Discussion of NodeBB Updates
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@Polygeekery said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
This one seems intentional and as though he did it exactly as he wished.
It made zero difference to Ben whether it was on or off.
He made a bad judgement but he's not just gone "fuck those guys, I want it on".
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@loopback0 said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
It made zero difference to Ben whether it was on or off.
I don't think that's true. He wrote the code for the option so it could be turned on. He's done other things indicating he personally considers downvotes to be public information.
I understand it's assuming some bad faith, and I don't like doing that, but I'm just considering all the evidence. It doesn't seem to me that this is the first time he's acted as he wished just because he could, and the reactions of others seem to be backing up my impression/recollection.
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@loopback0 it seemed that way to me.
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@heterodox said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
I don't think that's true.
@Polygeekery said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
it seemed that way to me.
I disagree but as none of us know what was actually going on in Ben's head, then it's a pointless discussion so I still propose we move on for now.
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@loopback0 said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
I still propose we move on for now.
Yeah, this is getting to distracting.
!newday
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@heterodox said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
I understand it's assuming some bad faith, and I don't like doing that, but I'm just considering all the evidence. It doesn't seem to me that this is the first time he's acted as he wished just because he could, and the reactions of others seem to be backing up my impression/recollection.
As far as I recall, both the Lounge and Meta threads had people mostly go "yeah sure, whatever", with like one or two exceptions. It wasn't until the option was actually on when people started getting their panties in a bunch.
Might not have been the brightest idea to roll it out without longer consultations, but I can see where @ben_lubar is coming from.
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@Maciejasjmj said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
As far as I recall, both the Lounge and Meta threads had people mostly go "yeah sure, whatever", with like one or two exceptions. It wasn't until the option was actually on when people started getting their panties in a bunch.
@Polygeekery has pointed out a couple times now that the Meta thread was, practically speaking, nonexistent when the option was turned on.
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@heterodox said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Maciejasjmj said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
As far as I recall, both the Lounge and Meta threads had people mostly go "yeah sure, whatever", with like one or two exceptions. It wasn't until the option was actually on when people started getting their panties in a bunch.
@Polygeekery has pointed out a couple times now that the Meta thread was, practically speaking, nonexistent when the option was turned on.
Dunno, wasn't on the forum until the shitstorm was already brewing.
The lounge thread was, though, and my point stands - not many people really opposed the idea too vehemently.
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@Maciejasjmj Well, since you haven't read the preceding and I don't want to rehash all of it, I'll point out only that the drama is not that exposing downvotes is O NOES TERRIBLE but that the EXECUTION of the change was terrible. That's WHY it came after the change, obviously.
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@Maciejasjmj said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
not many people really opposed the idea too vehemently.
True, but how many people does it take to make it a bad idea? Or maybe give people time to think about it and be comfortable with it. It's not like there was a need to rush.
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@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Maciejasjmj said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
not many people really opposed the idea too vehemently.
True, but how many people does it take to make it a bad idea? Or maybe give people time to think about it and be comfortable with it. It's not like there was a need to rush.
Zero people objected to it with a reason other than "someone other than me might theoretically not want this".
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@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
Zero people objected to it with a reason other than "someone other than me might theoretically not want this".
Is that an invalid reason?
Seriously Ben, you could dump my downvote history to a CSV and publish a download link. I could not give a fuck less. But I am not everyone, and I do not think that it is generally a good idea to expose information that was once private. Ever. That is a betrayal of user privacy, even if it is something as stupid as downvote history.
One way to rectify that would have been to dump all downvotes across the board and then expose downvotes moving forward. That would be perfectly acceptable. Not an ideal outcome from my point of view as I put a lot of fucking work in to 6,000 of those. But it would be an acceptable way to go about it.
Which, speaking of, I am also opposed to what you did by dumping all of those stats and publishing them in the Lounge. I could not give a fuck less for myself. But that does not mean I am not opposed to you doing this on behalf of others. It is a shitty thing to do, even if tufty asks for it. It is a violation of user privacy. A really stupid form of user privacy, but a form of user privacy all the same.
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@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Maciejasjmj said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
not many people really opposed the idea too vehemently.
True, but how many people does it take to make it a bad idea? Or maybe give people time to think about it and be comfortable with it. It's not like there was a need to rush.
Zero people objected to it with a reason other than "someone other than me might theoretically not want this".
-takes a deep breath-
What myself and @heterodox and others would really like for you to say is:
"I fucked up, I overstepped, I apologize and I will try to communicate better in the future."
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@Polygeekery said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
"I fucked up, I overstepped, I apologize and I will try to communicate better in the future."
And then actually do it.
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@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
Zero people objected to it with a reason other than "someone other than me might theoretically not want this".
Get out your buzzword bingo card:
From a change management perspective, this change had not been properly socialized among the community. Also, sometimes people don't say what they really think, maybe because they don't realize it themselves. And other people may not speak up at all, especially in public.
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@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
Welcome to my world!
Can we go anywhere we want as long as we don't step on the lawn?
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@Yamikuronue said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@loopback0 I'm concerned about the ongoing pattern of difficulty or unwillingness to communicate, though...
Isn't sucking at communicating part of aspergers symptoms?
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@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
It's not like there was a need to rush
That's what my fiancee says... EVERY TIME.
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@DoctorJones said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
It's not like there was a need to rush
That's what my fiancee says... EVERY TIME.
I am reminded of what one of my favorite YouTube personalities (AvE) says, "So I asked the wife: Do you want a quickie, or the whole two minutes?"
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@Polygeekery said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@tufty said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Polygeekery Fuck you, asshole.
Ok lucas.
No no no--- GodEmperor is Lucas' alt.
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@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
True, but how many people does it take to make it a bad idea?
Currently, 535.
(I'll try to stop shitting up the thread, but no promises)
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@Lorne-Kates No shit head. It is another Alts, I know who it is but is isn't me.
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@lucas1 said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Lorne-Kates No shit head. It is another Alts, I know who it is but is isn't me.
Look, I know who your alt is. It isn't my fault if you get so blackout drunk you can't remember.
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@Lorne-Kates You realise that saying I am such a drunk indicated I can't have alts?
If I am such a pisshead how can I handle switching between accounts so well? It is very unlikely I can do it.
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@lucas1 said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Lorne-Kates You realise that saying I am such a drunk indicated I can't have alts?
If I am such a pisshead how can I handle switching between accounts so well? It is very unlikely I can do it.
You probably have an incognito tab, and some post-it notes stuck on the monitor to remind you, Memento-style. Even a brain-pickled droolbag like you can figure that out. And when you get too drunk, GodEmperor just conveniently "isn't online" that day.
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no post-it notes over the monitors, sorry that hypothesis (if you can call it that is disproved).
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@Tsaukpaetra It the keyboard for my mac that I barely use. I just moved my whole lounge around to suit my new GF. So everything is a mess.
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@lucas1 said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
So everything is a mess.
Well I hope you had fun at least...
/me isn't jealous at all...
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@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
Zero people objected to it with a reason other than "someone other than me might theoretically not want this".
Get out your buzzword bingo card:
From a change management perspective, this change had not been properly socialized among the community. Also, sometimes people don't say what they really think, maybe because they don't realize it themselves. And other people may not speak up at all, especially in public.
Last I checked, this change was properly socialized among the community when you made it a habit to post screenshots of your mod downvote window or just name whomever downvoted a post any time someone in your fan club asked you to.
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@heterodox said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
It doesn't seem to me that this is the first time he's acted as he wished just because he could
I think it's completely hilarious that it's only the self-styled libertarians who find something to object to in that.
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@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
Zero people objected to it with a reason other than "someone other than me might theoretically not want this".
Asshole-privilege removal resisted via concern trolling? Surely not.
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@Fox said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
Last I checked, this change was properly socialized among the community when you made it a habit to post screenshots of your mod downvote window or just name whomever downvoted a post any time someone in your fan club asked you to.
Apart from the "me against them" rhetoric, this is actually a valid point. But please keep the personal feuds in the garage. (@flabdablet, looking at you as well.)
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@Lorne-Kates said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
True, but how many people does it take to make it a bad idea?
Currently, 535.
(I'll try to stop shitting up the thread, but no promises)
Hah! It only takes 218 in the House and 60 in the Senate plus one President! 279 FTW!
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@fbmac said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Yamikuronue said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@loopback0 I'm concerned about the ongoing pattern of difficulty or unwillingness to communicate, though...
Isn't sucking at communicating part of aspergers symptoms?
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@flabdablet said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@heterodox said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
It doesn't seem to me that this is the first time he's acted as he wished just because he could
I think it's completely hilarious that it's only the self-styled libertarians who find something to object to in that.
I'm not a self-styled libertarian, as far as I know.
Also, who asked you.
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@lucas1 said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
no post-it notes over the monitors, sorry that hypothesis (if you can call it that is disproved).
Missing a newspaper to be taken seriously.
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Being serious for a moment, a lot of drama is going on here. This board has been full of dramas, lately. What's happening to us?
Sure, I concur with @Polygeekery, downvotes where private, they were never supposed to be made public. People have downvoted stuff based on that assumption. So yeah, as discussed in the thread, I'm all for purging the downvotes and then making them public. If someone expresses this kind a wish, their downvotes could be kept (i.e., excluded from the purge). But please don't make public stuff that was supposed to be private.
And no, making polls is not an option. There are people who ragequit, there are people who come here sporadically and simply aren't around to take a part in the poll. Just do it this way. Purge. Purge. Purge!
https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/rick-morty-purge-dancing.gif
On the other hand, what Ben did does not surprise me. Let's be honest, @ben_lubar, you've been a kinda shitty at communicating for a while. Nothing wrong with that, this is the first time it backfired and shit! it wasn't even that of a big deal.
So the question is to the whole community: are you ok with that? You have been this whole time, why change your minds right now?
I say, let it go.
http://chrisjgood.com/nothing_to_see_here.jpg
Further: @flabdablet, @tufty, @Polygeekery, @Fox, please leave this shit in the garage. It's infuriating that you keep taking it with you to all of the fucking threads, be it , meta or elsewhere. What happens in garage should stay in the garage.
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@kt_ I don't think we should purge the downvotes because that changes the votes people have made on those posts.
They've not been completely private up to this point (as was pointed out) and I know that not every single person who's ever downvoted is here but unless I've missed something we've not had anyone objecting to theirs going public, just:
- people not bothered if theirs are public
- people assuming other people might be bothered
IMO we either make them public as they are (no deletion) or leave them all private.
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@kt_ said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
Further: @flabdablet, @tufty, @Polygeekery, @Fox, please leave this shit in the garage. It's infuriating that you keep taking it with you to all of the fucking threads, be it , meta or elsewhere. What happens in garage should stay in the garage.
I am trying to, as evidenced by my latest interactions with them. I have not been the cause of garage leakage for a long time, to my memory.
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@kt_ said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
What happens in garage should stay in the garage.
Tell that to the guy who literally flips the entire forum a double bird with every single post.
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@heterodox said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
I'm not a self-styled libertarian, as far as I know.
Where do you get your libertarian styled these days? Asking for a friend.
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@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@heterodox said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
I'm not a self-styled libertarian, as far as I know.
Where do you get your libertarian styled these days? Asking for a friend.
I assume to @flabdablet libertarians are styled like this:
(All right, I'll stop; that was just too good of an opening to pass up.)
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@heterodox said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
that was just too good of an opening to pass up.
#RapeCulture
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@flabdablet said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@kt_ said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
What happens in garage should stay in the garage.
Tell that to the guy who literally flips the entire forum a double bird with every single post.
Take it to the garage, you Australian asshole.
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@kt_ said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
Being serious for a moment, a lot of drama is going on here. This board has been full of dramas, lately. What's happening to us?
Sure, I concur with @Polygeekery, downvotes where private, they were never supposed to be made public. People have downvoted stuff based on that assumption. So yeah, as discussed in the thread, I'm all for purging the downvotes and then making them public. If someone expresses this kind a wish, their downvotes could be kept (i.e., excluded from the purge). But please don't make public stuff that was supposed to be private.I wish we could do polls. Now would be a great time for that functionality.
I think most of us can agree that exposing information that once had an expectation of privacy is not the right thing to do to users. It appears that those who disagree are in the very minor minority on this.
So, how about we come up with our options and start a new thread for voting. One option per post, people can upvote or downvote each option and after a week we compile that information and roll with it. Any objection to that idea?
It seems that the two most common opinions are:
#1, burn all the downvotes and make them public moving forward
#2, status quoA distant #3, and what I am leaning towards: burn all the downvotes and disable downvotes entirely. The reason I like this option is it forces people to actually respond to the post if they want to show their disapproval. Other than that, your only other option is to flag the post if it is bad enough. Along those lines, I think that there should be an option to disable flagging privileges for users who abuse the flags and create annoyance for the mods and admins.
Any opinions on these options?
Addendum:
@loopback0 said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
#4, leave all downvotes in place and make them public anyway
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@Polygeekery there are sites that you can create polls and link it
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@fbmac that does not have enough ery for us.
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@Polygeekery said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
Take it to the garage, you Australian asshole.
Your Depends are full, grandpa.