WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else
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@dcon said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Gern_Blaanston Weird. Both my W10 and W11 machines go to the Settings page.
My W10 and W11 do not.
Is your system an upgrade from something before W10? (mine at both clean installs)
No. W10 and W11 are clean install from an .ISO obtained from Microsoft's official download page.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised. My first installation of Windows was Win 3.0 in 1990, and it has always been ... weird.
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@Gern_Blaanston I just found I can get that page too - if I type in the path at the top. Clicking 'System' always goes to Settings
edit: but only on W10. When I enter that in the path on W11, it also goes to Settings
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@dcon said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Gern_Blaanston I just found I can get that page too - if I type in the path at the top. Clicking 'System' always goes to Settings
edit: but only on W10. When I enter that in the path on W11, it also goes to Settings
Windows: 30 years of consistently being inconsistent.
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So, unlike last time, where I thought a Windows update might have borked up the AIO on the desktop (that I'm planning on now giving to a friend), this time, a Windows update failed to fully install that did break my laptop:
- Every time I would restart or shut down, it would claim it was getting updates ready.
- It constantly said there were no new Windows Updates to apply, despite one or two patch Tuesdays coming and going.
- Nothing from the Microsoft Store would update or install.
- It couldn't update integrated graphics drivers (update failed early with no reason given) and screwed up the app that is installed with it (AMD Adrenaline Edition).
- It couldn't update dedicated graphics drivers (update failed with no reason given) but didn't break that app (GeForce Experience).
- It couldn't update system BIOS (update failed early with no reason given).
- File Explorer was just completely fucked (in some folders, right-clicking anywhere would crash either the window or Explorer as a whole).
And since the laptop is a Dell, the BIOS update is supposed to show up in Windows Update, and it did after I reinstalled Windows. But it took extra effort to do so, as the built in "reset" options just wouldn't work, claiming I needed repair media (which it claimed it could make, but if the OS was already messed up, I couldn't trust anything it gave me).
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@ChaosTheEternal said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
I reinstalled Windows.
...and then the cycle began all over again?
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@Gern_Blaanston Ah, I see someone in not-the-US forgot to set the paper format to A4 again?
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@DogsB yes.
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Status: It costs $77 to get the superior product.
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@Tsaukpaetra That or you save $215 (though you still have to install linux yourself)
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@Tsaukpaetra no it costs either 180$ or 215$ or 285$ to have grossly inferior products.
pick your desktop and go to town. https://fedoraproject.org/spins/ :P
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@Tsaukpaetra why do they offer “FreeDOS”?
Exactly nobody runs that. Either offer linux or just “install OS yourself”. This makes no sense.
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@accalia Welcome back, I guess
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@accalia Welcome back
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
Status: It costs $77 to get the superior product.
Avoiding Windows 11 is well worth $77. Maybe more.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra why do they offer “FreeDOS”?
Exactly nobody runs that. Either offer linux or just “install OS yourself”. This makes no sense.Especially on a workstation class machine. I think someone is trolling.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra why do they offer “FreeDOS”?
Exactly nobody runs that. Either offer linux or just “install OS yourself”. This makes no sense.Especially on a workstation class machine. I think someone is trolling.
nah m8, they're just putting freeDOS on because they can't sell the PC without an operating system and by selling a DOS system that boots and allows the buyer to install any linux or BSD over it they don't have to deal with complaints about configuring linux "wrong"
edit: orr complaints about choosing the wrong distro or WM/DE i guess too
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@accalia said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra why do they offer “FreeDOS”?
Exactly nobody runs that. Either offer linux or just “install OS yourself”. This makes no sense.Especially on a workstation class machine. I think someone is trolling.
nah m8, they're just putting freeDOS on because they can't sell the PC without an operating system and by selling a DOS system that boots and allows the buyer to install any linux or BSD over it they don't have to deal with complaints about configuring linux "wrong"
edit: orr complaints about choosing the wrong distro or WM/DE i guess too
For that matter, I would have figured they'd list off "EFI Shell" as an OS and not bother....
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@accalia said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra why do they offer “FreeDOS”?
Exactly nobody runs that. Either offer linux or just “install OS yourself”. This makes no sense.Especially on a workstation class machine. I think someone is trolling.
nah m8, they're just putting freeDOS on because they can't sell the PC without an operating system
How is selling with a (definitely) wrong OS better than selling with no OS?
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@accalia said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra why do they offer “FreeDOS”?
Exactly nobody runs that. Either offer linux or just “install OS yourself”. This makes no sense.Especially on a workstation class machine. I think someone is trolling.
nah m8, they're just putting freeDOS on because they can't sell the PC without an operating system
How is selling with a (definitely) wrong OS better than selling with no OS?
not better, but there's laws in a lot of jurisdictions that prevent selling a fully assembled computer without an OS. it's a leftover from the lobbying from the 90s when windows was establishing their monopoly. they got laws passed to make it illegal to sell OS-less Computers, then got contracts with companies saying the only OS they could preinstall was theirs.
the contracts are all expired and invalid now, but the law remains. and it's always cheaper to workaround a law than to change it.
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@accalia so the Windows tax was quite literal.
Lobbying money well spent.
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@topspin pretty much. thats why for the longest time you could not find a laptop or premade computer without windows, so you were paying for the windows license even when you didn't want to.
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@accalia said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@accalia said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra why do they offer “FreeDOS”?
Exactly nobody runs that. Either offer linux or just “install OS yourself”. This makes no sense.Especially on a workstation class machine. I think someone is trolling.
nah m8, they're just putting freeDOS on because they can't sell the PC without an operating system
How is selling with a (definitely) wrong OS better than selling with no OS?
not better, but there's laws in a lot of jurisdictions that prevent selling a fully assembled computer without an OS. it's a leftover from the lobbying from the 90s when windows was establishing their monopoly. they got laws passed to make it illegal to sell OS-less Computers, then got contracts with companies saying the only OS they could preinstall was theirs.
the contracts are all expired and invalid now, but the law remains. and it's always cheaper to workaround a law than to change it.
I'd be interested in seeing references to those laws. I'm finding a moderate amount of data to the contrary when I try to search with Google.
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-to-sell-a-computer-without-an-operating-system
And even from probably the most anti-Microsoft source in existence, back in the heyday of the monopoly (2000):
Microsoft published a 'naked PC' document on its site, urging its OEMs to protect users from themselves by 'politely declining' to sell them machines without operating systems preinstalled. Machines without operating systems don't work, it pithily observed, and by buying them like this users were laying themselves open to the perils of pirate software, viruses and tech support hell.
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@izzion said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
Machines without operating systems don't work
The same can be said for machines with Windows
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Status: $deity DAMNIT!
What decade is this?!?!
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
What decade is this?!?!
The Windows decade, which locks files that are open
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
What decade is this?!?!
The Windows decade, which locks files that are open
It's fine that it locks open files. That's a potentially useful thing to have. IF it has a mechanism to resolve the conflict. Say, a button that would poke at the process holding that handle, followed by a kill button if poking don't work.
Windows tends to turn "might be nice to haves" into "Well now it's ruined for everyone because the thoughts didn't form correctly."
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Burn it to the ground and salt the earth!
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@DogsB I keep saying it: The EU fine billions weren’t enough.
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@izzion said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
Reading through the related support document (once I found it), it looks like they're going to take 4 years to stop distributing new drivers via Windows Update. Existing ones will remain and you will still be able to install third party drivers from elsewhere for however long they let you. The manufacturers can also write a helper app that will be automatically installed from the Microsoft Store. (That part isn't new; nVidia's video drivers install their utilities from the Store by default now, for example.)
PS: I hate the new print dialog. For the people who do need to mess with the actual printer settings often it's a pain in the butt. At least we can override it for (ugh) "legacy Win32" programs via the usual registry or Group Policy settings, but for "modern" programs you're stuck hoping they allowed you to Print With System Dialog.
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@DogsB said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
Burn it to the ground and salt the earth!
They've been saying for a while that this new "Outlook
Express" was going to replace the current Mail/Calendar/etc. app. I believe I first heard about it last year sometime, but I can't find a solid corroborating post. Might have been on a podcast.
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@Parody said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@DogsB said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
Burn it to the ground and salt the earth!
They've been saying for a while that this new "Outlook
Express" was going to replace the current Mail/Calendar/etc. app. I believe I first heard about it last year sometime, but I can't find a solid corroborating post. Might have been on a podcast.I tried it. Immediately abandoned because it failed to add a secondary email account that I actually do work out of.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
email account that I actually do work out of.
You actually do work?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Parody said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@DogsB said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
Burn it to the ground and salt the earth!
They've been saying for a while that this new "Outlook
Express" was going to replace the current Mail/Calendar/etc. app. I believe I first heard about it last year sometime, but I can't find a solid corroborating post. Might have been on a podcast.I tried it. Immediately abandoned because it failed to add a secondary email account that I actually do work out of.
It must be said, however, that your experiences with computers in general would probably fall under the heading of "extreme outliers" in data science.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
It's fine that it locks open files. That's a potentially useful thing to have.
[citation needed]
The feature has been nothing but a constant thorn in my side.
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@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
...and then the cycle began all over again?
Originally, I was gonna make a comment like "give it a month, then sure" but last night, I damn near thought it was going to have the same issue, because it immediately went about downloading Windows updates after starting it up, and with only Task Manager and background apps started, one of the updates was just stuck at 5% downloading (the other two were at "press to install") and Task Manager said the ethernet was idle (no sending or receiving).
So, I figured, kick it out of the stupid and just restart, but with Windows 11 there is no "restart without doing updates" option, so it immediately went into the black screen claiming "updates were underway". One hard power-off later, and when I started back up, it went back to supposedly trying to get the update again (and the other two still just said "Install"), so I kicked the "ignore updates for a week" button and I'll probably have to bring it back to work and try to get it to update there (or blow it out again because Windows 11 just doesn't fucking work right).
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@ChaosTheEternal That's weird. I've got options for both restart/shutdown with/without update on my Win11 machine right out of the box.
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@ChaosTheEternal said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
one of the updates was just stuck at 5% downloading
Don't worry, it then sits at 100% for a long time too. So far, on all my machines (W10 and W11), the update has taken a long time. It has eventually finished...
One hard power-off later
Oh, you're now...
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
email account that I actually do work out of.
You actually do work?
Reportedly, yes.
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@error said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
It's fine that it locks open files. That's a potentially useful thing to have.
[citation needed]
The feature has been nothing but a constant thorn in my side.
I said "potentially".
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Status: Set up a batch of 5 PCs.
... Dafuq?
Oh. Thanks OneDriveMeUpTheWall!
Ended up deleting 114 duplicate links of MothaFuckin' Edge.
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@dcon said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@ChaosTheEternal said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
One hard power-off later
Oh, you're now...
Just decided to say "screw it" and now I'm reinstalling from a plain Windows 11 Pro ISO instead of a Dell recovery ISO.
Once that finishes and all Windows updates go ahead and install, then I'll go ahead and get set back up to hopefully where I was Monday evening before I copied like 100GB of stuff back onto it.
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So, the IT guy at the office just gave me some interesting info. This second reinstall is not my fault.
Apparently, when he did the reinstall with the Dell image instead of vanilla Windows, it "kinda" set the main drive to be encrypted, but didn't actually try to encrypt it, so the Windows Updates supposedly couldn't download/install with the drive pending encryption.
This time, the drive isn't in that mixed state, apparently, and all the Windows updates have been applied, so everything should be good.
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@ChaosTheEternal said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
So, the IT guy at the office just gave me some interesting info. This second reinstall is not my fault.
Apparently, when he did the reinstall with the Dell image instead of vanilla Windows, it "kinda" set the main drive to be encrypted, but didn't actually try to encrypt it, so the Windows Updates supposedly couldn't download/install with the drive pending encryption.
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@ChaosTheEternal said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
it "kinda" set the main drive to be encrypted, but didn't actually try to encrypt it, so the Windows Updates supposedly couldn't download/install with the drive pending encryption
I call handwaving. A not-activated BitLocker partition hasn't stopped me from doing updates (including feature updates) in years.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
OneDriveMeUpTheWall
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we have left in the bug that increased performance.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
I call handwaving.
I'm just -ily relaying what was told to me, but no matter the real reason, at some point, it boils down to Windows 11 jank around Windows Updates for both times I had to reinstall.