in 1996. Calling Windows NT a "1990s OS" is not entirely incorrect.
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@dragnslcr no less incorrect than saying this car is from the 60s:
https://icdn3.digitaltrends.com/image/mustang_gt_feature_2-1200x800-c.jpg
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@blakeyrat said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
@gordonjcp said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
@luhmann Right, so you need to install a 1990s OS to install a 2018 OS, in that scenario? I'm not sure why that's better.
NT's newer than Linux.
It Depends (TM). The first test version of the Linux kernel was posted in 1991, about 2 years before the first version of NT was released, but Linux 1.0 wasn't released until 1994. Assuming Microsoft spent a significant amount of time working on NT before the release, they're pretty much the same age.
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@dragnslcr said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
@blakeyrat said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
@gordonjcp said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
@luhmann Right, so you need to install a 1990s OS to install a 2018 OS, in that scenario? I'm not sure why that's better.
NT's newer than Linux.
It Depends (TM). The first test version of the Linux kernel was posted in 1991, about 2 years before the first version of NT was released, but Linux 1.0 wasn't released until 1994. Assuming Microsoft spent a significant amount of time working on NT before the release, they're pretty much the same age.
Windows NT was first released in July of 1993.
edit: nevermind...yeah, if you want to split hairs about publicly available and version 1.0 . Course Linux wasn't usable until the late '90s and even that's questionable.
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@onyx said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
I just... WHY? You have the entirety of GTK RIGHT THERE! Hell, it's GTK3, doesn't that do HTML already? I mean, I'm no fan of GTK itself, don't get me wrong, but why in the holy fuck would you run an installer, which does a bunch of system calls (even if they are just
exec
calls to other components), in a NodeJS + WebKit combo? I think GTK can handle fucking inputs, buttons and checkboxes just fucking fine!INB4 it uses Ember or Angular as well.
Sure...but then you'd have to use GTK, aka 'C that wishes it was object-oriented'.
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@blek said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
Last time I installed an Ubuntu clone it just launched gparted if you wanted to do any kind of manual partitioning and if you wanted LVM you had to do that on the command line. I wonder if they finally implemented that in the installer.
How long ago did you do that? Ubuntu's had LVM available as a standard partitioning scheme in the GUI setup process for years.
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@dreikin said in ‘Next Gen’ Ubuntu Installer - ELECTRON:
Sure...but then you'd have to use GTK, aka 'C that wishes it was object-oriented'.
I'll take that over "a website that wishes it was a desktop application".