Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile
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@tsaukpaetra
usually is lots of fun.
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@gąska said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@tsaukpaetra
usually is lots of fun.I wouldn't know. I only have a few centuries of simulations to go off of...
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@japonicus said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
If GDPR had been around for longer some of the current facebook data leaking shit might not have happened...
Either that or FB would be facing a fine right now of (a bit over) $1.6B.
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@blakeyrat said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
The problem with this legislation is if I'm in the US and I specifically don't want to deal with anybody in Europe, and my site gives zero indication that I'm willing to deal with anybody in Europe, I can still get hit by a huge fine. Even though fuck Europe.
That would be a surprising outcome, since you're in the US, don't have a European business presence, are providing a service that is specifically not useful in Europe, and not marketing that service to Europeans at all. You might want to move to making sure that personally-identifying information can be properly removed without causing chaos anyway, but that'd just be part of generally being a good steward of the data.
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@julianlam said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@bIakeyrat I like the wild west nature of the internet as much as the next guy, but wouldn't you admit that the days of "running whatever was on that floppy some cool guy handed to you" are over?
GDPR might be a moderate pain to implement, but if it has a chance to increase the general public's awareness of how their private data is used online, then I'll do it even if it means they'll be dragged kicking and screaming into it.GDPR is terrible. It will hurt the little guys and startups, while entrenching the existing data repositories like Facebook. And it won't even prevent the governments from collecting your data, which is what you should really be concerned about.
I agree with blakeyrat, fuck europoors.
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@cartman82 you sound like you think regular EU citizens have ever wanted that law. You should know we are as angry at this cesspool known as Brussels as you are, and for the same reasons (and more).
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@gąska the worst part is, I can even buy the lawmakers' hearts are in the right place (unlike the US ones, who seems to be guided solely by bribes). It's just that they are so out of touch and stupid.
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Imagine how fun the GPDR is for me, who is living in the EU and due to my work have to deal with personal data, including about children. Although I guess the only outcome is that it will be stricter about how we can store personally identifyable information with no real change otherwise.
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@cartman82 said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@gąska the worst part is, I can even buy the lawmakers' hearts are in the right place (unlike the US ones, who seems to be guided solely by bribes).
And you would be wrong.
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@gąska said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@cartman82 said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@gąska the worst part is, I can even buy the lawmakers' hearts are in the right place (unlike the US ones, who seems to be guided solely by bribes).
And you would be wrong.
About the first part, anyway. The second part? Spot on.
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@blakeyrat said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
They're not tied-down and forced to hand over their family photos kicking and screaming. I don't see how this legislation is going to change any of that.
It provides a means for people to rectify their choices. Yes, I put something on the Internet, No, I do not want it there any more. Pretty Simple [as a concept].
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@blakeyrat said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
Fuck those sites. I give them the psuedonym anyway.
me too.
wait.
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Hmm... okay, so y'know how there's slip-and-fall trolls, and car-accident trolls, and ADA trolls, and patent trolls-- leeches who do nothing but engineer a situation where they get to sue someone?
Are there trolls for this law, too? And is OP one of them?
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@lorne-kates said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
Are there trolls for this law, too?
ARE? probably not... WILL BE? certainly!
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@atazhaia said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
Imagine how fun the GPDR is for me, who is living in the EU and due to my work have to deal with personal data, including about children. Although I guess the only outcome is that it will be stricter about how we can store personally identifyable information with no real change otherwise.
Ooh that means you have to make your privacy policy accessible to children!
Say, did you get Dora the Explorer to narrate it yet?
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@ben_lubar said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@julianlam said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
bIakeyrat
who is biakeyrat
I'm not confident, but he might be associated with ben_wubaw.
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@blakeyrat said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
The problem with this legislation is if I'm in the US and I specifically don't want to deal with anybody in Europe, and my site gives zero indication that I'm willing to deal with anybody in Europe, I can still get hit by a huge fine. Even though fuck Europe.
What the fuck are you talking about?
Are you doing business inside the EU? Then you have to abide by the corresponding regulations. Are you not doing business where EU laws applies? Then those laws don't apply!That's like me saying "what do you mean, someone knowing your social security number can steal your whole identity? Sucks to be you". If I'm not doing business with the US, laws about your PII don't apply to me. If I do, guess what, I better not be breaking US laws.
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@pjh I agree with
I'm not sure why deleting accounts is such a big deal.
He made an account, he had a change of heart. You can think of that whatever you want, but going all "fuck off
" on him (not you, personally) isn't more mature.
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@topspin The problem is the legislation is written in such a broad way that it encompasses almost everybody. Even if you conduct business only to locals, even if you don't sell things for money, even if ONE EU citizen decides to open an account because they're curious...
Then according to the legislation you are liable. That's why @blakeyrat mentioned geo blocking Europe, because that's literally the only way to not run afoul.
Even then, there are ways around. Build a foolproof system someone will build a better fool.
That's why NodeBB is doing GDPR, because it's better to be safe. That, and well, we're used worldwide.
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@gąska said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@lorne-kates said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@gąska said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@pjh said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Trolleybus Garage seen by registered users only?
Do you really think our toxicity is limited to the Garbage you shit-sucking cockhole. I hope you get raped by a stuffed gorilla.
Compared to Garage, the rest of the forum is a textbook example of how a perfect community should engage in civil discourse.
If only there was a way to mute a category
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@julianlam said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@topspin The problem is the legislation is written in such a broad way that it encompasses almost everybody.
But surely "almost everybody" means everybody who falls under their jurisdiction in the first place, right?
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@topspin said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@julianlam said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@topspin The problem is the legislation is written in such a broad way that it encompasses almost everybody.
But surely "almost everybody" means everybody who falls under their jurisdiction in the first place, right?
The EU apparently decided that anyone offering services to EU citizens falls under their jurisdiction.
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@lorne-kates said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@gąska said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@pjh said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Trolleybus Garage seen by registered users only?
Do you really think our toxicity is limited to the Garbage you shit-sucking cockhole. I hope you get raped by a stuffed gorilla.
Prepare to be scolded by a German.
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@cartman82 said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@gąska the worst part is, I can even buy the lawmakers' hearts are in the right place (unlike the US ones, who seems to be guided solely by bribes). It's just that they are so out of touch and stupid.
Our government would be a lot better if it really ran on bribes.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
― C.S. Lewis
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@boomzilla said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@cartman82 said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@gąska the worst part is, I can even buy the lawmakers' hearts are in the right place (unlike the US ones, who seems to be guided solely by bribes). It's just that they are so out of touch and stupid.
Our government would be a lot better if it really ran on bribes.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
― C.S. Lewis
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@dkf said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
That would be a surprising outcome,
Read the law. That's what it says.
Everybody worldwide is culpable if a European does business to them, whether or not a reasonable person would say they were offering business to Europeans.
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@topspin said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
What the fuck are you talking about?
My worries about this shitty-ass law written by idiots.
@topspin said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
Are you doing business inside the EU? Then you have to abide by the corresponding regulations.
You're missing the point.
I don't want to be doing business inside the EU.
But unless I specifically block EU IP addresses I could still be accidentally doing business inside the EU. Completely against my will, and completely unknown to me. (How could I know one VISA number was issued in Ireland?)
@topspin said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
That's like me saying "what do you mean, someone knowing your social security number can steal your whole identity? Sucks to be you". If I'm not doing business with the US, laws about your PII don't apply to me. If I do, guess what, I better not be breaking US laws.
Yeah but what if an American comes into your Euro-business, makes a purchase (you never bothered to ask if they were an American, and they never bother to volunteer that information), then a week later the US Government comes after your ass asking for 4% of all your revenue ever. That's what this Euro-law is.
So now you need to hire a bouncer in front of your store to grill everybody who enters and put up a big "no Americans ever" sign. Is that friendly? No. But that's the only solution.
@julianlam said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@topspin The problem is the legislation is written in such a broad way that it encompasses almost everybody. Even if you conduct business only to locals, even if you don't sell things for money, even if ONE EU citizen decides to open an account because they're curious...
Exactly, and a lot of morons in here calling me an idiot have obviously never read it.
@julianlam said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
Then according to the legislation you are liable. That's why @blakeyrat mentioned geo blocking Europe, because that's literally the only way to not run afoul.
Pretty much; although it's also a complete dick move which hurts people who were just using your site for an informational resource.
Think about a site like, say, Fark.com. It's run in the US, but it probably has gobs of Euro-users. 99% of the users just use it to read the headlines and chuckle at the comments, but those who want to can spent an extra $5/month to access more features. Suddenly Fark.com has three choices:
- Spend tons of money complying with this idiotic law, including appointing a "data officer" and all that ridiculous bullshit
- Stop taking money from Europeans, oops, sucks to be you.
- Stop serving the site to Europeans altogether, oops sucks to be you.
This requires Fark.com, and American company about the American news which never once had any intent to sell anything to Europe go way out of their way to spend time and money to "fix" this breach of Euro-law, while simultaneously pissing-off all the Euro-users who wanted to use Fark.com and now can't. Everybody fucking loses.
@julianlam said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
Even then, there are ways around. Build a foolproof system someone will build a better fool.
And as was mentioned upstream, there are going to be trolls who abuse this shitty legislation specifically to levy fines to companies they don't like.
@topspin said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
But surely "almost everybody" means everybody who falls under their jurisdiction in the first place, right?
READ. THE. LAW. YOU. DUMB. SHIT.
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@blakeyrat said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
Yeah but what if an American comes into your Euro-business, makes a purchase (you never bothered to ask if they were an American, and they never bother to volunteer that information), then a week later the US Government comes after your ass asking for 4% of all your revenue ever. That's what this Euro-law is.
You mean like suing me for 5x the world GDP because I used rounded corners, or something like that?
But in which court?
@topspin said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
But surely "almost everybody" means everybody who falls under their jurisdiction in the first place, right?
READ. THE. LAW. YOU. DUMB. SHIT.
And you guys seriously complain that the OP dared to ask to have his account deleted.
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@blakeyrat said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
Maybe if so many of these fine US companies hadn't fucked everyone over so often the law wouldn't have been created?
about the American news
A small selection from today's front page
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@gąska said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
Compared to Garage, the rest of the forum is a textbook example of how a perfect community should engage in civil discourse.
As I see it, this forum is very relaxed anyway, including the garage.
Rarely anyone cares much about what is said here.
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@blakeyrat
But you are perfectly fine with stupid US rules spilling over aren't you? Damn hypocrite bugger.
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@dkf Amen!
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@dkf said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
being a good steward of the data.
Oh no! Too much work! GDPR could force companies to use fucking common sense.
Common sense and basic security practices cover most of the GDPR. And maybe not treating your customers lives as a cash cow.
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@luhmann The problem is as per usual the IT industry as taken the mickey to the point where people are saying "WTF guys".
This is why regulations happen, it is because they take the piss without every thinking whether they should do it
Regulation was going to happen sooner or later, it is going to happen shortly. The House of Lords in the UK are asking for witnesses at the moment to speak there.
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@cartman82 said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
And it won't even prevent the governments from collecting your data
Government enteties are bound too ... Except when they ain't but at least now there is a guide for what is expected. Now it's a free for all.
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@thecpuwizard said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
WILL BE? certainly!
Doubtfully since this is EU not the USA. You can't go to court directly over GDPR. Unless you go to the EU level to complain how a member state doesn't follow the rules.
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@lucas1
Dammit! I agree with Lucas ... Final judgement must be near.
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@blakeyrat said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
Read the law. That's what it says.
But if you don't have a business presence, nobody's going to have much luck enforcing judgements against you. What's more, basic security, data hygiene and not passing data on to others without the customer's explicit consent will actually cover virtually all of it. There's a few other bits such as customers having a right to know what data you've actually got on them (so minimise the amount you hold — if you can — to just what you actually need) to get factual corrections made (do you want to hold wrong data?) and to have it all deleted (as long as they are not in a genuine ongoing business relationship). To fall foul of those, you have to really be intending to be complete assholes or be massively incompetent, and I really see no reason for the law to go easy on jerks, fuckwads and nincompoops. The GDPR might fuck Facebook up the ass, but I really think a true US-only business like, for example, a health insurer can ignore it pretty safely; health insurance markets are rather difference in structure (because totally different laws) between the US and the EU states so there's not many businesses likely to be doing both out of a single base.
Any business that this makes totally non-viable (once the mess of introduction gets past) is the sort of business that views doing things like selling on their customers' data to identity thieves as a core business strategy. If that's you, I don't want to do business with you and nor will anyone else once they find out.
Filed under: It's a good day because I used the word “nincompoops”.
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@luhmann said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
But you are perfectly fine with stupid US rules spilling over aren't you?
No.
@luhmann said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
Damn hypocrite bugger.
Maybe you should wait for the answer before assuming.
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@dkf said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
The GDPR might fuck Facebook up the ass, but I really think a true US-only business like, for example, a health insurer can ignore it pretty safely;
Let's play hypothetical... A US based health insurer provides health insurance to American citizens.
An EU citizen immigrates to the US and obtains dual citizenship.
Said citizen becomes a customer of the health insurer.
According to the GDPR, this health insurer is now providing a service to an EU citizen.
I'm not for or against GDPR, I feel there are arguments on both sides, so I'm on the fence. However, I just feel like there are next to no situations that completely avoid contact with EU member states. There will always be some exception.
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@topspin said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
What the fuck are you talking about?
Are you doing business inside the EU? Then you have to abide by the corresponding regulations. Are you not doing business where EU laws applies? Then those laws don't applyWhat about sites that don't want to do business in the EU but people from the EU visit them? Like this one?
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@polygeekery Everyone will be using VPNs
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@blakeyrat said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
Yeah but what if an American comes into your Euro-business, makes a purchase (you never bothered to ask if they were an American, and they never bother to volunteer that information), then a week later the US Government comes after your ass
Oh! You mean Dodd-Frank!
EDIT: Actually, the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act
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@blakeyrat you already have to do exactly that: if a European comes to your site and buys stuff, you have to pay VAT. That's why sane companies use payment processors who ask about the country of origin and are set up to automatically add VAT to the price.
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On the one hand, it seems dubious that a EU directive would affect a company with no clear relation to the EU, who is not intentionally trying to get European customers.
On the other, it is probably the only way to target companies like Facebook who are considered a real problem.
And I don't doubt the US would pull the same thing if they cared and/or any major companies weren't US-based. Remember the whole "You are an Irish subsidiary of a US company and we'd like you to give us your data please" story a few years back?
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@kt_ said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@blakeyrat you already have to do exactly that: if a European comes to your site and buys stuff, you have to pay VAT. That's why sane companies use payment processors who ask about the country of origin and are set up to automatically add VAT to the price.
No you don't. The European pays 21% duty when importing. Speaking from experience.
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@pleegwat said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@kt_ said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@blakeyrat you already have to do exactly that: if a European comes to your site and buys stuff, you have to pay VAT. That's why sane companies use payment processors who ask about the country of origin and are set up to automatically add VAT to the price.
No you don't. The European pays 21% duty when importing. Speaking from experience.
Not for software.
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@kt_ said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@pleegwat said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@kt_ said in Delete my what.thedailywtf.com profile:
@blakeyrat you already have to do exactly that: if a European comes to your site and buys stuff, you have to pay VAT. That's why sane companies use payment processors who ask about the country of origin and are set up to automatically add VAT to the price.
No you don't. The European pays 21% duty when importing. Speaking from experience.
Not for software.
But hey, I might be confusing this with another EU-bound regulation. :)
